Derrick Johnson bashers

[Bizwah]

Bizwah has been making sense on these boards for years.

Thanks a lot Chief.

That means a lot coming from you.

By the way.......good to "hear" from you again. I haven't seen you post enough on the boards.

 

[Chief]

You mean 11 months.

There's more than one board, kid.

Hence, "boards."

 

[jobberone]

Antrel Rolle, CB, Miami is probably best defensive player. Probably best CB
Derrick Johnson, OLB, Texas possibly best LB; Merriman may be better
Dan Cody, DE may turn out to be best defensive player; low risk pick
Shawne Merriman (jr.), OLB/DE, Maryland some say he's the best
Adam Jones (jr.), CB, West Virginia could be sleeper of draft
Marcus Spears, DE, LSU could be best too; very good risk here too
Travis Johnson, DT, Florida State another prime defensive player
Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn another first round CB
Shaun Cody, DT, USC most versatile DL in draft
Pollack less risky but IMO not as good...could make everyone sorry
he falls low first round though

You think DJ is the best and a lot of people agree. But we'll see three to four years from now who got the best bang for there buck.

 

[jterrell]

It's pretty clear that Derrick Johnson bashers fall into one of three camps:

1. Those who haven't watched enough Texas football to have an informed opinion

2. Those who do not like the Longhorns

3. Those who have no ability whatsoever to identify football talent

Johnson is the best defensive prospect in this draft, and quite frankly, second isn't very close. Passing on him at 11 would be insane.

These are the kind of silly statements that get people flat embarassed.
You are certianly entitles to your opinion and evaluation but to expect everyone to be on the same page is rather childish and shallow.

1. I know watch plenty of UT football. It is probably around 6 gamers per season so 18 games including DJ as a Longhorn.

2. I have nothing against UT at all(and root for them every bowl season to win) and thought RW was absolutely a great prospect last year.

3. I have plenty of a track record of evaluating talent. I also have enough history to know DJ is from Waco and has a family lineage of good athletes. That he came into college at 215 pounds and actually played a lot of different positions in Waco.

I have been back and forth on DJ admittedly. He looks allw orld one game then the next he looks rather pedestrian. He has world class speed from sideline to sideline but does not attack directly upfield very often. He does make backfield stops on sweeps because he closes so fast. He has a great punch the ball move that causes fumbles. He has the wingspan to hold another 15 pound and get to 250 or so.

The negatives though are very real. He is very inconsistent. He is more finesse than power. His game changing plays are all speed oriented and on the next level everyone is faster.

DJ is undoubtedly a starting caliber LB in the NFL. He will almost assuredly make the all-rookie team. The question is where does he rank. Did he make more big plays than say Antrel Rolle? No. Not even close. Rolle was used all over because teams simply didnt bother testing him at CB so he actually blitzed and had more sacks more than DJ. Where does he rank just at LB? I like Burnett of Tennessee better because he is more physical. I also like Merriman better because he is much bigger and has pure rush skills.

If you want to use a 4-3 zone defense DJ is an ideal player but we aren't running that and I dont want to ever see any team run that. It played out in the mid 90's because that speed only works if you have enough guys to rotate to keep everyone fresh and with the cap no one does.

I do absolutely want to draft Rod Wright from UT as a DT. He has been bothered by inuries but has enough strength, quickness and size to be a dominant pro player. He didnt come out but if he did I would have welcomed him at 11 so this is not a bias against UT.

 

[BulletBob]

Maybe we should just disband this board.


Afterall, wick is the only one who knows jack**** about football.

Thou that hasn't bowed at the altar of wick shalt be smited.

There is something about the word, "smite" that just makes me ...



... conjures up immediate images from The Holy Grail.

 

[Fan Since 77]

These are the kind of silly statements that get people flat embarassed.
You are certianly entitles to your opinion and evaluation but to expect everyone to be on the same page is rather childish and shallow.

1. I know watch plenty of UT football. It is probably around 6 gamers per season so 18 games including DJ as a Longhorn.

2. I have nothing against UT at all(and root for them every bowl season to win) and thought RW was absolutely a great prospect last year.

3. I have plenty of a track record of evaluating talent. I also have enough history to know DJ is from Waco and has a family lineage of good athletes. That he came into college at 215 pounds and actually played a lot of different positions in Waco.

I have been back and forth on DJ admittedly. He looks allw orld one game then the next he looks rather pedestrian. He has world class speed from sideline to sideline but does not attack directly upfield very often. He does make backfield stops on sweeps because he closes so fast. He has a great punch the ball move that causes fumbles. He has the wingspan to hold another 15 pound and get to 250 or so.

The negatives though are very real. He is very inconsistent. He is more finesse than power. His game changing plays are all speed oriented and on the next level everyone is faster.

DJ is undoubtedly a starting caliber LB in the NFL. He will almost assuredly make the all-rookie team. The question is where does he rank. Did he make more big plays than say Antrel Rolle? No. Not even close. Rolle was used all over because teams simply didnt bother testing him at CB so he actually blitzed and had more sacks more than DJ. Where does he rank just at LB? I like Burnett of Tennessee better because he is more physical. I also like Merriman better because he is much bigger and has pure rush skills.

If you want to use a 4-3 zone defense DJ is an ideal player but we aren't running that and I dont want to ever see any team run that. It played out in the mid 90's because that speed only works if you have enough guys to rotate to keep everyone fresh and with the cap no one does.

I do absolutely want to draft Rod Wright from UT as a DT. He has been bothered by inuries but has enough strength, quickness and size to be a dominant pro player. He didnt come out but if he did I would have welcomed him at 11 so this is not a bias against UT.

This post is greatness. God bless you.

 

[wick]

I have been back and forth on DJ admittedly. He looks allw orld one game then the next he looks rather pedestrian.

The negatives though are very real. He is very inconsistent.

Please cite specific games to back up this claim.

DJ is undoubtedly a starting caliber LB in the NFL. He will almost assuredly make the all-rookie team. The question is where does he rank. Did he make more big plays than say Antrel Rolle? No. Not even close.

Both players had one interception this season. Johnson added nine forced fumbles.

What you've done is splice together some half-remembered snippets of action to fabricate a mediocre career that never happened. I suggest you leave this type of stuff to those more qualified.

 

[silverbear]

DJ sucks, like the rest of the longhorns

Somehow, this observation worries me... it seems to me that if anybody would be an expert on the subject of "sucking", it would be YOU, so your criticisms have the ring of expertise to them...

 

[wick]

Somehow, this observation worries me... it seems to me that if anybody would be an expert on the subject of "sucking", it would be YOU, so your criticisms have the ring of expertise to them...

You sound like a middle-aged, creaky kneed golfer from the Shenandoah valley I used to know.

 

[jterrell]

Please cite specific games to back up this claim.



Both players had one interception this season. Johnson added nine forced fumbles.

What you've done is splice together some half-remembered snippets of action to fabricate a mediocre career that never happened. I suggest you leave this type of stuff to those more qualified.

DJ was mediocre against Kansas, Texas Tech and in the Rose Bowl this year. He was also making tackles against Arkansas where Darrius Howard was shoving him forward for a gain of a couple of yards after contact. He was very, very good against the Aggies and OSU... and he was certianly good if not great against OU. Peterson was killing the Longhorns lead by DJ but DJ was at least making tackles. His DL got beat up so I give him a pass there the way I do Cedric Benson.

Of his quoted 130 tackles about half were actually assists. UT had a weird scheme where they started about week 4 counting assists as full tackles though noting if you read the box scores it was an assist. Dont ask me why.

And where did I say anything about Picks? I stated teams didnt throw on Rolle so Miami started using him as a rover and blitzer. I mentionned sacks. Rolle shut down Larry Fitzgerald last year so he already had cover skins on the wall.
But let me guess. Now DJ can start and play CB too. Can he be a cheerleader too? What about owner?

The only fabrications here are your fantasies about DJ which are getting pretty scary. I hope the guy has got a restraining order against you in the works.

My statements were very fair and will match most scouting reports you read even if they are less glowing. I have certianly taken into consideration his possible role here as an OLB and he doesn't seem to fit well at all.

But feel free to show me your paycheck from an NFL team as a scout since you seem to think you are more qualified.

And if you want to really argue Texas football feel free to engage me there. I am fairly certian I know more about just about every player on that team than you. I followed most them before they signed with UT and can tell you have of those guys fallback schools and high school positions.

 

[Champsheart]

What you've done is splice together some half-remembered snippets of action to fabricate a mediocre career that never happened. I suggest you leave this type of stuff to those more qualified.

You have got to be kidding?

Just so you know I have watched UT games every chance I get. Probably 20 over the last 3 years, and I would say JTerrells post is right on the mark, and extremely accurate.

If your panties are so in a knot over DJ that you can not see he has some flaws by watching him play, which by the way all players do, then honestly you have no credibility what so ever to act like you are more qualified.

Get over yourself. You are a member of a board, and a Football fan, not a Professional Scout!

What a joke!

 

[wick]

DJ was mediocre against Kansas, Texas Tech and in the Rose Bowl this year.

The Rose Bowl and Tech were not his greatest games, but he did have three pressures against Tech and a forced fumble against Michigan. He had three tackles for loss and three pass breakups against Kansas...not sure where you're coming from there.

He was also making tackles against Arkansas where Darrius Howard was shoving him forward for a gain of a couple of yards after contact.

Howard had eight carries for 19 yards.

Of his quoted 130 tackles about half were actually assists. UT had a weird scheme where they started about week 4 counting assists as full tackles though noting if you read the box scores it was an assist. Dont ask me why.

I won't because it's not true, as is becoming a pattern with you. Texas lists the late games just like the first four: solo, assisted, total.

And where did I say anything about Picks? I stated teams didnt throw on Rolle so Miami started using him as a rover and blitzer. I mentionned sacks.

You said Johnson was not even close to Rolle in the big-play department. Johnson forced 10 turnovers last year. Rolle had one interception and did not set the NCAA record for forced fumbles in a season, so I know he's somewhere south of Johnson's total. Where's the slam dunk evidence in Rolle's favor?

And if you want to really argue Texas football feel free to engage me there. I am fairly certian I know more about just about every player on that team than you.

Doubtful. As proven in this thread, you don't even know what you think you remember.

 

[silverbear]

DJ is undoubtedly a starting caliber LB in the NFL. He will almost assuredly make the all-rookie team. The question is where does he rank. Did he make more big plays than say Antrel Rolle? No. Not even close.

And yet, it was DJ, not Antrel, who set the NCAA record for most fumbles caused in a single season...

I guess forcing fumbles doesn't qualify as a big play in your world, eh??

Let's stop going with subjective opinion, and start looking at statistical FACTS:

2004: 12 games, 130 tackles (10.8 per game), 19 tackles for loss (1.58 per game)... 2 sacks, 10 quarterback hurries, 1 kick blocked... 9 forced fumbles (NCAA record), 1 fumble recovered, 2 interceptions... 8 passes defensed...

Career: 50 games, 453 tackles (9.6 per game), 67 tackles for loss (1.34 per game)... 10.5 sacks, 9 interceptions... 12 fumbles cause, 5 fumbles recovered, 1 blocked kick...

Contrast that to Shawne Merriman's stats:

2004: 11 games, 85 tackles (7.7 per game), 17 tackles for loss (1.55 per game)... 8.5 sacks, 2 interceptions... couldn't find any numbers on forced fumbles, fumbles recovered, quarterback hurries or passes defensed... you'd suspect that he'd have more hurries than DJ, but not nearly as many passes defensed, because the Terps just didn't ask him to drop back into coverage as often as Johnson did...

Career: 38 games played, 189 tackles (4.9 per game), 32.5 tackles for losses (.86 per game), 22 sacks, 2 ints...

So, you say that DJ "misses a lot of tackles", yet he has averaged almost TWICE AS MANY tackles per game as the linebacker you seem to prefer...
DJ has had more tackles for loss per game, too... yeah, Merriman IS the better pass-rusher, but that's the ONLY phase of his game where he's demonstrably superior to Johnson... in every other category, DJ blows him away...

Now, I like Merriman, and since I don't think that Johnson will be on the board at 11, Shawne is one of the players I hope the Boys are targeting... I'm just pointing out that if you apply the criticisms you level at DJ on the player you profess to prefer, DJ comes out on top...

It all boils down to what you want, a pass rushing hybrid standup DE/OLB, or a true linebacker who is every bit as effective dropping back into coverage...

All I'm saying is your criticisms of Derrick Johnson don't stand up to scrutiny... yeah, he misses some tackles, but EVERYBODY misses a tackle now and again... even our own Roy Williams, who has a major reputation as a hitter, whiffs on the odd tackle... and so does Shawne Merriman...

 

[silverbear]

You sound like a middle-aged, creaky kneed golfer from the Shenandoah valley I used to know.

He sounds like a heck of a guy... but bless you for referring to me as "middle aged"...

 

[silverbear]

Of his quoted 130 tackles about half were actually assists.

73 unassisted tackles, 57 assists... that sounds like somewhat less than half of his tackles...

And a fairly high percentage of Merriman's tackles were assists, too-- 125 unassisted tackles for his career, 64 assisted... so DJ averaged 56 per cent unassisted tackles, while Merriman averaged about 65 per cent unassisted tackles... for that matter, just about EVERYBODY'S tackle total includes a high percentage of assists...

And where did I say anything about Picks? I stated teams didnt throw on Rolle so Miami started using him as a rover and blitzer. I mentionned sacks. Rolle shut down Larry Fitzgerald last year so he already had cover skins on the wall.
But let me guess. Now DJ can start and play CB too. Can he be a cheerleader too? What about owner?

Now you're just spewing garbage because you're pissed off... let's remember, YOU were the one who said that Antrel Rolle made more BIG PLAYS than Derrick Johnson... given that, it is completely legitimate to note that DJ actually had as many ints as your stud "cover corner" did...

This is not to denigrate Rolle's skills, but rather a rebuttal to a specious, specific assertion YOU made about both players' big play abilities... I'd rebut that assertion at greater length, but for some reason Miami doesn't put defensive stats up on their website the way most college teams do, so I just can't seem to find the appropriate numbers... however, you are welcome to document just how many "big plays" Rolle made last year; as for DJ, I count 19 tackles for loss, 9 forced fumbles, 1 blocked kick, 2 sacks and 1 interception... that's 32 "big plays", in 12 games...

You should know that I consider you to be a good, knowledgeable football fan about 99 per cent of the time, but some of the observations you've made in the course of your critique of Derrick Johnson just don't square with the facts... this suggests that you're allowing you bias to overrule your judgement...

 

[hank2k]

Bear, would you agree that Merriman is a better pass rusher than Johnson? To say otherwise is speculation , not proof ,IMHO. If we go 3-4 ,thats what hell be doing most of the time anyway , right ? If we stay 4-3, DE not OLB would be the big need. Merriman projects to a 4-3 DE ,Johnson doesnt. And off the top of your head ,how many great NFL pass rushers were mainly drop into coverage guys in college??

 

[Hoovie]

yeah, Merriman IS the better pass-rusher, but that's the ONLY phase of his game where he's demonstrably superior to Johnson... in every other category, DJ blows him away...

Did you even bother to read his posts hank?

DJ 6'4" 230
Merriman 6'4" 245

Merriman would be a bit of a undersized DE in a 4-3

 

[silverbear]

Bear, would you agree that Merriman is a better pass rusher than Johnson?

Absolutely... however, that is the ONLY area of linebacker play in which he is superior to DJ...

I didn't say I didn't like Merriman, in fact I do-- a lot... I was merely responding to the argument that Merriman was a better linebacker than Johnson is... he simply isn't...

If you want a pure linebacker, you want DJ... if you want a pass rusher, you want Merriman... the Boys could actually use both this year...

 

[silverbear]

Did you even bother to read his posts hank?

DJ 6'4" 230
Merriman 6'4" 245

Merriman would be a bit of a undersized DE in a 4-3

Merriman was actually up to a little over 270 at the combines, and it didn't seem to hurt his agility any... similarly, DJ was up to a little over 240, and he also showed fine mobility...

To be honest, comparing Merriman to DJ is kind of asinine, because they're two VERY different players, with entirely different skill sets... my response was made in rebuttal to the claim that Johnson "missed a lot of tackles"...

 

[jterrell]

The Rose Bowl and Tech were not his greatest games, but he did have three pressures against Tech and a forced fumble against Michigan. He had three tackles for loss and three pass breakups against Kansas...not sure where you're coming from there.



Howard had eight carries for 19 yards.



I won't because it's not true, as is becoming a pattern with you. Texas lists the late games just like the first four: solo, assisted, total.



You said Johnson was not even close to Rolle in the big-play department. Johnson forced 10 turnovers last year. Rolle had one interception and did not set the NCAA record for forced fumbles in a season, so I know he's somewhere south of Johnson's total. Where's the slam dunk evidence in Rolle's favor?



Doubtful. As proven in this thread, you don't even know what you think you remember.

Feel free to take me up on it then.
You obviously no absolutely nothing except what you just read off of DJ's Bio as you are quoting it now as gospel which frankly cracks me up.

Now 10 forced fumbles is the mecca of all things football related. OHHHHH I really want to draft him now. Give me a friggin break.

Tommy Nobis didnt have 10 forced fumbles in a season but was a heck of alot better LB than DJ is or ever will be.

Tracy Saul still holds the record for Intercpetions in a career for the Southwest Conference/Big12. He made it to camp with the Bears but was not there long.

The Longhorns are using assisted tackles as equal to a tackle. The standard is .5 for an assist which would put DJ under 100. The Rose Bowl total is added correctly.

Howard was their 4th back. He was getting yards at the end of the game in a close game which is why I remembered it. Matt Jones had a fumble and a pick to end that game but other than the turnovers ARK was moving the ball on UT.

He was also getting hit in the backfield and driving forward which was what I stated initially. Howard is a strong back and he was getting yards after contact. The other guy the 5th back/fullback was picking up short yardage.