Developing NFL QBs takes great coaching

[AmericanCowboy]

I just want to know who all these developed QB's in the NFL are.....

Who are the developed ones who are starters. I mean I know most of the top guys came in as 1st or 2nd rounders, that were not developed necessarily but came in with NFL talent!

Brady? - that must be the one you are referring too!

Romo was another. These QBs you refer too often weren't given the weight of the franchise by their third year with about the worst skill position players in the league to go along with terrible coaching.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Most starters are first round picks. I really have no problem with bashing the staff but way to much blaming the staff for a QB that was picked in the 4th round. He just does not have it!

Even 1st round picks need to be developed regardless of how much talent they have. Regardless of whether Dak has it or not, this staff will not bring out the full potential from another young QB. This staff absolutely deserves the bashing, it's failing with a young QB, but they also underperformed with a very good vet QB too. These coaches don't have "it" either. Dak is the symptom of what's wrong with this team, not the cause.

 

[JoeKing]

I don't understand how Dak can be made a better QB by being coach by a guy he beat out to become our starting QB. If the argument is Kellen Moore broke a bone and was not beat out by Dak then why was he not made the starting QB after he healed? Either KM is a better QB or he isn't. If he isn't then why is he coaching Dak?

 

[Bobhaze]

This seems to get lost in a lot of debates. You don't just draft Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady or Joe Montana or Troy Aikman and they're great from day. That's when coaching, scheme, development, preparation, practice, play calling, talent etc.... are all relevant to the success of those players.

So, so true. In his HOF acceptance speech, Troy picked Norv Turner to introduce him and has given Norv tons of credit for his success. Aikman needed some coaching to maximize his talent. ALL QBs need help in learning the toughest position in sports.

 

[Roadtrip635]

I don't understand how Dak can be made a better QB by being coach by a guy he beat out to become our starting QB. If the argument is Kellen Moore broke a bone and was not beat out by Dak then why was he not made the starting QB after he healed? Either KM is a better QB or he isn't. If he isn't then why is he coaching Dak?

Kellen Moore is to Scott Linehan, what Jason Garrett is to Jerry Jones.

 

[Vtwin]

A person can either think and react quickly or not.

Instincts are what they are.

Arm talent and accuracy is either there or it's not.

Now all of these things can be fined tuned and improved upon provided there is a foundation to start with. I don't see that foundation with Dak. There are not enough strengths to play to by any coaching staff.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

Kellen Moore needs to be in the frog-march line out the door along with JG and SL. He may be "bright", but he had very little playing time in Pro Football to offer a perspective to Dak.
Shoot, Mark Sanchez would've been a better QB coach than Kellen. Mark played in the league and knew every single way to lose a game, so he could at least say, "Dak...don't do that, it doesn't work. Dak, don't run up the butt of your Guard because it's a bad look. Dak...just don't suck Iike I did", etc.

 

[JoeKing]

Kellen Moore is to Scott Linehan, what Jason Garrett is to Jerry Jones.

These pet projects need to end. Moore, Linehan, and Garrett need to be fired and replaced with qualified replacements.

 

[Bobhaze]

Kellen Moore needs to be in the frog-march line out the door along with JG and SL. He may be "bright", but he had very little playing time in Pro Football to offer a perspective to Dak.
Shoot, Mark Sanchez would've been a better QB coach than Kellen. Mark played in the league and knew every single way to lose a game, so he could at least say, "Dak...don't do that, it doesn't work. Dak, don't run up the butt of your Guard because it's a bad look. Dak...just don't suck Iike I did", etc.

I agree with you that Kellen Moore needs to go. But nothing says you must have had success playing in the NFL to be a good coach.

The best young coach in the game now is Sean McVey and he never played a down in the NFL. Nor did Sean Payton. Or Bill Belechick. One of the best QB coaches in the league right now is Joe Lombardi (grandson of Vince) He never played in the NFL.

 

[Roadtrip635]

These pet projects need to end. Moore, Linehan, and Garrett need to be fired and replaced with qualified replacements.

What about the Director of Advanced Scouting.......Judd Garrett?

 

[Roadtrip635]

I agree with you that Kellen Moore needs to go. But nothing says you must have had success playing in the NFL to be a good coach.

The best young coach in the game now is Sean McVey and he never played a down in the NFL. Nor did Sean Payton. Or Bill Belechick. One of the best QB coaches in the league right now is Joe Lombardi (grandson of Vince) He never played in the NFL.

While success as a QB is not a requirement, it should be a requirement that when you have a young struggling QB, that the QB Coach should be an experienced coach. A person learning to coach should not be teaching a young player learning the position.

 

[JoeKing]

What about the Director of Advanced Scouting.......Judd Garrett?

Another Garrett... no thank you.

 

[75boyz]

This is so very true...

But, every QB has an upside, a ceiling. Some are described to have that "it" factor. The "it" factor isn't a mystery -- it's merely having an innate sense of awareness in or out of the pocket while under duress, and having a quick, accurate release before the pressure gets there.

We just don't have 32 of those guys out there in any given era. If you break down the QBs in 6 tiers (5 in each), then Dak IMO is probably in that 3rd one. Right in the middle of the pack. You can roll with that IF your OL, running game, and defense are stout. Otherwise...it'll be tough sledding.

Yes, I want better coaching. No doubt. But I also don't like what Dak is exuding at QB these days. Lack of pocket presence, lack of that internal time clock when it comes to making quick decisions, including when it's better to just take off and run and not take a sack, and lack of accuracy are sounding some serious alarms for me.

I want it all folks. Yes, get me a new coaching staff, but I gotta be honest, I also want one of those QBs coming out of the college ranks in 2020. I'm all for giving Dak a chance to play out his contract here through 2019. By then, we'll know what we have/don't have at QB. Believe me. IMO, and I hope I'm wrong, we'll all agree by the that Dak is not the answer. Some of us agree with that sentiment now...but I guarantee you...by the end of next season, especially if Dak is bestowed with a more competent OC and (hopefully) an improved OL in so that we cannot use either as an excuse for QB failures..we'll all agree that Dak isn't the long term answer.

Really nice summary. Well said.

 

[ClintDagger]

This is so very true...

But, every QB has an upside, a ceiling. Some are described to have that "it" factor. The "it" factor isn't a mystery -- it's merely having an innate sense of awareness in or out of the pocket while under duress, and having a quick, accurate release before the pressure gets there.

We just don't have 32 of those guys out there in any given era. If you break down the QBs in 6 tiers (5 in each), then Dak IMO is probably in that 3rd one. Right in the middle of the pack. You can roll with that IF your OL, running game, and defense are stout. Otherwise...it'll be tough sledding.

Yes, I want better coaching. No doubt. But I also don't like what Dak is exuding at QB these days. Lack of pocket presence, lack of that internal time clock when it comes to making quick decisions, including when it's better to just take off and run and not take a sack, and lack of accuracy are sounding some serious alarms for me.

I want it all folks. Yes, get me a new coaching staff, but I gotta be honest, I also want one of those QBs coming out of the college ranks in 2020. I'm all for giving Dak a chance to play out his contract here through 2019. By then, we'll know what we have/don't have at QB. Believe me. IMO, and I hope I'm wrong, we'll all agree by the that Dak is not the answer. Some of us agree with that sentiment now...but I guarantee you...by the end of next season, especially if Dak is bestowed with a more competent OC and (hopefully) an improved OL in so that we cannot use either as an excuse for QB failures..we'll all agree that Dak isn't the long term answer.

There has to be a starting baseline skill set that points to an elite QB in order for the premise of the OP to ring true. You can’t develop just anybody into a franchise QB. Dak lacks certain skills that make it very unlikely that he will ever be an upper tier QB. I was listening to Sturm’s show earlier this week and the consensus there was that Dak’s peak is probably as the 18th-20th best starter in the league. That feels about right. Is that really worth investing in? Nobody likes starting over but that’s better than beating your head against the wall and betting on a horse that will never get you where you ultimately want to go.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

I agree with you that Kellen Moore needs to go. But nothing says you must have had success playing in the NFL to be a good coach.

The best young coach in the game now is Sean McVey and he never played a down in the NFL. Nor did Sean Payton. Or Bill Belechick. One of the best QB coaches in the league right now is Joe Lombardi (grandson of Vince) He never played in the NFL.

Well, you're right about that. Playing time in the NFL as a QB doesn't make you a good QB coach, but the FO is adamant about using ex-Cowboy QB's with no coaching experience (Wilson and now Moore). Give me the one with the most experience and "lumps".

Those names you offered up (not so much McVay) had a ton of coaching experience at different levels/positions/years before they became the "QB whisperers" they are known as now. This FO is not interested in that...we like to bring in "our" guys. Man, I wish we had Sean Payton back.

 

[Roadtrip635]

There has to be a starting baseline skill set that points to an elite QB in order for the premise of the OP to ring true. You can’t develop just anybody into a franchise QB. Dak lacks certain skills that make it very unlikely that he will ever be an upper tier QB. I was listening to Sturm’s show earlier this week and the consensus there was that Dak’s peak is probably as the 18th-20th best starter in the league. That feels about right. Is that really worth investing in? Nobody likes starting over but that’s better than beating your head against the wall and betting on a horse that will never get you where you ultimately want to go.

This coaching staff is never going to develop a top tier QB either. The only way this staff has a top tier QB if we trade for one that already is.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

Ok, I get it. Dak isn’t great. He has played poorly in almost every game this year. But he’s also not “trash” as too many fans on here think. I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I hope you read this before trashing it, Lol.

IMO, in the last year and half, Dak has been very poorly served by one of the worst developmental coaching staffs in the NFL. When the team went 13-3 in 2016, and Dak threw for a passing yardage team record in his only playoff game, I think this team’s top brass thought Dak had arrived. Instead of treating him as a developmental project that needed special attention, they treated like a 10 year vet with skins on the wall. Really bad mistake.

When it comes to developing a young QB, good coaching matters a ton. Look at what Andy Reid has done with Patrick Mahomes. As a big Tech fan, I saw Mahomes play a lot in college, and although he has great athletic skills and arm strength, he was very raw coming out of college. Reid has maximized Mahomes’ talent. I’m not comparing Dak to PMs talent, but again, coaching is huge in developing a young QB.

Sean McVea took a young, discouraged Jared Goff and turned him completely around through coaching and making the offensive system fit his skills better. McVea’s philosophy is the polar opposite of the cripplingly conservative Garrett- he often says “We don’t fear failure when making decisions”. Unlike Mahomes, Goff doesn’t have the arm strength but McVea has taught Goff how to maximize his talent. Not saying Dak is Goff. But again, coaching matters a ton when developing a young QB.

Being a decent NFL QB requires so much more than raw talent. It requires a special ability to mentally process what to do at lightening speed, I don’t think most young QBs develop that without some really, really good coaching.

Linehan and Garrett are not only NOT good at mentoring young QBs, the offensive system they use is the NFL’s version of vanilla ice cream. It’s the most unimaginative scheme in the league now. Garrett’s system is based first on the tired moniker, “Fight”.

Maybe Dak will never be anything. But before he’s completely discarded at the very young QB age of25, I would like to see him have a chance with some really good offensive coaches.

Despite what too many seem to think, NFL QBs don’t grow on trees. Fans may hate Dak now but there’s not a QB garden to go pick the next Tom Brady. Even if we found a new young talent at QB- guess what- they have to be developed. If Jerry says he wants to stay with Dak, he better find some coaches that can develop him.

 

[ClintDagger]

This coaching staff is never going to develop a top tier QB either. The only way this staff has a top tier QB if we trade for one that already is.

I’m 100% endorsing that DAL go finds a new coaching staff. My point is that the coaches can suck and Dak still not have what it takes to be a legitimate franchise QB. This staff doesn’t get the most out of Dak. But Dak’s most is still not going to be enough if your goal is year in and year out contention.

 

[Roadtrip635]

Right now I would rather fire Garrett and Linehan and bring in a new staff to evaluate Dak next year and make a decision than get rid of Dak and go look for a new QB and give JG/SL another 5 years to see if they can develop him.

 

[Big_D]

I still think this is coaching. All the prep, practice, film study, play calling, scheme, routes etc. leading up to those moments. Doesn’t mean he would be great with those things, but I do think he could improve with smart coaching. That simply does not exist here.