Devin Street lands in New England

[robbieruff]

Dude, get a grip. Bennett was an idiot, more concerned with his website than football. Why do you think he's on his 4th team already. A better argument would be Amendola. But he would have been hurt 50% of the time anyways.

Lol. I have a great grip!!! And trust me. I am glad to see Street hit the street. He deserved to be gone for his lack of performance. And yes, cud've referenced Amendola as another good example to prove my point but my initial comment didn't include him. Or even Fasano who has been way more productive than Gavin. Trust me the list is long of players I COULD have referenced but didn't. My argument is not weakened by such omissions as I wasn't looking to write a white paper on the topic so I thought two references were sufficient for purposes of illustration. Perhaps you prefer other examples but the point remains the same regardless. My point is we seem to have an issue of developing talent while other teams don't seem to have that difficulty and these released players go on to have productive seasons. Sure, Bennett has tapered off but he will likely play a big role in NE offense this year esp while Gronk is hobbled. And he was a total stud with the Bears despite his well documented idiocy. His bro Michael Bennett is a pretty big head case too but I wud certainly love him in our line up despite it, wouldn't you?

 

[robbieruff]

Highly doubt it. His production may go up because they simply will use him more, but he'll be cast to the wayside in the next season or two as they typically do with WRs in New England.

I was a Street supporter too, but he's a textbook example of a guy that didn't take advantage of his opportunities.

I am actually not a Street supporter and I am actually happy we dropped his sorry ***. I frankly grew disgusted with him and can't fathom how he won the awards he did in college. My bigger issue is with my growing dissatisfaction with the FO and the coaching staff in delivering results, including in the area of talent development. Mediocre players in our system seem to go on to be productive players with other programs. I actually don't honk Street will be one of them but if he is it will just be another indictment of our current system and the leadership thereof.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Now watch him become a pro bowler.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Watch him now catch 50 balls for 700 yds and 8 TDs and become a mainstay in the Pats' offense and a new found fave of Brady. Seriously, if he goes elsewhere and produces to the level that we've seen Marty B do or even Andre Holmes (just to call out a couple of examples in recent years) I think this will be another huge indictment of the coaching staff. Players not producing here after several seasons and then doing it elsewhere once we cut them loose has been a troubling trend. Will be interesting to monitor.

He's not better than Dez, T. Will or Beasley. If he has success on NE it'll be more because of their system than how amazing Street is. Marty B, on the other hand, was freakishly talented. He was just a knucklehead. That's why he couldn't stick on a team despite being one of the most talented TEs in the game.

 

[robbieruff]

God bless him if that happens.

But what if Beasley and Williams both catch 60+ balls and over 800 yards(Williams), that's still in indictment on this staff?
And add in solid production from Butler.

Marty B(who is a loser), had talent, and showed more talent that Street ever did. Street has been nothing but pedestrian.

Agreed. And i wud love to see Williams and Butler thrive as players. The pattern we've seen during this regime is players like these DON'T develop here, they get appropriately shown the door and then go on to productive seasons with other squads. I am saying that I fear this is becoming a pattern and therein lies the indictment. Trust me, I hope that I am wrong...

 

[robbieruff]

He's not better than Dez, T. Will or Beasley. If he has success on NE it'll be more because of their system than how amazing Street is. Marty B, on the other hand, was freakishly talented. He was just a knucklehead. That's why he couldn't stick on a team despite being one of the most talented TEs in the game.

Trust me - I am not trying to imply that Street is more talented than anyone we have on the roster. I am happy we cut him actually. I am talking about the failure of leadership on this team to consistently and successfully develop talent, particularly with any of the day two and three picks. The likes of a Cole Beasely being the very rare exception.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

Trust me - I am not trying to imply that Street is more talented than anyone we have on the roster. I am happy we cut him actually. I am talking about the failure of leadership on this team to consistently and successfully develop talent, particularly with any of the day two and three picks. The likes of a Cole Beasely being the very rare exception.

I agree we haven't done a great job developing talent, but I don't think Devin Street is an indicator of that. There was really no place on the team for him. He was never gonna replace Dez as the #1 or even T. Will as the #2. And Beasley was a good find and much better suited for the slot. Street's ceiling was always a poor man's T. Will. Now, there are a lot of positions which we've done a horrible job developing and it's constantly left us throwing money and picks at the same positions (CB, S, DL, LB, TE).

 

[robbieruff]

He'd need to outperform the equivalent guy in Dallas who was getting the looks Street couldn't earn.

Marty B wouldn't have gotten any looks in NY either if they had a player like Witten in front of him. Same goes for Holmes. Sometimes the opportunity is better in one location--which is why they picked him up in the first place where we cut him.

My point is not that we shouldn't have cut Street. I think we should have. What I am getting at is our failure to develop key areas of our roster to deliver consistent peformance and results to show for it. We've been after a better #2 TE since Fasano and still have nothing to show for it. That's over years of pursuing that stated goal, Witten or not. That's a failure in leadership and coaching. We have wanted a solid #2 receiver since we drafted Dez. Williams hasn't become that and nothing shown in preseason gives me confidence that he will with the exception of that TD vs Chargers. He appeared to be turning a corner in 2014 so let's hope he steps up in this his contract year. Heck, we haven't had a decent #2 receiver since Harper as far as I can tell. Lol.

But back to my original point, I am merely stating that it appears to be a pattern with this regime to fail in their attempts to develop talent and then see it go on to productivity elsewhere. Put it another way, which players would you call out on our roster that have demonstrated actual performance improvements that we've signed or traded from other teams??? Too soon to say Butler although he has a shot. Irving maybe? Certainly not Carr. I suppose Darren Mc showed a flash of improvement relative to his Raider tenure. Anyone else? I am struggling trying to recall one who truly stands out but perhaps you can remind me. Great organizations with great leadership cultures seem to be able to do that consistently but us...not so much. Thoughts?

 

[robbieruff]

I agree we haven't done a great job developing talent, but I don't think Devin Street is an indicator of that. There was really no place on the team for him. He was never gonna replace Dez as the #1 or even T. Will as the #2. And Beasley was a good find and much better suited for the slot. Street's ceiling was always a poor man's T. Will. Now, there are a lot of positions which we've done a horrible job developing and it's constantly left us throwing money and picks at the same positions (CB, S, DL, LB, TE).

Yeah. You've nailed it. Street is not really the issue for me it just merely triggered a reaction of a more general nature. Why is it players go to some organizations and they consistently get "coached up" to become productive contributors while we tend to go thru a constant swirl? The oline being that one glaring and wonderful example to the contrary.

 

[JohnsKey19]

I wish him well. The Cowboys gave him every opportunity to succeed and he basically showed nothing as an NFL WR other than being a willing run blocker.

Certainly can't fault Dallas if Street somehow becomes a good WR elsewhere.

 

[sideon]

So he was dropping and fumbling because he wasn't a good fit here?...

 

[Idgit]

My point is not that we shouldn't have cut Street. I think we should have. What I am getting at is our failure to develop key areas of our roster to deliver consistent peformance and results to show for it. We've been after a better #2 TE since Fasano and still have nothing to show for it. That's over years of pursuing that stated goal, Witten or not. That's a failure in leadership and coaching. We have wanted a solid #2 receiver since we drafted Dez. Williams hasn't become that and nothing shown in preseason gives me confidence that he will with the exception of that TD vs Chargers. He appeared to be turning a corner in 2014 so let's hope he steps up in this his contract year. Heck, we haven't had a decent #2 receiver since Harper as far as I can tell. Lol.

But back to my original point, I am merely stating that it appears to be a pattern with this regime to fail in their attempts to develop talent and then see it go on to productivity elsewhere. Put it another way, which players would you call out on our roster that have demonstrated actual performance improvements that we've signed or traded from other teams??? Too soon to say Butler although he has a shot. Irving maybe? Certainly not Carr. I suppose Darren Mc showed a flash of improvement relative to his Raider tenure. Anyone else? I am struggling trying to recall one who truly stands out but perhaps you can remind me. Great organizations with great leadership cultures seem to be able to do that consistently but us...not so much. Thoughts?

It sounds like I like our backup TEs and Williams better than you do.

To your other question: Lauren Robinson, George Selvie, Jermy Mincey, McFadden, as you mentioned. Butler probably this season, as you mentioned. Maybe Morris again. Overall, we've done pretty well getting extra juice out of other teams' guys. And the ones we've let go aren't necessarily bad players. They just hit FA and qualified for better deals elsewhere.

Brandon Weeden is the guy everybody looks at as doing better when he left Dallas. But really he just had a small sample size and better defensive support with the Texans last year. And he got to play some bad teams in that small sample.

 

[robbieruff]

It sounds like I like our backup TEs and Williams better than you do.

To your other question: Lauren Robinson, George Selvie, Jermy Mincey, McFadden, as you mentioned. Butler probably this season, as you mentioned. Maybe Morris again. Overall, we've done pretty well getting extra juice out of other teams' guys. And the ones we've let go aren't necessarily bad players. They just hit FA and qualified for better deals elsewhere.

Brandon Weeden is the guy everybody looks at as doing better when he left Dallas. But really he just had a small sample size and better defensive support with the Texans last year. And he got to play some bad teams in that small sample.

Good call outs. I mentioned Robinson in another post and I thought of Mincey but wasn't familiar enough with his performance pre-Dallas to say whether that was an improvement. And I think, as u mention, we have some potential wins in the form of Morris (although not to his rookie year form) and Butler who I am hoping will supplant Williams as the #2 before the season is out. Ironically I have been very pro-TWill for quite some time (from his Baylor days since I have had two nephews attend BU during his playing days in college) but his inconsistency has gotten to me.

Quite honestly I have always been the most optimistic of fans (been following this team since the 70s and have attended 100s of games in person, many in very hostile environments (e.g., SF in the 90s, Seattle, Washinton DC, LA Colesium, and at the Vet in Philly just to name a few) but my frustration level has been building. I cud've never imagined that i would've gone this long since a celebration of this team's success, particularly with the gut punch that was 2014. And I want so much to believe we will reach greatness again as my entire core being as a sports fan starts and ends with the Cowboys. Sure, I am a fan of other teams and have had a chance to celebrate their success (e.g., Lakers) but it is never the same level of elation. Trust me.

 

[jrumann59]

Some guys work better in other systems. Some guys are WCO, some are Coryell, some can work in all systems. It is not an indictment of a coaching staff fully or the player it comes to adaptability. Some guys can adapt to brand new systems others need time and maybe going to a system that closely resembles one they were in successful in helps.

 

[skinsscalper]

My point is not that we shouldn't have cut Street. I think we should have. What I am getting at is our failure to develop key areas of our roster to deliver consistent peformance and results to show for it. We've been after a better #2 TE since Fasano and still have nothing to show for it. That's over years of pursuing that stated goal, Witten or not. That's a failure in leadership and coaching. We have wanted a solid #2 receiver since we drafted Dez. Williams hasn't become that and nothing shown in preseason gives me confidence that he will with the exception of that TD vs Chargers. He appeared to be turning a corner in 2014 so let's hope he steps up in this his contract year. Heck, we haven't had a decent #2 receiver since Harper as far as I can tell. Lol.

But back to my original point, I am merely stating that it appears to be a pattern with this regime to fail in their attempts to develop talent and then see it go on to productivity elsewhere. Put it another way, which players would you call out on our roster that have demonstrated actual performance improvements that we've signed or traded from other teams??? Too soon to say Butler although he has a shot. Irving maybe? Certainly not Carr. I suppose Darren Mc showed a flash of improvement relative to his Raider tenure. Anyone else? I am struggling trying to recall one who truly stands out but perhaps you can remind me. Great organizations with great leadership cultures seem to be able to do that consistently but us...not so much. Thoughts?

This post is full of so much hyperbole that it's not even funny.

1). To the TE question, Bennett was exactly what we wanted in a #2 TE. Unfortunately, the guy is a malcontent and not exactly a team player (which is why he's on his 4th team despite being productive). There's a reason that guys like Gronk, Witten, Gonzalez (in his heyday), Graham (when he wasn't actually asked to, you know, play TE) are few of the actual household names at the position. They are hard to find. Bill Polian was asked a question about why it's so hard to find TEs in the pro game and he basically said because college doesn't produce them anymore. He said the best and common approach is to find guys that can catch the ball and hope that you can teach them to block. He also said teams will fail more often than succeed when trying to develop a TE at the pro level. This isn't a Dallas Cowboys problem. It's a league wide conundrum as has been referenced at one point this 0ff-season by both Polian and Gil Brandt. I'm going to assume they know a little more about the subject than all of us combined.

2). This team has actually produced a couple of decent #2 WRs. Patrick Crayton and Laurent Robinson both had seasons (Crayton more than Robinson due to tenure) that were far superior to any numbers that Harper put up in Dallas (go ahead and compare stats either year by year *with Robinson* or over their tenure in Dallas *with Crayton* and see what you've obliviously missed).

3). Go ahead show me some examples of these "great organizations with great leadership that are able to do this consistently". And I'll actually need this laundry list of guys that they scooped off of another team and "developed" where the previous team failed. Heres' a hint using Randy Moss as an example in New England doesn't cut it. He was a HOFer before he ever stepped foot in NE. I'll wait. And I'll be waiting for a long long time, guaranteed.

Welcome to the board BTW. I don't know how long you've been here but I don't remember seeing a lot of posts from you. If you're new, welcome aboard. If you've been around but do more lurking than posting? Well, knock it off and come play with us! Again, welcome.

 

[Bleu Star]

BYE FELICIA

 

[robbieruff]

This post is full of so much hyperbole that it's not even funny.

1). To the TE question, Bennett was exactly what we wanted in a #2 TE. Unfortunately, the guy is a malcontent and not exactly a team player (which is why he's on his 4th team despite being productive). There's a reason that guys like Gronk, Witten, Gonzalez (in his heyday), Graham (when he wasn't actually asked to, you know, play TE) are few of the actual household names at the position. They are hard to find. Bill Polian was asked a question about why it's so hard to find TEs in the pro game and he basically said because college doesn't produce them anymore. He said the best and common approach is to find guys that can catch the ball and hope that you can teach them to block. He also said teams will fail more often than succeed when trying to develop a TE at the pro level. This isn't a Dallas Cowboys problem. It's a league wide conundrum as has been referenced at one point this 0ff-season by both Polian and Gil Brandt. I'm going to assume they know a little more about the subject than all of us combined.

2). This team has actually produced a couple of decent #2 WRs. Patrick Crayton and Laurent Robinson both had seasons (Crayton more than Robinson due to tenure) that were far superior to any numbers that Harper put up in Dallas (go ahead and compare stats either year by year *with Robinson* or over their tenure in Dallas *with Crayton* and see what you've obliviously missed).

3). Go ahead show me some examples of these "great organizations with great leadership that are able to do this consistently". And I'll actually need this laundry list of guys that they scooped off of another team and "developed" where the previous team failed. Heres' a hint using Randy Moss as an example in New England doesn't cut it. He was a HOFer before he ever stepped foot in NE. I'll wait. And I'll be waiting for a long long time, guaranteed.

Welcome to the board BTW. I don't know how long you've been here but I don't remember seeing a lot of posts from you. If you're new, welcome aboard. If you've been around but do more lurking than posting? Well, knock it off and come play with us! Again, welcome.

Thx for welcome...and yes, life's craziness has precluded me for posting as much as I'd like but I really appreciate the insights and info I get from the forum.

And perhaps I am a bit hyperbolic in my comments but c'mon its Friday - the perfect day for it!?! Lol.

Re TE - great breakdown. I guess it's an excellent point from mr polian although I'd say the game has made a nice comeback at the TE position and I actually think we're seeing a tide change in RB at the moment as well. Perhaps I am spoiled since I started watching this team from the era of Ditka and BJ Dupree, Doug Cosbie (sp?) all the way to Witten. I find it mind boggling therefore that, given our legacy, we just seem to suck at it now, despite the talent pool shift, while other top tier teams seem to keep trucking along.

As far as Crayton and Robinson are concerned, I guess i really never thought of them as true number two WRs. Sure, they played the two for periods due to injury (Crayton when Glenn was out, for example, and Robinson for an injured Miles) but I have them pegged in memory as slot guys that were forced into #2 roles on a limited basis but were not the team's stated #2 WRs. But I might be misremembering.

On number 3 I will show u the Dallas Cowboys prior to this regime, but can't elaborate it more than that as I am already on beer number 3. But I will work on it, I promise. here's a hint of who will be part of my list: Jay Novacek and Charles Haley (yes, the latter was already a great talent but he was a total head case as u know who got cut after pissing on a car in the team parking lot). Oh - and James Washington and Tony Casillas. But let me get back to my Friday night.

Great to have these chat 'em up sessions with guys like u. Appreciate your game intelligence. And it's hecka fun!!!

 

[skinsscalper]

Thx for welcome...and yes, life's craziness has precluded me for posting as much as I'd like but I really appreciate the insights and info I get from the forum.

And perhaps I am a bit hyperbolic in my comments but c'mon its Friday - the perfect day for it!?! Lol.

Re TE - great breakdown. I guess it's an excellent point from mr polian although I'd say the game has made a nice comeback at the TE position and I actually think we're seeing a tide change in RB at the moment as well. Perhaps I am spoiled since I started watching this team from the era of Ditka and BJ Dupree, Doug Cosbie (sp?) all the way to Witten. I find it mind boggling therefore that, given our legacy, we just seem to suck at it now, despite the talent pool shift, while other top tier teams seem to keep trucking along.

As far as Crayton and Robinson are concerned, I guess i really never thought of them as true number two WRs. Sure, they played the two for periods due to injury (Crayton when Glenn was out, for example, and Robinson for an injured Miles) but I have them pegged in memory as slot guys that were forced into #2 roles on a limited basis but we're not the team's stated #2 WRs. But I might be misremembering.

On number 3 I will show u the Dallas Cowboys prior to this regime, but can't elaborate it more than that as I am already on beer number 3. But I will work on it, I promise. here's a hint of who will be part of my list: Jay Novacek and Charles Haley (yes, the later was already a great talent but he was a total head case as u know who got cut after pissing on a car in the team parking lot). Oh - and James Washington and Tony Casillas. But let me get back to my Friday night.

Great to have these chat 'em up sessions with guys like u. Appreciate your game intelligence. And it's hecka fun!!!

Great response and nice post. It's official. You're going to need to post more. Until then, enjoy your Friday, my friend.

 

[Reality]

Saying "it's a good fit" is like saying, "I lost my old job, but got a new one." It's not like someone gets signed by a new team and immediately says, "I'm not a good fit, but I'm where I have to be."

I have a feeling that no matter where he ended up, even Cleveland, he would have said the same thing.

 

[remdak]

Dude, get a grip. Bennett was an idiot, more concerned with his website than football. Why do you think he's on his 4th team already. A better argument would be Amendola. But he would have been hurt 50% of the time anyways.

I agree. I get tired of hearing about Bennett. He did pretty much what they wanted him to do in Dallas, which was block... and he did it fairly well. He left because he wanted to start and get starters money. Wasn't going to happen here.