Did Irvin run good routes? Too young to remember

[Avery]

I miss the Triplets.

 

[Don Corleone]

Irvin was the second best route runner of his generation behind only Jerry Rice. He was the first to practice and the last to leave. He would run routes until he threw up, then run some more.

Irvin was the only guy I EVER saw consistently get Deion turned around. He abused him at times, even during Deion's 1994 DPOY season.

I don't think it is fair to compare Irvin to Jerry Rice. They were in two completely different offenses that required different skills from each of them. Not knocking Rice, but he had it far easier than Irvin ever did. Irvin ran kamikaze routes that are sure to get most WRs killed. He worked the middle of the field most of the time with DBs ready to lay some lumber on him. Some of the hits he took would get flagged in today's NFL for a 15 yard penalty (I know we say this a lot in this forum about our former players). His willingness to take these hits is what made that offense so good...and dangerous, in spite of its simplicity.

Rice, OTOH, ran different route patterns that didn't require him to take shots from safeties bearing down on him. Passes were short in the west coast offense, and hit him in stride. Again, I'm not knocking Rice's game, but comparing his routes to Irvin's routes is short-changing what Irvin brought to the table.

 

[realtick]

I don't think it is fair to compare Irvin to Jerry Rice. They were in two completely different offenses that required different skills from each of them. Not knocking Rice, but he had it far easier than Irvin ever did. Irvin ran kamikaze routes that are sure to get most WRs killed. He worked the middle of the field most of the time with DBs ready to lay some lumber on him. Some of the hits he took would get flagged in today's NFL for a 15 yard penalty (I know we say this a lot in this forum about our former players). His willingness to take these hits is what made that offense so good...and dangerous, in spite of its simplicity.

Rice, OTOH, ran different route patterns that didn't require him to take shots from safeties bearing down on him. Passes were short in the west coast offense, and hit him in stride. Again, I'm not knocking Rice's game, but comparing his routes to Irvin's routes is short-changing what Irvin brought to the table.

That's just incorrect. I grew up in the Bay Area during Jerry's hey day and I can tell you he ran routes that took him through the teeth of the defense. In fact, one of the routes he was famous for running was the quick slant. A similiar route that Darren Woodson once blew him on leaving Rice's bubble gum on Woodson's jersey as the story is told.

 

[5Stars]

That's just incorrect. I grew up in the Bay Area during Jerry's hey day and I can tell you he ran routes that took him through the teeth of the defense. In fact, one of the routes he was famous for running was the quick slant. A similiar route that Darren Woodson once blew him on leaving Rice's bubble gum on Woodson's jersey as the story is told.

:laugh2: :laugh2:


Right! I'm sure Rice was chewing bubble gum while wearing a mouthpiece during a game.

 

[realtick]

:laugh2: :laugh2:


Right! I'm sure Rice was chewing bubble gum while wearing a mouthpiece during a game.

Take it up with Woodson, he told the story.

 

[Don Corleone]

That's just incorrect. I grew up in the Bay Area during Jerry's hey day and I can tell you he ran routes that took him through the teeth of the defense. In fact, one of the routes he was famous for running was the quick slant. A similiar route that Darren Woodson once blew him on leaving Rice's bubble gum on Woodson's jersey as the story is told.

I remember hearing about the bubble gum incident. I just remember Rice running shallower routes, keeping safeties away for the most part. I thought Irvin's routes were deeper, lending him to more hits from safeties with a full head of steam.

 

[HanD]

I never said Aikman was elusive, He didn't have to be he was what 6'3 225 lbs. That wasn't his game he was a pocket passer that could have had stats like marino if he wanted to, Tony Romo amazes me as he is like a regular guy out there who ( not typical NFL size ) and has phenomenal athleticism and thats the part of his game to move around and find the open receivers. Aikman also wasn't the beneficiary to have a great line to later on in his career. The first few years he got killed.

does size have a direct correlation with being a pocket passer or being mobile in the pocket? and what is romo's size? isn't it very very close to aikman?

 

[realtick]

I remember hearing about the bubble gum incident. I just remember Rice running shallower routes, keeping safeties away for the most part. I thought Irvin's routes were deeper, lending him to more hits from safeties with a full head of steam.

Well, you're right in sense that they ran different type of routes, but it shouldn't be overgeneralized. I think we as fans like to compartmentalize, pigeon-hole or overgeneralize players...ie. "Romo always blows it...he's not good in big games" "All Randy Moss does is catch deep bombs..." "Chris Johnson is always looking to bounce it outside..." et cetera...

The Bill Walsh did utilize the quick out a lot with Rice. They used it almost like a team would use the run. However, Rice ran the entire route tree. In fact, other than the slant I mentioned he was famous for running the 8-10 yard dig route across the field past the MLB.

You have to remember back in the late 80s/early 90s, Rice at 6'2" was considered a "big" receiver. Back then I remember the talk was always about getting bigger DBs to cover the Irvins and Rices of the league. The Saints drafted Robert Massey for that purpose.

Norv's offenses liked running deeper patterns with Harper and Irvin like you stated.

 

[5Stars]

Take it up with Woodson, he told the story.

I've never heard that story, only from you. Prove it with an article or a video, otherwise I don't believe that for a minute.


:laugh2:

 

[realtick]

I've never heard that story, only from you. Prove it with an article or a video, otherwise I don't believe that for a minute.


:laugh2:

Right, so you're appealing to ignorance: "well if i ain't heard it, it muss meen it neverz happended!"

Lol, go fetch it yourself boy.

 

[5Stars]

Lol, go fetch it yourself boy.

On another occasion in 1987, he threw a piece of chewing gum at a San Francisco 49ers fan who had heckled and thrown a drink at him during a Monday night ...

But that was Mike Ditka...

Boy? If only you knew...


:laugh2:

 

[realtick]

On another occasion in 1987, he threw a piece of chewing gum at a San Francisco 49ers fan who had heckled and thrown a drink at him during a Monday night ...

But that was Mike Ditka...

Boy? If only you knew...

Lol, thanks for obeying and playing fetch.

"Boy? If only you knew..." loooool, ooooooooh, I better watch out! That's some tough talk right there....yes sireeeeee!

 

[JIGGYFLY]

I've never heard that story, only from you. Prove it with an article or a video, otherwise I don't believe that for a minute.


:laugh2:

So because you never heard the story that makes it untrue, talk about being arrogant.

 

[5Stars]

So because you never heard the story that makes it untrue, talk about being arrogant.

Learn to read, OK? I never said it was untrue, I just don't believe it.

There is a difference between the words used.

Look them up and see for yourself.


:laugh2:

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Learn to read, OK? I never said it was untrue, I just don't believe it.

There is a difference between the words used.

Look them up and see for yourself.


:laugh2:

Well if you say you don't believe something your calling it untrue right?

Or do you not believe things that are true.

 

[5Stars]

Well if you say you don't believe something your calling it untrue right?

Or do you not believe things that are true.

I would really like to answer your questions with an example, but, it would not be appropriate in this forum.

 

[jobberone]

I call bull****.

you couldn't extend your arm then or now.

Well, you'd be wrong.

 

[realtick]

Learn to read, OK? I never said it was untrue, I just don't believe it.

There is a difference between the words used.

Look them up and see for yourself.

Right, an appeal to ignorance.

Here's your own words "I've never heard that story, only from you. Prove it with an article or a video, otherwise I don't believe that for a minute."

Translation: I've never heard of that before. You're the first person to tell me. Unless you can provide proof with an article or video, I will choose to believe what you said is untrue.

What you want to believe is your business. I could care less. But lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary (I'm sure I'm speaking over your head at this point). I suppose it will forever have to be a myth to you because I'm not able to pull up an article from 20 years detailing the story or have video clip with the highlight, lol. "Ha haaa, seez I winz!"

 

[5Stars]

Right, an appeal to ignorance.

Here's your own words "I've never heard that story, only from you. Prove it with an article or a video, otherwise I don't believe that for a minute."

Translation: I've never heard of that before. You're the first person to tell me. Unless you can provide proof with an article or video, I will choose to believe what you said is untrue.

You told the story, it is up to you or someone else to prove that happened, otherwise, I don't believe it.

If you don't understand that, take a hike.




If you show me where that was documented or proven, I will apologize to you. the onus is on you, not I. You brought it up...

 

[JIGGYFLY]

I would really like to answer your questions with an example, but, it would not be appropriate in this forum.

What is inappropriate about admitting you thought what is he said was untrue?