Did Jarwin block Bobby Wagner in the back on Dak's 3rd and 14 run?

[Beaker42]

Here is the video.
Is this really a block in the back?

Yes, it was. The Seattle player had a 1/2 step of Goodwin and he took him down from behind. It was a good call.

 

[superonyx]

Yes, it was. The Seattle player had a 1/2 step of Goodwin and he took him down from behind. It was a good call.

You can agree with the call without making up what happened.
Watch the video and show me where the "takedown from behind" was.

If you want to believe he somehow grabbed a handful of jersey and the video doesn't show this then thats one think. But im pretty sure any video would show a takedown from behind. Heck i dont even see him being behind him.

 

[Kevinicus]

please don't force me to be a grammar ****. (I who is)

Please enlighten me.

 

[Kevinicus]

You can agree with the call without making up what happened.
Watch the video and show me where the "takedown from behind" was.

If you want to believe he somehow grabbed a handful of jersey and the video doesn't show this then thats one think. But im pretty sure any video would show a takedown from behind. Heck i dont even see him being behind him.

I can confirm a hold of the jersey (no takedown). I don't think the posted video shows it. At the game they showed an end-zone view that clearly showed the jersey pull.

 

[OmerV]

Any player...that would be running...obviously. Brady would never be in that situation. Even ig he did run, he would never get to that point. But still I have no doubt Brady would sacrifice his body if he felt it had any chance of success.

Now can we stop pretending Dak made a bunch of subtle jedi moves that made guys miss and just admit that Wagner just made a terrible attempt?

There were no "cuts." Please don't try to sell him side stepping the guy being blocked in front of him to go through the massive opening at the LOS as him making a read or cut. I'd appreciate it if you don't insult everyone's intelligence.

Dak did fine on the play. We benefited from Seattle screwing up. It's okay to admit that. It doesn't mean it's a criticism of Dak or his effort or willingness. That has never been anyone's criticism of Dak.

The Cowboys didn't expect the draw to be successful and it went exactly how they expected until Wagner blew it. Sure there is a small chance Dak is able to make a great play if Wagner plays it even decently, but it's unlikely and we'll never know. If Wagner does make the simple tackle, then it's just another meaningless play. But the result is entirely based on Wagner, not by anything great the Cowboys did.

It seems all you see and understand are the blatant, can't miss kind of things that even the least knowledgeable of fans notice. Players seeing things, reading things, understanding what they see and reacting, often in subtle rather than grand maneuvers - those are things that can make a great athlete into a strong NFL player rather than stalling out after college. Your understanding of the game seems to be like a baseball fan who only understands the homeruns or big hits or big arms, but not the great bunt to move a runner into scoring position, or a great base running play that allows a run to get in despite there not being a big hit or blatant, or a pitcher who paints the corners rather than blowing a 100 mph fastball by a hitter. Outstanding plays and moments don't necessarily require, those grand, can't miss moments that every fan can see, no matter how casual or uninformed they are.

 

[Kevinicus]

It seems all you see and understand are the blatant, can't miss kind of things that even the least knowledgeable of fans notice. Players seeing things, reading things, understanding what they see and reacting, often in subtle rather than grand maneuvers - those are things that can make a great athlete into a strong NFL player rather than stalling out after college. Your understanding of the game seems to be like a baseball fan who only understands the homeruns or big hits or big arms, but not the great bunt to move a runner into scoring position, or a great base running play that allows a run to get in despite there not being a big hit or blatant, or a pitcher who paints the corners rather than blowing a 100 mph fastball by a hitter. Outstanding plays and moments don't necessarily require, those grand, can't miss moments that every fan can see, no matter how casual or uninformed they are.

Again, this is where your faulty reading comprehension comes into play, yet again. I did not say that there aren't subtle things that go on that are impactful to a play and can take it from mundane to great. I am talking about this play specifically. Yes, Dak had a few wiggles/hops and speed adjustments mixed in there, but Wagner was still right there in perfect position and there is zero reason for him to make the effort he made. You're really trying to see something there that just isn't there.

 

[OmerV]

Again, this is where your faulty reading comprehension comes into play, yet again. I did not say that there aren't subtle things that go on that are impactful to a play and can take it from mundane to great. I am talking about this play specifically. Yes, Dak had a few wiggles/hops and speed adjustments mixed in there, but Wagner was still right there in perfect position and there is zero reason for him to make the effort he made. You're really trying to see something there that just isn't there.

We will have to agree to disagree. You said he didn't make a cut - he did. A "cut" isn't only a dramatic change in direction, which is all you seem to take stock in. And while you didn't specifically say there aren't subtle things that impact a play and elevate it above "mundane", you have denied that they happened in this case. The subtle moves when there isn't a wide open field to maneuver in are often the best moves. There is little margin for error. And let's not act as if it all happened because a player who is widely regarded as one of the hardest playing and most intense players in football decided not to give much effort on what was one of the most crucial plays in the game.

 

[Kevinicus]

We will have to agree to disagree. You said he didn't make a cut - he did. A "cut" isn't only a dramatic change in direction, which is all you seem to take stock in. And while you didn't specifically say there aren't subtle things that impact a play and elevate it above "mundane", you have denied that they happened in this case. The subtle moves when there isn't a wide open field to maneuver in are often the best moves. There is little margin for error. And let's not act as if it all happened because a player who is widely regarded as one of the hardest playing and most intense players in football decided not to give much effort on what was one of the most crucial plays in the game.

I didn't say Wagner didn't give effort. I said he made a poor effort. It was not a good attempt. Why he did that only he can say. Others have suggested, in this thread, he may have let up because of the other Seahawk coming from the other direction and he didn't want to injure him, or because he thought he would get him. Either way, he didn't do what he was supposed to do there.

A cut is a significant change in direction. Some more dramatic than others. It should not be confused with a shift, or lean, or speed adjustment.

And I did not deny that small moves were made...yet again, reading.

 

[waldoputty]

Just looked at the replay amazed that Dak got by Wagner. I think it might have been because Jarwin blocked Wagner in the back. What say you?

Go to the 6 minute mark in the video, which shows multiple replays of the play.

Just curious, because it would have been a game changer if they would've called the penalty.

dont care. given how dirty they played, too bad someone did not take out wagner's knee

 

[OmerV]

I didn't say Wagner didn't give effort. I said he made a poor effort. It was not a good attempt. Why he did that only he can say. Others have suggested, in this thread, he may have let up because of the other Seahawk coming from the other direction and he didn't want to injure him, or because he thought he would get him. Either way, he didn't do what he was supposed to do there.

A cut is a significant change in direction. Some more dramatic than others. It should not be confused with a shift, or lean, or speed adjustment.

And I did not deny that small moves were made...yet again, reading.

He didn't lack effort, he just wasn't in a good position to make the play given his path and timing relative to Dak's speed and direction. Given his timing and direction, even if he somehow could have tried twice as hard he still would not have made the play. That's where those subtle moves and changes of direction come in - Dak saw the Seattle defenders coming from both sides and altered his direction and speed just enough so they weren't able to make a solid hit.

As for the definition of the word "cut", I'm not going to argue just how dramatic a change of direction has to be to qualify as a "cut". To me it isn't a matter of exactly what degree the angle of the change of direction has to be to qualify, it's that it is a sudden and immediate change in direction rather than a rounded off path or gradual change of direction. But if it helps I'll just call it a change in direction. The same point applies. He had to, by instinct and reaction, determine the right change of direction and speed to help him make it past the would be tacklers and to the first down marker and beyond.

 

[SibannacRex]

Just looked at the replay amazed that Dak got by Wagner. I think it might have been because Jarwin blocked Wagner in the back. What say you?

Go to the 6 minute mark in the video, which shows multiple replays of the play.

Just curious, because it would have been a game changer if they would've called the penalty.

Not even close. Wagner was thrown off by McDougald's missed tackle. McDougald missed and fell toward's Wagner's legs, which seems to have impacted the play Wagner was trying to make.

 

[Kevinicus]

He didn't lack effort, he just wasn't in a good position to make the play given his path and timing relative to Dak's speed and direction. Given his timing and direction, even if he somehow could have tried twice as hard he still would not have made the play. That's where those subtle moves and changes of direction come in - Dak saw the Seattle defenders coming from both sides and altered his direction and speed just enough so they weren't able to make a solid hit.

As for the definition of the word "cut", I'm not going to argue just how dramatic a change of direction has to be to qualify as a "cut". To me it is just a sudden change in direction rather than a rounded off path or gradual change of direction. But if it helps I'll just call it a change in direction. The same point applies. He had to, by instinct and reaction, determine the right change of direction and speed to help him make it past the would be tacklers and to the first down marker and beyond.

He was in perfect position to make the play. There is absolutely zero reason for him to not have made solid hit. Dak braced for a hit that just didn't come.

 

[OmerV]

He was in perfect position to make the play. There is absolutely zero reason for him to not have made solid hit. Dak braced for a hit that just didn't come.

I don't buy into Wagner just giving a poor effort in contradiction to his entire career in the NFL, so, again, we will have to agree to disagree. Being close does not mean being in perfect position, and having the opportunity doesn't mean that conditions won't change, even subtly, that prevent the opportunity from being realized.

 

[Kevinicus]

I don't buy into Wagner just giving a poor effort in contradiction to his entire career in the NFL, so, again, we will have to agree to disagree. Being close does not mean being in perfect position, and having the opportunity doesn't mean that conditions won't change, even subtly, that prevent the opportunity from being realized.

You are saying Wagner is perfect and has never made a mistake/missed a tackle in his career? Okay. We'll just disagree then. I think even the best players make mistakes.

 

[OmerV]

You are saying Wagner is perfect and has never made a mistake/missed a tackle in his career? Okay. We'll just disagree then. I think even the best players make mistakes.

No, I didn't say Wagner never makes a mistake or misses a tackle. In fact, much of this this entire conversation is about him missing this tackle and at no time did I ever claim he did not miss this tackle or suggest he never misses tackles. I only talked about Dak's role in why he missed this particular tackle and your claim that his effort was poor.

 

[TruBluSince1982]

Did I see Connor get away with a huge hold?? Is this the play?

So Jarwin too then?

 

[Kevinicus]

No, I didn't say Wagner never makes a mistake or misses a tackle. In fact, much of this this entire conversation is about him missing this tackle and at no time did I ever claim he did not miss this tackle or suggest he never misses tackles. I only talked about Dak's role in why he missed this particular tackle and your claim that his effort was poor.

Are you using the wrong meaning of effort? It appears you are trying to use the meaning referencing how much exertion was used, and not the meaning speaking of the result.

Poor effort in this context does not mean a lack of exertion or trying.
Poor effort in this context does mean a poor result.

Again, reading.

 

[OmerV]

Are you using the wrong meaning of effort? It appears you are trying to use the meaning referencing how much exertion was used, and not the meaning speaking of the result.

Poor effort in this context does not mean a lack of exertion or trying.
Poor effort in this context does mean a poor result.

Again, reading.

In either context a poor result does not necessarily mean poor effort because it doesn't take all other variables into account. A player can make a phenomenal effort, both in terms of how hard he is trying, and in terms of taking the best approach to have a chance to make the tackle, and still have a poor result because there are other variables that play a part. In this specific case, I'm not at all suggesting there is absolutely nothing Wagner could have done differently that might have helped change the result, and of course it's easy to find those things with the benefit of hindsight and replays, I'm merely saying Dak was a factor in why the tackle wasn't made.

 

[cern]

seems you can beat a dead horse to death again.

 

[Kevinicus]

In either context a poor result does not necessarily mean poor effort because it doesn't take all other variables into account. A player can make a phenomenal effort, both in terms of how hard he is trying, and in terms of taking the best approach to have a chance to make the tackle, and still have a poor result because there are other variables that play a part. In this specific case, I'm not at all suggesting there is absolutely nothing Wagner could have done differently that might have helped change the result, and of course it's easy to find those things with the benefit of hindsight and replays, I'm merely saying Dak was a factor in why the tackle wasn't made.

Dude...in the context I used it, the very definition of "poor effort" is a "poor result." The best approach and how hard they are trying is the other definition. There may have been no lack of trying, and he may have set up properly, but in the end, he made a poor play. That poor result = poor effort. He screwed up.