Difference between "questions" and "hopeless"

[jday]

Yeah, I actually have thought before that Lawrence kind of reminds me of Haley. It just that Haley was so good that I hate to make that comparison about a rookie.

He does have a bit of a nasty streak, much like Haley did... however, let's hope he isn't insane like Haley was/is.

Personally, I am going to love watching a guy on the DL who finally plays mean.

You mentioned that earlier about Ware - and I said it many times myself throughout his career here - he's too nice. And there's nothing wrong with nice. But nice is not infectious to the Dlineman, like nasty and mean is. When you have a guy that's barking at the QB and play's with attitude, slowly but surely, you'll see other guys start to take on the persona. I'm not saying it will, but overtime it could lead to guys playing beyond their ability as a unit and, of course, it can make opposing QB's play with happy feet. So once again, I really hope your right about DLaw.

 

[jday]

I screw up using there instead of their.

Church had a much better than average 3-cone, IIRC.

I think I did a similar thing with "were" and "where," in the OP. No worries. I haven't seen grammatical police in the zone for awhile.

 

[jday]

He's been doing it for for awhile. I noticed the difference in the training camp before he injured his Achilles. He came to that TC at the lighter weight and was noticeably faster.

See my question to Asthma in regards to how many Dl's we keep on the final roster and who. I'd be curious about your take, as well.

 

[burmafrd]

You mentioned that earlier about Ware - and I said it many times myself throughout his career here - he's too nice. And there's nothing wrong with nice. But nice is not infectious to the Dlineman, like nasty and mean is. When you have a guy that's barking at the QB and play's with attitude, slowly but surely, you'll see other guys start to take on the persona. I'm not saying it will, but overtime it could lead to guys playing beyond their ability as a unit and, of course, it can make opposing QB's play with happy feet. So once again, I really hope your right about DLaw.

\
Bob Lilly was exactly the same as ware. Seemed to do pretty well.

 

[AsthmaField]

Okay, so break it down for me. You clearly have done more research on these guys then I have. How many do they keep and who? My gut tell's me considering they want to send players in waves and also want to avoid the fiasco of having to scrape the bottom of the barrell should the injury bug hit there that they will keep 10. I would also say that they will go light at DT in favor of DE because of the flexibility of many of the DE's to move inside, however they have to keep at least 2 pure 1-tech's, so I'm thinking a ratio of 6 DE and 4 DT. I consider Henry Melton a more natural fit for the 3-tech, but I understand he can play either w/effectiveness. So do you agree w/my #'s breakdown? If so, who are the 10? If not, how do you break it down and who sticks?

IMO, it is anyone's guess as to who all makes it, aside from the guys that everyone knows will. I also don't know how many they'll keep, but assuming they do keep 10, I'll take my guess. Keep in mind that many of these guys can play multiple spots along the DL, so I might be right about a guy making the team but wrong about where he is going to play.

WDE:
Lawrence - R
Selvie

DT1:
McClain
Bishop - R
Hayden

DT3:
Melton
Coleman - R

SDE:
Crawford
Mincey
Gardner - R

That is a way too early guess at it. It probably isn't correct, and it concerns me because I put 4 rookies on there. I really like all 4 of those guys and I think because of how quickly they can pick up Marinelli's scheme, they have a good shot at making the 53. However, the truth of the NFL is that they can put one or more of those guys on the practice squad, still have them available later in the season and still keep a vet they want, like Hayden for instance, so they probably do that with at least one of those young guys. Lawrence will make it, and I think Bishop plays really well right away. The other two are candidates for the practice squad if they don't play very well... but I think they just might play good enough to make it.

Still, that is who I like along the DL. It doesn't look great at this point, but I honestly think a few of those young guys are going to play well.

 

[jday]

\
Bob Lilly was exactly the same as ware. Seemed to do pretty well.

My statement wasn't to suggest that Demarcus Ware wasn't good at his craft...I only suggested that nice is not infectious like mean. I was referring to the impact mean can have on the other players. Take the recent Marc Columbo, for instance. He played with a mean-streak and it, at times, was a momentum changer in the game. I have fond memories of Columbo throwing D Hall when he tried to pile on a guy that was already down.

Anyway, my point is, while it may not have that much of an impact on how DLaw plays, overall, his attitude could very well have an impact on how everyone else on the unit and the opposing QB plays, if he does in fact play mean.

 

[Donny Phoenix]

Along with luck and health, I would add pride. I think this may come into play in a big way. It is a bit of wishful thinking and cant be measured until after the fact. These are grown men and everyrhing about them is being questioned from their ability to their competency to their heart. I think these players and coaches take pride in what they do. Also, none of the guys that have been brought in this year are known as nice guys. We keep hearing about mean streaks and having some "nasty" in their game. These intangibles could be what makes this defense the surprise of the season.

 

[jday]

IMO, it is anyone's guess as to who all makes it, aside from the guys that everyone knows will. I also don't know how many they'll keep, but assuming they do keep 10, I'll take my guess. Keep in mind that many of these guys can play multiple spots along the DL, so I might be right about a guy making the team but wrong about where he is going to play.

WDE:
Lawrence - R
Selvie

DT1:
McClain
Bishop - R
Hayden

DT3:
Melton
Coleman - R

SDE:
Crawford
Mincey
Gardner - R

That is a way too early guess at it. It probably isn't correct, and it concerns me because I put 4 rookies on there. I really like all 4 of those guys and I think because of how quickly they can pick up Marinelli's scheme, they have a good shot at making the 53. However, the truth of the NFL is that they can put one or more of those guys on the practice squad, still have them available later in the season and still keep a vet they want, like Hayden for instance, so they probably do that with at least one of those young guys. Lawrence will make it, and I think Bishop plays really well right away. The other two are candidates for the practice squad if they don't play very well... but I think they just might play good enough to make it.

Still, that is who I like along the DL. It doesn't look great at this point, but I honestly think a few of those young guys are going to play well.

Martez Wilson is someone I'm hoping the lights come on for; in terms of raw talent, he's a beast. I would really like to see him leapfrog Mincey, if for no other reason to keep getting younger and watch guy's develop for the next several year's. Mincey is not a long-term solution in any role.

 

[jday]

Along with luck and health, I would add pride. I think this may come into play in a big way. It is a bit of wishful thinking and cant be measured until after the fact. These are grown men and everyrhing about them is being questioned from their ability to their competency to their heart. I think these players and coaches take pride in what they do. Also, none of the guys that have been brought in this year are known as nice guys. We keep hearing about mean streaks and having some "nasty" in their game. These intangibles could be what makes this defense the surprise of the season.

It's kinda of nice actually that the experts and analyst abroad rank then so low. It should be great bulletin board material for Marinelli going into training camp. I think it might motivate guys to work even harder. But like you, I fully understand that's a whole bunch of wishful thinking for guys making millions one way or another.

 

[AsthmaField]

Martez Wilson is someone I'm hoping the lights come on for; in terms of raw talent, he's a beast. I would really like to see him leapfrog Mincey, if for no other reason to keep getting younger and watch guy's develop for the next several year's. Mincey is not a long-term solution in any role.

I would like that too. Like I said earlier in this thread though, I'm not counting on it. However, he definitely has the physical ability to do it.

You know, there are so many different schemes in the NFL, and they all have subtle differences that can allow a player to do well there... or to hold him back. Wilson's first year, he played under Gregg Williams in his 43, and that isn't an easy system to learn. His second year was a wash like it was for everyone else on the NO defense when Gregg Williams (and Sean Payton) was suspended and the entire defense was in shambles. In his third year, the Saints moved to Ryan's 34 and Wilson ended up getting cut. He isn't 34 OLB material for sure because his assignments need to be kept simple... and the OLB responsibilities are not easy.

However, as I've said a few times here, Marinelli keeps it as simple as possible on the DL so the guys can just pin their ears back and go. It is the key to allowing young guys to play aggressively. That's why last year we had guys off the street coming in on Tuesday and playing in the game on Sunday. It is why Selvie played well right away. I think it is an ideal situation for Wilson... meaning if he can't play in this system for Marinelli, then he probably can't play in the NFL at all.

Maybe he can though. For the first time in his career, he is in a system where he can have just a couple of keys to read and he can just run around like his hair is on fire.

I still see it as a long shot... but it is possible.

 

[jday]

I would like that too. Like I said earlier in this thread though, I'm not counting on it. However, he definitely has the physical ability to do it.

You know, there are so many different schemes in the NFL, and they all have subtle differences that can allow a player to do well there... or to hold him back. Wilson's first year, he played under Gregg Williams in his 43, and that isn't an easy system to learn. His second year was a wash like it was for everyone else on the NO defense when Gregg Williams (and Sean Payton) was suspended and the entire defense was in shambles. In his third year, the Saints moved to Ryan's 34 and Wilson ended up getting cut. He isn't 34 OLB material for sure because his assignments need to be kept simple... and the OLB responsibilities are not easy.

However, as I've said a few times here, Marinelli keeps it as simple as possible on the DL so the guys can just pin their ears back and go. It is the key to allowing young guys to play aggressively. That's why last year we had guys off the street coming in on Tuesday and playing in the game on Sunday. It is why Selvie played well right away. I think it is an ideal situation for Wilson... meaning if he can't play in this system for Marinelli, then he probably can't play in the NFL at all.

Maybe he can though. For the first time in his career, he is in a system where he can have just a couple of keys to read and he can just run around like his hair is on fire.

I still see it as a long shot... but it is possible.

I certainly don't see him starting, by any means. But coming off the bench fresh against an OT who has seen mutliple players in various looks, he could give fits with his athleticism. Considering that, I'm not so sure it's that much of a longshot.