DMN: Football Outsiders - Adam Jones Has Been Dallas' Best CB

[Vinnie2u]

I wonder how Asante Samuel is doing in Philly? Love Newman But I still say Jerry shoulda spent his money on AS. Just one mans opinion..

 

[Xy_Oldone]

This is just my opinion. But I think the stats would back it up.

From what I saw Pac seemed to be getting better every week. He is no Newman but I believe that he could be a pro bowl player for us. Every week he seemed better in coverage. And to be honest this is what I expected when we signed him.

I did not expect him to come in and be a shut down corner. And he was not. But he did well for us. Like him or not. He was not playing badly by any standard. Every single corner out there is going to get burned once in a while. Its the nature of the game. But its consistacy that counts.

Adam not only was a good corner, which was getting better, he brought the right attitude. At least on the football field. He was fired up and was a good teamate.

I see no reason to either bash him nor put him in the Hall of Fame. If he could have stayed out of trouble we would have deffinetly got our monies worth. And might still. If he comes back and we get another 4 or 5 solid games out of him then that will be a great thing. Its not like we broke the bank in aquiring him.


As I said its just my opinion.

 

[AdamJT13]

That's right. But then all those NFL stats are pretty worthless because they are not based on enough examples.

My comment applies only to subjective statistics that are prone to errors.

One last thing: With a large sample size you don't hope that everything evens out. Mathmaticlly it' a proven fact that it does

That's not true at all. Anytime there is error involved, there will be errors no matter how large the sample size. A large sample doesn't guarantee that there is no error, especially when comparing only two examples out of many. Everything might average out when there is a large sample size and many examples, but there still are errors within the numbers.

 

[RoadRunner]

People are only using the numbers they have.

Numbers from this season.

Newman struggled when he did play this year.

Due to injury?

Most likely.

But the fact is that he did struggle.

And the raw numbers bear out the fact that despite being a first-class bonehead, Pacman Jones' numbers were better than the other corners.

I don't see anyone condoning his behavior or anything like that.

I just see some raw numbers being used to show how well or how poorly the Cowboys' cornerbacks were playing when they did play.

I agree, but there are several here who can't remove their own emotions and just look at the numbers.

 

[juck]

Pac will return.He will be the #2 cb.

 

[28 Joker]

K.C. Joyner did a pod-cast with Rafael Vela.

According to Joyner, who has watched 8 Dallas games, Mike Jenkins has put up a 6.4 YPA through 8 games. Again, this is for 8 games and not 9. 6.4 YPA is good.

Joyner has Jenkins being targeted 18 times and giving up 12 completions. He says he would like to see the success % improve. However, Joyner says most of the completions have been short passes and Jenkins hasn't given up the big plays. Also, Joyner says that he would like to see Jenkins play 10 straight games. He says that Jenkins has been out, in, and now out again.

Finally, Joyner states that Darrell Revis had a rough start last year, but he played through it. Now, he is one of the best in the NFL in his second year.
The Cowboys really need to keep breaking Jenkins in, imo.


Joyner has these stats for Pacman and Henry and Newman (8 games):

Pacman 5.9 YPA
Henry 8.5 YPA
Newman 9.9 YPA

Joyner states that Pacman's 5.9 is great, but he isn't playing now. Can you depend on him? (League average is around 7.0.)

Joyner dismisses Newman's due to injury.

However, he says Henry's 8.5 YPA will get you targeted. Teams are attacking Henry. If you listen to what the scout told Vela about teams liking Mike Jenkins and going after Henry, because they think Henry can't run any more, this number, and your own eyes in these games, you have to believe the Commanders will test Newman to see if he is back to himself; furthermore, they will attack Henry regardless.

In my opinion, Pacman can't be counted on, and Jenkins should start over Henry. This may play out. We'll see.

The Jets played Revis last year, it paid off this year. Mike Jenkins has played very well next to the sidelines, Joyner's numbers show that fact. Plus, he picked six Manning. Who else on the team has one? Play the 4.38 guy who can run and has catch up speed or can recover.

McMahan can try to down talk Jenkins' pick six all he wants to, he is just showing either a lack of knowledge about the play, or he has an agenda.

It was a great play.

 

[Rack]

I wonder how Asante Samuel is doing in Philly? Love Newman But I still say Jerry shoulda spent his money on AS. Just one mans opinion..

Jerry barely spent any money on Pacman.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Jerry barely spent any money on Pacman.

I think he's suggesting that Jerry should've spent the franchise money on Samuel instead of Newman. Pac notwithstanding.

 

[Vintage]

Injured or not... teams apparently were having success throwing at Newman when they wanted to.

Good to see Scandrick and Jenkins playing well as rookies. Maybe we have our future CB tandem in that.

 

[McCordsville Cowboy]

This is just my opinion. But I think the stats would back it up.

From what I saw Pac seemed to be getting better every week. He is no Newman but I believe that he could be a pro bowl player for us. Every week he seemed better in coverage. And to be honest this is what I expected when we signed him.

As I said its just my opinion.

Your right.....

He isnt over-rated , on the wrong side of 30 and injured....

 

[khiladi]

And that system always works. Make the idiot your hero, that's up to you.
None of it matters any way, he won't be back. Sooner or later it will all catch up to him.

That is irrelevant. It is the job of the system to do what you claim the NFL should be doing... That system declared him not-guilty...

 

[khiladi]

K.C. Joyner did a pod-cast with Rafael Vela.

According to Joyner, who has watched 8 Dallas games, Mike Jenkins has put up a 6.4 YPA through 8 games. Again, this is for 8 games and not 9. 6.4 YPA is good.

Joyner has Jenkins being targeted 18 times and giving up 12 completions. He says he would like to see the success % improve. However, Joyner says most of the completions have been short passes and Jenkins hasn't given up the big plays. Also, Joyner says that he would like to see Jenkins play 10 straight games. He says that Jenkins has been out, in, and now out again.

Finally, Joyner states that Darrell Revis had a rough start last year, but he played through it. Now, he is one of the best in the NFL in his second year.
The Cowboys really need to keep breaking Jenkins in, imo.


Joyner has these stats for Pacman and Henry and Newman (8 games):

Pacman 5.9 YPA
Henry 8.5 YPA
Newman 9.9 YPA

Joyner states that Pacman's 5.9 is great, but he isn't playing now. Can you depend on him? (League average is around 7.0.)

Joyner dismisses Newman's due to injury.

However, he says Henry's 8.5 YPA will get you targeted. Teams are attacking Henry. If you listen to what the scout told Vela about teams liking Mike Jenkins and going after Henry, because they think Henry can't run any more, this number, and your own eyes in these games, you have to believe the Commanders will test Newman to see if he is back to himself; furthermore, they will attack Henry regardless.

In my opinion, Pacman can't be counted on, and Jenkins should start over Henry. This may play out. We'll see.

The Jets played Revis last year, it paid off this year. Mike Jenkins has played very well next to the sidelines, Joyner's numbers show that fact. Plus, he picked six Manning. Who else on the team has one? Play the 4.38 guy who can run and has catch up speed or can recover.

McMahan can try to down talk Jenkins' pick six all he wants to, he is just showing either a lack of knowledge about the play, or he has an agenda.

It was a great play.

Jenkins wasn't even starting for 8 games... Pac-man was starting for those 5 or 6 games, with a year off. He was covering the best receiver a team had to throw at him. The same lee-way your giving to Jenkins needs to be given to Pac-man, in fact more, because Pac-man hasn't played any ball for a year... His numbers are freaking ridiculous...He should have at least 5 picks, but he couldn't hold onto the ball... I'd love to see how many people would turn coat if he did...

 

[khiladi]

If a healthy Newman and Pac-man are starting, look out... With Henry on the bench or playing FS...

 

[Xy_Oldone]

Your right.....

He isnt over-rated , on the wrong side of 30 and injured....

???

Sorry but I am confused. Newman is hardly overated in my view. I do not believe he has given up more than 10 touchdowns in the last 3 years. Sure he does not make a lot of interceptions but he plays safe. And I like that personally. The coners with a lot of int, USUALLY, give up a lot of big plays. Newman gives up few big plays and even fewer touchdowns.

He does seem a little injury prone latelycannot argue with that. But I believe he has played more games than has been injured. I do not believe he missed a game his first 3 years with us.

As for being on the wrong side of 30. Uh did he not just turn 30 this sept?

 

[khiladi]

The amusing thing is, it is the very attitude of Pac-man that allows him to get INTs shut-down players and play better than the rest of the DBs... He is aggressive, contrary to the philosophy that Wade, or whoever, is promoting here as a defensive coach...
His skills overcome the limitations imposed by the coaching...

 

[Rampage]

:laugh2: and Hostile and Dbair were saying that Jenkins was playing better.

 

[28 Joker]

Injured or not... teams apparently were having success throwing at Newman when they wanted to.

Good to see Scandrick and Jenkins playing well as rookies. Maybe we have our future CB tandem in that.

Vintage,

Newman had one tough quarter against Washington. He played very well against the Packers and good against the Eagles. He took care of Donald Driver.

 

[28 Joker]

:laugh2: and Hostile and Dbair were saying that Jenkins was playing better.

Accordng to Joyner's 8 games graded, he was. 6.4 YPA

It is Anthony Henry's play that has gone ignored by the Dallas media.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

The amusing thing is, it is the very attitude of Pac-man that allows him to get INTs shut-down players and play better than the rest of the DBs... He is aggressive, contrary to the philosophy that Wade, or whoever, is promoting here as a defensive coach...
His skills overcome the limitations imposed by the coaching...

Say what?

 

[28 Joker]

K.C. Joyner Blogs the Cowboys

by Rafael Vela on Nov 13, 2008 10:09 PM CST

Long-time blog friend K.C. Joyner, the author of the Football Scientist series and a regular with ESPN.com and now with the New York Times, takes a lot of his time to discuss the Dallas secondary, T.O. and Roy Williams, Tony Romo and how Flozell Adams' and Kyle Kosier's injuries have hurt the Cowboys' offensive line:


K.C. Joyner Interview I - 11/14
(17:08)


Here is where I heard Joyner's stats for my earlier post. You can listen to it if you want to.

AdamJT13 told me that Football Outsiders counts throws where you are the closest defender, but Joyner does his work based off if you are directly targeted.

To me, Joyner's work is more reliable and should be more valid. Just because a corner is the nearest guy, that doesn't make him automatically responsible for a given play. Direct targets are easier to measure. It decreases the subjectivity, and that should increase your chances of being valid.