News: DMN: Jerry Jones: Jaylon Smith experiencing rejuvenated feeling regarding nerve in injured knee

[Szczepanik]

I think you're assuming too much in the timeline or sequence of how the body heals and presuming those milestones in recovery will be hit.

There is no guarantee the nerve reinnervates in length or to the extent to which pre-injury functionality can be regained. The channels/pathways the nerve follows as it regrows can atrophy and close up which can cause the "growing" nerve to reinnervate the wrong muscles. That's one issue. An entirely different issue is that the nerve can indeed reinnervate the right muscle, but not provide the same level of impulse that it once did pre-injury. Recovery from this injury is a matter of degree, not a simple it does or it doesn't situation.

For the average Joe, that can be a manageable minor impairment that allows him to walk with a hitch, but without the use of an AFO; he can mow the lawn, play catch with the kids, et cetera. For a pro athlete trying to perform at the highest level, it can be debilitating. Marcus Lattimore had a devastating knee injury that included nerve damage. He actually recovered but retired because he didn't feel he was going to be able to perform at the same level he was used to.

Atrophy shouldn't be an issue in an athlete with top notch medical care. If anything, they have been applying FES/TENS units to the area ( electrical stimulation units for those who don't know) , which can slow atrophy. It is extremely rare, and I have yet to hear of a case where a channel for a nerve closes up, even in people with spinal cord injuries, or other peripheral nerve injuries, I have not heard of that occuring often, if at all. I could be wrong though.

The loss of impulse you are referring to is the amplitude of a nerve, which only is affected if there is direct axonal damage. If there is no axonal damage, then there will be no amplitude change according to scientific literature. Nerve conduction speed (timing and activation) of a nerve is a different story, and that is most likely Jaylon's recovery hurdle.

The reason I assume much into the timeline of healing, is because I am currently going by the most recent scientific literature on timetables for neuron recovery. Which is always subject to change of course as science advances.

Prognosis from his injury is pretty heavily based upon the surgeon and the extent of which coverings of the nerve are damaged, depending on which tissues are damaged lead to pretty concrete prognostic factors.

The reinnervation of the incorrect muscles can occur, to my knowledge it is termed "collateral sprouting" , and occurs when there is axonal damage as well. It really depends on the severity of the nerve injury, but the surgeon should be able to easily identify whether or not itis a neuropraxia, axonotmesis, or neurotmesis.

 

[windjc]

I think you're assuming too much in the timeline or sequence of how the body heals and presuming those milestones in recovery will be hit.

There is no guarantee the nerve reinnervates in length or to the extent to which pre-injury functionality can be regained. The channels/pathways the nerve follows as it regrows can atrophy and close up which can cause the "growing" nerve to reinnervate the wrong muscles. That's one issue. An entirely different issue is that the nerve can indeed reinnervate the right muscle, but not provide the same level of impulse that it once did pre-injury. Recovery from this injury is a matter of degree, not a simple it does or it doesn't situation.

For the average Joe, that can be a manageable minor impairment that allows him to walk with a hitch, but without the use of an AFO; he can mow the lawn, play catch with the kids, et cetera. For a pro athlete trying to perform at the highest level, it can be debilitating. Marcus Lattimore had a devastating knee injury that included nerve damage. He actually recovered but retired because he didn't feel he was going to be able to perform at the same level he was used to.

Atrophy shouldn't be an issue in an athlete with top notch medical care. If anything, they have been applying FES/TENS units to the area ( electrical stimulation units for those who don't know) , which can slow atrophy. It is extremely rare, and I have yet to hear of a case where a channel for a nerve closes up, even in people with spinal cord injuries, or other peripheral nerve injuries, I have not heard of that occuring often, if at all. I could be wrong though.

The loss of impulse you are referring to is the amplitude of a nerve, which only is affected if there is direct axonal damage. If there is no axonal damage, then there will be no amplitude change according to scientific literature. Nerve conduction speed (timing and activation) of a nerve is a different story, and that is most likely Jaylon's recovery hurdle.

The reason I assume much into the timeline of healing, is because I am currently going by the most recent scientific literature on timetables for neuron recovery. Which is always subject to change of course as science advances.

Prognosis from his injury is pretty heavily based upon the surgeon and the extent of which coverings of the nerve are damaged, depending on which tissues are damaged lead to pretty concrete prognostic factors.

The reinnervation of the incorrect muscles can occur, to my knowledge it is termed "collateral sprouting" , and occurs when there is axonal damage as well. It really depends on the severity of the nerve injury, but the surgeon should be able to easily identify whether or not itis a neuropraxia, axonotmesis, or neurotmesis.

Wait. Who is the charlatan again?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Wait. Who is the charlatan again?

Clearly you don't have a clue of what you're reading, but just see three and four syllable words and equate that to mean something.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Atrophy shouldn't be an issue in an athlete with top notch medical care. If anything, they have been applying FES/TENS units to the area ( electrical stimulation units for those who don't know) , which can slow atrophy. It is extremely rare, and I have yet to hear of a case where a channel for a nerve closes up, even in people with spinal cord injuries, or other peripheral nerve injuries, I have not heard of that occuring often, if at all. I could be wrong though.

The loss of impulse you are referring to is the amplitude of a nerve, which only is affected if there is direct axonal damage. If there is no axonal damage, then there will be no amplitude change according to scientific literature. Nerve conduction speed (timing and activation) of a nerve is a different story, and that is most likely Jaylon's recovery hurdle.

The reason I assume much into the timeline of healing, is because I am currently going by the most recent scientific literature on timetables for neuron recovery. Which is always subject to change of course as science advances.

Prognosis from his injury is pretty heavily based upon the surgeon and the extent of which coverings of the nerve are damaged, depending on which tissues are damaged lead to pretty concrete prognostic factors.

The reinnervation of the incorrect muscles can occur, to my knowledge it is termed "collateral sprouting" , and occurs when there is axonal damage as well. It really depends on the severity of the nerve injury, but the surgeon should be able to easily identify whether or not itis a neuropraxia, axonotmesis, or neurotmesis.

I'm not talking about the atrophy of muscle but of the existing pathways the nerve fascicules (more specifically the individual axons) follow when reinnervating the muscle. It's one reason why nerve grafts are necessary in trying to correct regenerated nerves that aren't innervating the muscle adequately, as well as in some cases to connect (graft) a segment of nerve to the muscle.

We are talking about two different phases: regeneration and reinnervation.

Nerve regeneration follows a very predictable sequence. Reinnervation is a different and unpredictable ballgame alltogether.

Bottomline, while Jaylon is still in a reasonably predictable timeline for potential recovery, assuming his 100% recovery (even moreso, regaining 100% functionality) is premature based on the available info.

Not even Dr. Cooper has given Jaylon a guarantee for full recovery and rightfully so.

 

[windjc]

Clearly you don't have a clue of what you're reading, but just see three and four syllable words and equate that to mean something.

Sz obviously knows about 100 times more than you and you keep responding like you actually know something and its painfully obvious to us reading all you have is clippings from the interwebs.

Give it up. Read, learn and be quiet please.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Sz obviously knows about 100 times more than you and you keep responding like you actually know something and its painfully obvious to us reading all you have is clippings from the interwebs.

Give it up. Read, learn and be quiet please.

Witty.

Again, you're devoid of understanding what you're reading.

It could say "the myelin sheath reinnervates the flux capacitor" and you'd heehaw "wooohoo, you got owned again CalPoly!"

 

[windjc]

Witty.

Again, you're devoid of understanding what you're reading.

It could say "the myelin sheath reinnervates the flux capacitor" and you'd heehaw "wooohoo, you got owned again CalPoly!"

Nope. I understand exactly what both of you are saying. And that's why I can confirm to you that you are looking like a Grade 1 idiot atm.

BTW, nothing is life is 100% guaranteed, so if you think your little disclaimer at the end of every other one of your posts obscures you from looking silly, it does not.

 

[AzorAhai]

Would have preferred had he said reinnervated. Now I have to wonder if he is speaking to the layman or if he just means Jaylon feels good about it.

I would love to see the look on Jerry's face and the nonsense he spews while acting like he knew exactly what you were saying. That would be entertainment.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Nope. I understand exactly what both of you are saying. And that's why I can confirm to you that you are looking like a Grade 1 idiot atm.

BTW, nothing is life is 100% guaranteed, so if you think your little disclaimer at the end of every other one of your posts obscures you from looking silly, it does not.

Nah, you're clearly at your capacity and trying to champion (ignorantly) someone you feel is more intelligent to speak for you because you're unable to yourself.

Classic trait of the GED crowd.

Feel free to dispute anything I've said on the topic.

You were asking me earlier about charlatans; thanks for self-reporting yourself.

 

[csirl]

The injury is more than just the nerve. Wasn't it a major knee blowout? Some athletes are never the same afterwards even with no nerve damage.

I keep thinking about Robert Edwards - Zeke like in his rookie year. Very ordinary after his pro bowl injury.

 

[waving monkey]

Jerry speak.....rejuvenated feelings.....is it a metaphor.....this doesn't tell me much actually, but if it is a good sign on his way to 100% recovery then great.
But save it for the off season from here out. As I want to hear...he is ready to compete and play....

It sounds like when my old girl friend came back to me

 

[waving monkey]

Doctorate Program in Physical Therapy taking elective courses in neurological/nerve rehab. I've been practicing and interpreting nerve conduction studies, electromyography and nerve regeneration for the past 2 semesters. Pretty cool stuff.

Then again it takes the worry away from Jaylon. There is only one type of nerve injury (potentially a second) that would prevent a full recovery in Jaylon under 2 years.Both of these nerve injury types would be easily identifiable by the surgeon on Jaylon.

A nerve fires, in an "all or nothing" pattern. It will either fire, or it won't. So Jerry is still hyping it up. There is no "kind of firing" .

He will be able to fire his nerve soon. Very similiar to the roots of a plant, the nerve will regenerate its axon (the root) and then regenerate its myelin (the covering over the axon) , then all will be good. It just is a matter of time before it happens, but it will happen.

He will be able to run just as fast as before, but he will need to practice turning the muscle on and off through timing/activation training in the offseason, so any hope of the superbowl is doubtful.

thanks "Szczepanik crzy name

 

[Wood]

I listened to Jerry interview on Jaylon Smith and I didn't come away convinced. If anything I feel worse about it. We are starting to get late in the game here with Jaylon foot drop resolving. This draft has been so good and really want Jaylon to surprise me but I am getting worried here.

 

[DandyDon52]

exactly, they drafted him so sure they are going to put a positive spin on it lol.
lets see if he is in TC next year !

 

[Alexander]

These threads are only now entertaining due to the pseudo-experts trying to one up each other.

 

[DogFace]

Sz obviously knows about 100 times more than you and you keep responding like you actually know something and its painfully obvious to us reading all you have is clippings from the interwebs.

Give it up. Read, learn and be quiet please.

 

[Stash]

Poop starter...

Truly! What kind of an example does this set for the rest of us?

 

[Carson]

I feel like these Jaylon Smith threads are becoming the "folllow jerrys plane during free agency" back in the day

 

[cowboyblue22]

another time when jerry should of just keep quiet.

 

[Bleu Star]

When Dr. Jerry speaks, people listen...

E.F. Hutton