DMN JJT Blog: Montrae Holland makes good first impression

[Bob Sacamano]

Close enough. It stands.

:rake:

try...aGAIN

 

[DaBoys4Life]

did you come up with that one all by yourself.....

 

[couchscout]

He isn't new to the position. He just need to remember what he did with the saints. He also isn't making an adjustment from College to the NFL. He is a veteran NFL lineman who has been in man to man blocking for the majority of his career. All he needs to do basically is put a body on the closet guy hold up at the point of attack and don't let anyone get passed him.

You do realize that different team run all different types of schemes, with all different terminology right? Im sure the Saints have 15 runs in thier playbook we dont, and the same goes for us. A: It would be impossible for him to "remember" the plays with the Saints when he had to learn most likely over 2,000 play variations while with Denver, and learn an entirely new way of blocking as well. B: Even if he could remember the plays, the terminology is gonna be different, so it doesnt really help.

And...the last part, about leanining on the nearest guy and dont let him get past....are you kidding? Seriously, you have to be kidding me with that? Lets say the nearest guy is Shaun Rogers, and Montrae leans on him and stands him up stone cold just like you asked him to. However, the Browns had a stunt on, and the RE is charging into his gap, Flozell is sitting on the outside waiting for Shaun Rogers because he knows his assingment when they stunt. Meanwhile, Montrae keeps holding up Shaun Rogers like you asked him to, but while thats happening, Will Smith hits Romo so hard Jessica feels it in the stands. Is that really what you want? There is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more to pass protection that blocking the closest guy to you. WAY more. You would do very well to grasp that concept.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

school is truly in session

get him couchscout

 

[DaBoys4Life]

You do realize that different team run all different types of schemes, with all different terminology right? Im sure the Saints have 15 runs in thier playbook we dont, and the same goes for us. A: It would be impossible for him to "remember" the plays with the Saints when he had to learn most likely over 2,000 play variations while with Denver, and learn an entirely new way of blocking as well. B: Even if he could remember the plays, the terminology is gonna be different, so it doesnt really help.

And...the last part, about leanining on the nearest guy and dont let him get past....are you kidding? Seriously, you have to be kidding me with that? Lets say the nearest guy is Shaun Rogers, and Montrae leans on him and stands him up stone cold just like you asked him to. However, the Browns had a stunt on, and the RE is charging into his gap, Flozell is sitting on the outside waiting for Shaun Rogers because he knows his assingment when they stunt. Meanwhile, Montrae keeps holding up Shaun Rogers like you asked him to, but while thats happening, Will Smith hits Romo so hard Jessica feels it in the stands. Is that really what you want? There is WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more to pass protection that blocking the closest guy to you. WAY more. You would do very well to grasp that concept.

So I don't get why he would even engage Rogers on a pass play in a run to his side that would be more feasible. I guess you also missed the part where I said don't let any one get passed him. I'm not sure if the DE would be in Hollands face. Wouldn't the DE loop around their NT that would be shooting the gap or do they do it both way?S

 

[couchscout]

So I don't get why he would even engage Rogers on a pass play in a run to his side that would be more feasible. I guess you also missed the part where I said hold up at the point of attack and don't let any one get passed him. I'm not sure if the DE would be in Hollands face. Wouldn't the DE loop around their NT that would be shooting the gap or do they do it both way?S

Your exact words "All he needs to do basically is put a body on the closet guy hold up at the point of attack and don't let anyone get passed him." With the "put a body on the closest guy" being the optimal part of that sentence. What Im trying to tell you, is that no matter how you try to put it, it just flat out is not that simple. Ok, basic stunt, the DT (In this case Shaun Rogers) lines up usually in the gap between center and guard. The DE (In his case most likely Corey Williams...the Will Smith reference was wrong, I was thinking Saints for some reason) lines up heads up on the DE, or sometimes shaded on the outide. At the snap, the DT rushes to the outside, crossing the Gs face, hoping to drag him out, while the DE loops over into the spot hopefully vacated by the G. A team typically picks this particular stunt by having the OT and OG switch men basically. However, different schemes means different things, and while that switch is the easist to pull off, there are about 15 different other possible ways to pick that up. Not to mention the probably 40 different stunt types. All of which have at least 15 different pick ups, thats not accounting for blitzes, which an NFL team can expect to have anywhere from 10-50 in a normal gameplan. And again, all with massive numbers of different variations for how to pick them up, who picks up which guy, etc. Plain and simple...PASS PROTECTION IS NOT SIMPLE. Pass protection is very very complicated and takes a lot of time to learn, and an extreme amount of time working together to master. I understand that you wanna get the guy in the game, we all do, but it just isnt feasilble. Yeah, with Proctor he might (and likely will) get pushed back into Romos lap, but thats much much better than picking up the wrong guy and giving D'Qwell Jackson an unblocked running headstart at our starting QB. Do you want Brad playing the second half on Sunday? I sure dont.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Your exact words "All he needs to do basically is put a body on the closet guy hold up at the point of attack and don't let anyone get passed him." With the "put a body on the closest guy" being the optimal part of that sentence. What Im trying to tell you, is that no matter how you try to put it, it just flat out is not that simple. Ok, basic stunt, the DT (In this case Shaun Rogers) lines up usually in the gap between center and guard. The DE (In his case most likely Corey Williams...the Will Smith reference was wrong, I was thinking Saints for some reason) lines up heads up on the DE, or sometimes shaded on the outide. At the snap, the DT rushes to the outside, crossing the Gs face, hoping to drag him out, while the DE loops over into the spot hopefully vacated by the G. A team typically picks this particular stunt by having the OT and OG switch men basically. However, different schemes means different things, and while that switch is the easist to pull off, there are about 15 different other possible ways to pick that up. Not to mention the probably 40 different stunt types. All of which have at least 15 different pick ups, thats not accounting for blitzes, which an NFL team can expect to have anywhere from 10-50 in a normal gameplan. And again, all with massive numbers of different variations for how to pick them up, who picks up which guy, etc. Plain and simple...PASS PROTECTION IS NOT SIMPLE. Pass protection is very very complicated and takes a lot of time to learn, and an extreme amount of time working together to master. I understand that you wanna get the guy in the game, we all do, but it just isnt feasilble. Yeah, with Proctor he might (and likely will) get pushed back into Romos lap, but thats much much better than picking up the wrong guy and giving D'Qwell Jackson an unblocked running headstart at our starting QB. Do you want Brad playing the second half on Sunday? I sure dont.

well with proctor as the starting LG Brad might be starting in the second half. If he gets fooled on a stunt because he is in a new system and the terminology is different than thats a shame. What I am trying to stress is the stuff he would see is something he has seen before and something that he knows how to react and should be able to handle no matter what the scheme is. If thats to much to ask for then sorry excuse the **** out of me .I'm off to bed know so peace

 

[silverbear]

It depends on a lot of different things so I don't think is even a fair question. Maybe if you narrowed down your extremely broad question some I could come up with a legitimate response

Uhhh, explain the differences in terminology for the left guard playing in a zone blocking scheme as opposed to a man blocking scheme isn't specific enough for you?? Hell, I was even more specific than that; I challenged you to explain the differences in terminology for the left guard playing in the BRONCOS' zone blocking scheme as opposed to the COWBOYS' man blocking scheme...

You see, I figured you'd pull exactly this sort of lame crapola to avoid having to answer my challenge, so I deliberately made it this specific...

It's OK, though, you don't have to answer, and everybody (and I do mean everybody) knows you won't, because you CAN'T...

Which kind of renders your oh-so-certain opinions expressed in this thread rather less than convincing, wouldn't you say??

So I've pretty much accomplished what I set out to do...

 

[silverbear]

He isn't new to the position. He just need to remember what he did with the saints.

I guess you think if you can speak Spanish, you can communicate in Italian too... I mean, they're KIND OF the same, aren't they??

Your assumption that the Saints' schemes and terminology are identical enough to the Cowboys' to make this statement valid only demonstrates-- once again-- that you really don't know jack about the game of football...

 

[silverbear]

I think if i start posting lame jokes that only I get maybe I can be cool like you.

It's rather difficult, some would say impossible, to be a card-carrying member of the Cool Club and a card-carrying member of the Loony's Club at the same time...

Sorry, you're gonna have to choose one or the other...

 

[silverbear]

did you come up with that one all by yourself.....

You need some new material, you're starting to repeat yourself... such repitition comes with a risk, that you make yourself appear dim-witted...

And that ship may already have sailed for you...

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Uhhh, explain the differences in terminology for the left guard playing in a zone blocking scheme as opposed to a man blocking scheme isn't specific enough for you?? Hell, I was even more specific than that; I challenged you to explain the differences in terminology for the left guard playing in the BRONCOS' zone blocking scheme as opposed to the COWBOYS' man blocking scheme...

You see, I figured you'd pull exactly this sort of lame crapola to avoid having to answer my challenge, so I deliberately made it this specific...

It's OK, though, you don't have to answer, and everybody (and I do mean everybody) knows you won't, because you CAN'T...

Which kind of renders your oh-so-certain opinions expressed in this thread rather less than convincing, wouldn't you say??

So I've pretty much accomplished what I set out to do...

What are you talking about there's a big difference if its a run play or a pass if its a run to his side or not. If its a sweep or toss to the outside. IF their is a LB in front of him or a D line. 4-3 or 3-4 there's a big difference so you question doesn't get answered because it vague and ambiguous. What the hell do you want me to say Denver does a lot of chop blocks so thats a key difference

I guess you think if you can speak Spanish, you can communicate in Italian too... I mean, they're KIND OF the same, aren't they??

Your assumption that the Saints' schemes and terminology are identical enough to the Cowboys' to make this statement valid only demonstrates-- once again-- that you really con't know jack about the game of football...

No you fail and you're very lame I grow tired of people saying I don't have any football knowledge because I think differently from them you just go some where else.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Are you serious??? SB was damn clear and yet you still failed to answer the question. You are foolish to think that there is no real difference between zone blocking and what we run. What are you 12?

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Are you serious??? SB was damn clear and yet you still failed to answer the question. You are foolish to think that there is no real difference between zone blocking and what we run. What are you 12?

dude stop riding people coat tail.

 

[CowboyStar88]

Lmao! Riding peoples coat tails? Is that the best you can do? Please enlighten us. I wasted 20 mins of my life that I will never get back reading this thread and your idiotic reasoning. Hell SilverBear made this thread even more entertaining when he called you out. Heck CouchScout even gave you an out by actually teaching you something about football. You should've saved face then. But my guess is you truely don't know anything about the game or your acting a fool to get attention. Just an FYI your making yourself look stupid. Save face now and just admit that your arguement is not valid or answer the question with cold hard facts and everyone else look foolish. The choice is yours.

 

[EPL0c0]

Very good to hear. He has the right attitude and definitely a smart/saavy guy. Great pick up for Dallas

 

[couchscout]

What are you talking about there's a big difference if its a run play or a pass if its a run to his side or not. If its a sweep or toss to the outside. IF their is a LB in front of him or a D line. 4-3 or 3-4 there's a big difference so you question doesn't get answered because it vague and ambiguous. What the hell do you want me to say Denver does a lot of chop blocks so thats a key difference

Ok, Im gonna try to one more time to help you understand. First things first, I want to point out that you are arguing with fact. Which is just about the most impossible thing to do. Its like trying to argue that if you flap your arms really fast that you can fly, and when everyone is presenting you with evidence to the contrary, you just say "yes I can, dont get mad cause I think differently than you". It is a FACT that NFL playbooks are extremely complicated, with thousands of play variations. It is a FACT that knowing your assignment for a lineman is absolutely imperative.

Second, I just wanna point out exactly how contradictory your argument is. Repeatedly you have stated that all he has to do is block the guy in front of him, or closest to him and everything will be ok. That is exactly what the Cowboys and HH are trying to teach him NOT to do. That is Denvers scheme, that's what zone blocking is, you have a zone in front of you that you are supposed to not let anyone penetrate into. If no one threatens your zone, you move downfield and get to the second level. In Dallas scheme, its a MAN scheme, which means you specifically have someone you have to block, and its not always the guy in right front of you, the most obvious guy, or the guy you would think you should block on a given play. In fact, the very best running attacks use many many different blocking variations to throw off the defense, AND, the LG just so happens to be the one who has the craziest assignments because he 99% of the time the uncovered lineman.

Offensive line play, despite its brutal nature, and rugged appearance is very very choreographed. Im talking all the way to the most minute detail. Everything from exactly, and I mean EXACTLY how far apart you spread your feet, and how far your left foot should be from the guy next to you's right foot, to which foot your supposed to step with first, and in which direction. If they feel the need to choreograph those tiny tiny little details, you dont think there is a chance they choreograph the rest of the play to the max? I assure you they do.

Lets go through a very very simple dive play. Lets do a weakside dive so Montrae will play a key role. The idea of this play is to get Barber through the A gap, between Montrae and Gurode. We'll do this out of a standard strong right I formation. The most basic way to block this play is to have Bigg release to get the backside ILB, Colombo handles the backside DE, Witten handles the backside OLB. Playside, Flozell drives the playside DE out, while Cricket kicks out the playside OLB. Then, Montrae and Gurode double on the DT, with Montrae releasing to the second level after a split second delay. Now, I can think of 9 other completely different ways to block that play, and Montrae has someone different to block on 5 of them. The Cowboys most likely use 3 or 4 variations of the simple dive run versus a standard 3-4. If Montrae doesnt go get his guy, Barber gets lit up in the backfield. Its not about "just blocking the guy in front of you". I would bet anything, there are at least 500 run variations in the Cowboys playbook, there is no way he can memorize them all in one week.

Last thing, real quick. The thing you seem to forget the most in this whole thing is terminology. Even if the Cowboys and Saints blocked everything the exact same way (which they dont), the terminology would be completely different, he still wouldnt understand what the playcall was in the huddle. You have to know your assignment as an OL....please take it from me man, as I told you before, I was a offensive line coach for 5 years. If there is one thing I really get, its offensive line play.

 

[Zaxor]

I really don't understand why he can't be ready for week 1.

It is not quite as easy as that... patience is called for here or we could wind up losing Tony for the year.

 

[MONT17]

Let's jus call this what it is this is poor talent evaluation. Ppl cryin about blockin assignments and who should start when the real issue is How does a guy who basicly gets cut by the sorry broncos come to a super bowl wannabe week 1 and starts on the ol. Holland starting makes the entire camp a sad joke that noone wants hear. Last week jerry was saying his phone is ringing off the hook now his 13 win team cuts players many teams don't want including fan favs like amendola. Then he turns around and sign rejects from much lower teams out of need and the list grows. So instead of addressing the obvious we hide our true concern with bs and backnforth slights. You don't see the colts n pats have guys come in and start u r not fans of the coltsnpats this is the dallas cowboys and this is how things are done. the colts n pats r run by proven winners/cheater. U can bring up schemes all u want ur but that's for real teams with real gms actually u r really pissed because u have to make another excuse for camp marshmallow and jerrys poor evaluation of his own talent! Let me just say this in thank god holland has a sweet tooth or we would be going on about who of the 3 stooges should start n not why is a guy off the streets starting.

 

[adbutcher]

Stop thinking.

Judas.

Clearly he knows very little about football and absolutely nothing about defensive and offensive line play. Give it a rest bro because you will never convince someone who is arguing from a point of ignorance.