News: DMN: Michael Irvin: Sorry Jerry Rice, but I didn’t need stickum when I played

[Hook'em#11]

Meh, Irvin did other bad things while he played, so I'm team ignore the false self-righteousness from his side of the wing. lol

I am on Irvin's side. He didn't need any assistance catching the ball on the field..

 

[Sportsbabe]

What receiver doesn't.

 

[Sportsbabe]

I believe we need to stop holding entertainers/sports figures to a higher standard than most. The only difference between us and them is they have a talent that we don't have and their "flaws and all" are put on display for everyone to see, pontificate and debate.

You're right about the the higher standard & all..they do live under a microscope & that has to be ver y hard.

However I like to think they all realize that comes with the territory. It just does.

So act right in public & don't do anything that would embarrass your Mama. Or your wife.

I'm always disappointed when I hear something bad about somebody I like. Actor, athlete.[/quote]

I used to be "shocked" (for lack of a better word). But the longer I lived and experienced life ... I began to know better. I understood/understand life happens to us all. I began to understand that only by .... I'll use the word happenstance .... that it's them and not me in that situation. More times than not it's choices made .... but a lot of times its access. Drop a lot of us in those same situations and like TO would say "get your popcorn ready" because it's about to go down.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

It would probably have been best had Michael not said anything.

Jerry too. I still cannot figure out why he'd admit to that!

 

[mldardy]

Jerry too. I still cannot figure out why he'd admit to that!

Yeah I don't either. I think because he said everyone else did it then he felt ok admitting it and it has backfired.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I'm a girl and I unequivocally support Michael on this one. Also agree with your HOF speech point.

I believe we need to stop holding entertainers/sports figures to a higher standard than most. The only difference between us and them is they have a talent that we don't have and their "flaws and all" are put on display for everyone to see, pontificate and debate.

I don't.

I'd find any regular joe to be pretty stupid if he was putting his family, and job, at risk or after doing coke, strippers, and other stupid crap.

The only real difference here is that if you went into your place of work and stabbed, or cut, a co-workers neck with sissors you'd be going to jail.

He got to remain free.

 

[BoysFan4ever]

Yeah I don't either. I think because he said everyone else did it then he felt ok admitting it and it has backfired.

He was before my time but I think,from reading & hearing about him that he is considered the best of all time or at minimum on a very short list of all time.

Jerry opened his mouth & inserted his foot I think. He needs to just hush up & live on those laurels.

 

[Idgit]

As for the topic at hand I get what WG was speaking about.

It's really hilarious that Irvin would act all shocked or anything that anyone would dare to ask him if he did anything like this during his career. The dude did all kinds of stupid things off the field so it's not too far of a stretch for people to wonder if he cheated on the field.

The guy used pushing off, and then elbowing defends with a quick elbow after they took the push off away, as a way to gain the advantage of better separation.

It's just dumb for Michael to act all offended or anything by this.

Jerry Rice used stickem to gain an advantage on the field. Shame on him for cheating his profession, along with the hundreds of others who did the exact same thing to cheat their profession.

But Mike, really, in the grand scheme of things the stupid crap you did in cheating your wife and family, not to even mention your teammates by getting suspended, is on a whole other level of stupid than what Rice did.

I gotta say, there's a pretty clear distinction in my mind between using drugs and cheating in a football game. While I can obviously understand the argument, for a lot of guys--and I think Irvin is very, very definitely in this group--the man v. man, personal nature of sports competitions is kind of a sacred thing. You have that obligation to do whatever you can to do your best--and that extends to things like positioning yourself with your hands and elbows to catch the ball. And the other guy has an obligation to give his best to stop you. That's why you work so hard in practice you throw up, and then go back and work some more. It's why you play RB with a separated shoulder. It's why, when you're lying on your back in Philly and can't feel your legs and you hear the low-lives booing you, you take that as a compliment. To cheat in such a situation is worse than breaking drug or vice law because it's a mark against your notion of yourself as a competitor and as a man. Heck, I kind of agree with him. And I can definitely see how, with his personality he'd feel that way.

Now, if you pointed out to him that that might be inconsistent with his off the field activities, he'd probably laugh and tell you you have a point, too. But it's still not the same thing.

 

[gimmesix]

Aah, but you missed my other post where I said I was side-eyeing Jerry Rice now. I'm not picking and choosing. I don't believe I've commented on any other threads on this subject. Jerry tarnished on his own image, but my whole line of convo in this thread was about Irvin.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think just because you've done wrong things it removes your right to comment when others admit to doing wrong.

Irvin has received plenty of negative publicity for his past. He's admitted to past mistakes in his life and deserves whatever condemnation he receives for them. None of that makes his condemnation of what Rice did any less valid. Rice is held up as one of the players who did it right and for him to admit that he cheated opens him up to criticism from players who did not, who tried to play within the rules in their careers.

I don't have much respect for Irvin for his personal choices, but I have immense respect for him as a player. Rice has deservedly lost some of that respect as a player based on his admission.

 

[Sportsbabe]

I don't.

I'd find any regular joe to be pretty stupid if he was putting his family, and job, at risk or after doing coke, strippers, and other stupid crap.

The only real difference here is that if you went into your place of work and stabbed, or cut, a co-workers neck with sissors you'd be going to jail.

He got to remain free.

Lord knows I didn't want to get into this debate about the article, but I must correct you on this one ... as Woody Girl said, she thought she was crystal clear and so did I. There is no where in my post or in this article any mention of his family, doing coke, strippers or any other "stupid crap" as you put it. So therefore, I was not, did not, and am not saying I "unequivocally support Michael in that. My comments and support are in regards to the subject and content of the article.

 

[jazzcat22]

.

Yep, I'm staying out of this one too...

 

[Sportsbabe]

Exactly. Off-the-field stuff has nothing to do with this conversation. This is purely an on-the-field topic. If Irvin accused Rice of being a bad person or stated that he (Irvin) was a choir boy, then Irvin's off-the field history matters. This is about playing the game of football. Ray Lewis was a great football player. He clearly had some serious issues off the field. If Ray Lewis is commenting on someone's playing ability, why would I bring up his involvement in a murder? Now if he started going into one of his holy roller rants, then I'd want him to shut the hell up since he obstructed justice in a murder case. He clearly wasn't being all religious or whatever when police were trying to solve a murder. I wonder how he'd feel if someone obstructed justice when trying to solve the murder of one of his loved ones.

 

[WV Cowboy]

We know you didn't wear stickum, Mike. You wouldn't have been able to push off all those years.

You can't pass a joint with stickem on your fingers.

 

[Fletch]

You can't pass a joint with stickem on your fingers.

You'd definitely be ****** up the rotation.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think just because you've done wrong things it removes your right to comment when others admit to doing wrong.

Irvin has received plenty of negative publicity for his past. He's admitted to past mistakes in his life and deserves whatever condemnation he receives for them. None of that makes his condemnation of what Rice did any less valid. Rice is held up as one of the players who did it right and for him to admit that he cheated opens him up to criticism from players who did not, who tried to play within the rules in their careers.

I don't have much respect for Irvin for his personal choices, but I have immense respect for him as a player. Rice has deservedly lost some of that respect as a player based on his admission.

I don't have an issue with him saying anything regard to the issue, but as I stated in my OP, I can ignore it, too.

 

[cej757]

I think Chris Carter is trying to use this as a way to justify himself as being the best receiver of all time. Maybe Michael Irvin will try to use this angle as well. Thank god T.O. And Jerry Rice are cool because If T.O. Says anything negative about this he will get killed for it.

I would like to hear what Sterling Sharpe has to say about this because after Jerry he and Michael were fighting for the number 2 receiver spot in that era.

 

[tyke1doe]

Sigh.

These "if you have faults you can't speak about other people's faults" is one of the weakest arguments around and, quite frankly, is impractical.

If it were true, then we couldn't weigh in on ANY topic, and we couldn't call attention to bad behavior at all. That means parents couldn't correct their children because they aren't perfect themselves. Society couldn't condemn bad behavior because everyone in society behaves badly, etc.

The issue isn't PERFECTION but RESPONSIBILITY.

Perfection says, "If you're not perfect, you have no right to comment."
Responsibility says, "Even though you're not perfect, we expect you to act responsible in the areas of life that involve and impact others."

I am not perfect. Neither is anyone posting. But some people are more RESPONSIBLE than others, depending on the situation and context.
Just because someone uses foul language in the course of their day doesn't mean one can use foul language here. And if one is called out for it, one can't say, "Well, you aren't perfect, you have no right to judge me."
Why? Because being a responsible member in this forum means abiding by the rules. The issue isn't perfection, it's responsibility.

In the context of on the football field, some players are more RESPONSIBLE following the rules of the game than they are RESPONSIBLE being husbands, fathers, boyfriends, etc.

When people want to justify wrong doing, often they use the "nobody's perfect; therefore, no one should judge" argument. But that argument should be tossed aside because basically no one lives that way.

Having said that, I respect Woody's Girl opinion (not that she needs my respect). She simply gave her opinion. I don't have a problem with that. People can respond to players as they see fit. I tend to make a distinction between Irvin's off-field issues and his on-field conduct and choose to limit the comparison to the issue at hand, i.e., using stick 'em. Yet, I can understand people who see hypocrisy in Irvin's "self-righteousness." They're entitled to their opinions.

 

[Dave_in-NC]

Can't we get the season started already?

 

[mldardy]

He was before my time but I think,from reading & hearing about him that he is considered the best of all time or at minimum on a very short list of all time.

Jerry opened his mouth & inserted his foot I think. He needs to just hush up & live on those laurels.

Yeah Jerry was great. He had great hands(go figure) and great in the open field with YAC. This stickum thing does make me wonder but I don't know how much this will affect his legacy from here on out. Everyone not only considered him the best WR of all time but best overall player but there has to be a little bit of doubt about that.

 

[Idgit]

I think Chris Carter is trying to use this as a way to justify himself as being the best receiver of all time. Maybe Michael Irvin will try to use this angle as well. Thank god T.O. And Jerry Rice are cool because If T.O. Says anything negative about this he will get killed for it.

I would like to hear what Sterling Sharpe has to say about this because after Jerry he and Michael were fighting for the number 2 receiver spot in that era.

If Rice was using stickum, he was using stickum. It's not an angle. TO would be right to say something negative about it. If he then got killed for that, it's because he brought the backlash on himself by being a giant narcissistic jerk.