Do we expect OL to develop too quickly

[Galian Beast]

I keep thinking about this. We really expect contribution from offensive linemen probably way too quickly. Even for 1st round draft picks, starting day one can be difficult.

David Arkin wasn't drafted in the 1st round, he was a 4th round draft pick from an FCS school in 2011.

People are similarly down a bit on Ron Leary, who was an undrafted free agent last year.

Jeremy Parnell is also a player who the team is apparently high on. The timetable on him is obvious given his level of experience before playing in the nfl.

While the clock is certainly ticking on Arkin. I wouldn't count these guys out too quickly. Too often we've (like Jerry) pushed to rely on veteran free agents here. Players who take a large percentage of the salary cap, and prevent younger players from getting significant reps.

While I still would like for us to replace some of the veterans we already have on this team. I am going to give the team a bit of deference in their attempts to try and develop some of these players.

And note that I'm not suggesting that these players will necessarily work out. I'm just saying that we probably can't keep signing free agents.

 

[TheRomoSexual]

No. You instance, every second round tackle started last season. You may take a lump here and there, but the process is necessary to build a great line. It simply does not happen over night.

 

[Galian Beast]

No. You instance, every second round tackle started last season. You may take a lump here and there, but the process is necessary to build a great line. It simply does not happen over night.

Which second round tackle are you referring to?

We're talking about a 4th round guard, and two undrafted free agents.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I keep thinking about this. We really expect contribution from offensive linemen probably way too quickly. Even for 1st round draft picks, starting day one can be difficult.

David Arkin wasn't drafted in the 1st round, he was a 4th round draft pick from an FCS school in 2011.

People are similarly down a bit on Ron Leary, who was an undrafted free agent last year.

Jeremy Parnell is also a player who the team is apparently high on. The timetable on him is obvious given his level of experience before playing in the nfl.

While the clock is certainly ticking on Arkin. I wouldn't count these guys out too quickly. Too often we've (like Jerry) pushed to rely on veteran free agents here. Players who take a large percentage of the salary cap, and prevent younger players from getting significant reps.

While I still would like for us to replace some of the veterans we already have on this team. I am going to give the team a bit of deference in their attempts to try and develop some of these players.

And note that I'm not suggesting that these players will necessarily work out. I'm just saying that we probably can't keep signing free agents.

This. I've been saying that Free will be around until camp until someone outplays him. Even then he will go into the season as the swing tackle if no one beats him.

I also think that the competition at guard will be very good this training camp and the line will be much improved because of it. If Leary and Arkin have worked on their weaknesses, I see no reason why they can't compete for a job. Same goes for Kowalski. The o-line will not be great but they can be consistent.

 

[Galian Beast]

This. I've been saying that Free will be around until camp until someone outplays him. Even then he will go into the season as the swing tackle if no one beats him.

I also think that the competition at guard will be very good this training camp and the line will be much improved because of it. If Leary and Arkin have worked on their weaknesses, I see no reason why they can't compete for a job. Same goes for Kowalski. The o-line will not be great but they can be consistent.

I believe this is why they want Free to take a paycut rather than signing someone to replace him. They simply don't want to put any more money into the position. That being said, I don't like the rumors regarding his pay cut. a 3.5 million he is still vastly too expensive (unless that refers to his total cap hit, which would mean they want him to take the vet minimum).

 

[tm1119]

The real question is whether these guys have the talent to develop or not. I understand what you are saying about not throwing a bunch of $ at stop gap veterans, but compiling UDFA's and small school projects isn't the answer either. I don't see hope for Arkin, its never a good sign when guys are being brought in off the street to play over you. Leary? Ehh maybe he can be ok, but I highly doubt he's going to be our savior. Just another guy in all likelyhood. Parnell has the tools, so yes he may be worth the development time. This is probably his last year as well though. If he doesn't grab ahold of the starting spot this year I highly doubt he ever will.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

I believe this is why they want Free to take a paycut rather than signing someone to replace him. They simply don't want to put any more money into the position. That being said, I don't like the rumors regarding his pay cut. a 3.5 million he is still vastly too expensive (unless that refers to his total cap hit, which would mean they want him to take the vet minimum).

Once again I agree.

Free is a valuable commodity to the Cowboys but it has been a costly investment. Free has a role on this team but it is still unclear what that role is because of his unreliability. I think he will be given an opportunity to fight for his job; if he loses, he either takes the pay cut (as a backup) or he is gone.

 

[DBOY3141]

No. You instance, every second round tackle started last season. You may take a lump here and there, but the process is necessary to build a great line. It simply does not happen over night.

In this years draft here are the OL taken in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Who would you have taken, that would start this year for the Cowboys over who the Cowboys drafted.

2nd round - only OL taken was Menick Watson by the Raiders who picked before the Cowboys

3rd round - Larry Warford, Brian Winters went before the Cowboys 3rd round pick. Armstead, Dallas Thomas, Hugh Thornton and Brennan Williams went after the Cowboys 1st 3rd round pick.

I think after the run in the 1st round on OL, that the entire NFL backed off big time picking OL. Only 1 in the entire 2nd round, and only 2 tackles in the 3rd.

 

[burmafrd]

The real question is whether these guys have the talent to develop or not. I understand what you are saying about not throwing a bunch of $ at stop gap veterans, but compiling UDFA's and small school projects isn't the answer either. I don't see hope for Arkin, its never a good sign when guys are being brought in off the street to play over you. Leary? Ehh maybe he can be ok, but I highly doubt he's going to be our savior. Just another guy in all likelyhood. Parnell has the tools, so yes he may be worth the development time. This is probably his last year as well though. If he doesn't grab ahold of the starting spot this year I highly doubt he ever will.

Parnell might get more time. He has only 2 years, really as a tackle, he was a TE in college and with the saints.

 

[Galian Beast]

Patriots offensive line will cost them:

LT - 2,329,225
LG - 10,000,000
C - 1,015,000
RG - 3,333,333
RT - 3,000,000

Total starting line - 19.7 million dollars

Our offensive line
LT- 3,408,027
LG - 1,736,250
C - TBD
RG - 2,039,166
RT - 10,020,000

Without Frederick- 17.2 million

We're paying nearly as much as the Patriots do, but certainly not getting the same production.

If we cut Free we could save 7 million this year, so that takes us down to 10.2 million + Frederick.

Add 3.5 million for someone like Eric Winston and we're at 13.7 million But next year we get hit with another 7 million in dead money. We haven't developed Parnell, and we're probably stuck paying a tackle more money again. I doubt Eric Winston signs a one year deal on the cheap.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Parnell might get more time. He has only 2 years, really as a tackle, he was a TE in college and with the saints.

Parnell may not be the answer but he has history on his side. Some pretty good football players began their careers as basketball players -- that includes Rayfield Wright. Now I don't know that Parnell will become the next Rayfield but you can't say its never been done.

 

[IrishAnto]

I keep thinking about this. We really expect contribution from offensive linemen probably way too quickly. Even for 1st round draft picks, starting day one can be difficult.

David Arkin wasn't drafted in the 1st round, he was a 4th round draft pick from an FCS school in 2011.

People are similarly down a bit on Ron Leary, who was an undrafted free agent last year.

Jeremy Parnell is also a player who the team is apparently high on. The timetable on him is obvious given his level of experience before playing in the nfl.

While the clock is certainly ticking on Arkin. I wouldn't count these guys out too quickly. Too often we've (like Jerry) pushed to rely on veteran free agents here. Players who take a large percentage of the salary cap, and prevent younger players from getting significant reps.

While I still would like for us to replace some of the veterans we already have on this team. I am going to give the team a bit of deference in their attempts to try and develop some of these players.

And note that I'm not suggesting that these players will necessarily work out. I'm just saying that we probably can't keep signing free agents.

I do expect most players taken in the 4th round and later to take some time to develop (not just the OL) however the Boy’s record of getting any OL taken outside the first two rounds these last 15+ years to develop is appalling.

I think the problem is more of talent evaluation than lack of patience.

 

[Galian Beast]

I do expect most players taken in the 4th round and later to take some time to develop (not just the OL) however the Boy’s record of getting any OL taken outside the first two rounds these last 15+ years to develop is appalling.

I think the problem is more of talent evaluation than lack of patience.

I think the later you go in the draft the more difficult it is to find a suitable player. I don't think we've drafted all that many offensive linemen in the middle rounds either.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

David Arkin wasn't drafted in the 1st round, he was a 4th round draft pick from an FCS school in 2011.

I agree that expecting Arkin to start prior to this season was unrealistic from the beggining, but he clearly should've shown more by now. He has been out matched in pre season games and should've been good enough to be the 3rd guard last year (keep in mind, 3rd guard out of a bad group of guards).

People are similarly down a bit on Ron Leary, who was an undrafted free agent last year.

I think people just don't see the upside on him. But considering he was an UDFA, I don't see how people can be "down" on him

Jeremy Parnell is also a player who the team is apparently high on. The timetable on him is obvious given his level of experience before playing in the nfl.

This is his 5th season coming up and quite frankly, he hasn't shown that he's any better than Free. I know he was raw coming out of college, but he should have shown more by now. whiffing on blockers in a goaline set and getting beat just as much as Free, doesn't inspire confidence.

 

[conner01]

i think parnell has shown enough to say he is developing
i don't think arkin has showed anything at all
leary has'nt played so we don't know what he can do but you have to develope some of these younger and cheaper guys with the cap like it is. you have no choice

 

[Galian Beast]

I agree that expecting Arkin to start prior to this season was unrealistic from the beggining, but he clearly should've shown more by now. He has been out matched in pre season games and should've been good enough to be the 3rd guard last year (keep in mind, 3rd guard out of a bad group of guards).

Preseason is a pretty small sample. And that's like saying Miles Austin should have beaten out Roy Williams. Yet we all know it took an injury to make it happen. Same with DeMarco Murray.


I think people just don't see the upside on him. But considering he was an UDFA, I don't see how people can be "down" on him

People have little faith that he can become a starter.


This is his 5th season coming up and quite frankly, he hasn't shown that he's any better than Free. I know he was raw coming out of college, but he should have shown more by now. whiffing on blockers in a goaline set and getting beat just as much as Free, doesn't inspire confidence

Raw barely covers it. After 8th grade, he has played one year of football, which was his senior year in college. Most players come to the NFL with at least 7-8 years of football experience.

 

[IrishAnto]

I think the later you go in the draft the more difficult it is to find a suitable player. I don't think we've drafted all that many offensive linemen in the middle rounds either.

True enough, but I do expect them to able to properly evaluate 3rd and 4th rounders, I mean it’s not that late in a draft especially since the draft is only 7 rounds deep (as opposed to the 12 rounds the last time the Cowboys won anything).

But outside of Free nada!

 

[xwalker]

Bradie James was a 4th round pick and didn't start until his 3rd year.

Parnell has developed as much as a player can develop without playing. A player can only develop to a certain point with just practice and preseason games. Parnell had never played OT in a real game until Tyron was injured in week 11 of 2012. The fact that he was as good and possibly better than Free with Zero prior experience is impressive, IMO.

 

[DBOY3141]

Bradie James was a 4th round pick and didn't start until his 3rd year.

Parnell has developed as much as a player can develop without playing. A player can only develop to a certain point with just practice and preseason games. Parnell had never played OT in a real game until Tyron was injured in week 11 of 2012. The fact that he was as good and possibly better than Free with Zero prior experience is impressive, IMO.

Yes it is and I think he will be fine in 2013.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Preseason is a pretty small sample. And that's like saying Miles Austin should have beaten out Roy Williams. Yet we all know it took an injury to make it happen. Same with DeMarco Murray.

No, not what I'm saying. Never said Arkin should've started, which would've been the case if Austin had beat out Roy Williams or Patrick Crayton. I'm saying he should've been the third out of four guards, the one active on game days. If you ranked the interior linemen, it would look something like this: Livings, Bernadeau, Costa, Cook, Dockery, Leary, Kilowaski and then Arkin

To my knowledge Austin was never that low among recievers and he was undrafted....

People have little faith that he can become a starter.

And so did all 32 teams, which is why he went undrafted. And considering he has a knee condition that makes teams believe he will have a short career, how much time do you invest in the guy? He's cheap, and not a "progress stopper" so I'm ok with him and not really down on him. If he beats out Livings or Bernadeu, that's great, but just not holding my breath

Raw barely covers it. After 8th grade, he has played one year of football, which was his senior year in college. Most players come to the NFL with at least 7-8 years of football experience.

yea, he's raw, but so are other players. my problem here is there's no one for him to compete with. make him earn a starting spot, and not by competing against Free