Do We Overrate Newman?

[Chocolate Lab]

Looks like he holds up pretty well against some good company to me. But you would never know it listening to reputation and word of mouth, because no one bothers to actually look this stuff up (other than Adam). Which makes it all the more sad that CB's are evaluated solely by word of mouth and reputation.

Exactly.

What's odd to me is that a lot of times, this rep gets started when a player is a very high draft pick. That's how Bailey (Hall, too) got his start as flashy name, because he was a top 10 pick. But Newman was even a higher draft pick than Bailey, and is almost a carbon copy of Champ physically -- except Newman has even gaudier track times. He also played some offense in college like Champ, and he played for a top-5 ranked program.

Yet for some reason, Newman didn't get any of the publicity that Bailey got. In fact, he's probably the least-known good corner in the game, and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because Kansas State, even though a top program at the time, was a relatively anonymous school on the plains? Maybe because Parcells' hiring in 2003 got all the press? I'm not sure.

But like you say, you'd think that by now more national media people would actually have done some research and watched some game tape. I guess that's too much work for them.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Are you arguing that Newman is not regarded by many on here as the best cover corner in football?

No, I'm pointing out your wild generalization, just like I said.

 

[BigDFan5]

Are you arguing that Newman is not regarded by many on here as the best cover corner in football?

People say last year he was the best coverage corner in football, that is true, he was.

you took that as people saying he was the best CB in the NFL no doubt. You like to stretch what people actually say. Then stick your fingers in your ears and shout anytime someone tries to engage you in an intelligent manner.

 

[The30YardSlant]

No, I'm pointing out your wild generalization, just like I said.

Either you're saying that he isnt regarded by many as the best cover corner, or you arent and your "wild generalization" statement is baseless.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

People say last year he was the best coverage corner in football, that is true, he was.

you took that as people saying he was the best CB in the NFL no doubt. You like to stretch what people actually say. Then stick your fingers in your ears and shout anytime someone tries to engage you in an intelligent manner.

And turns around and does not want to be lumped in with the likes of nors.:laugh1:

 

[The30YardSlant]

People say last year he was the best coverage corner in football, that is true, he was.

Well, I was going to use the search engine to bring up several pasts threads to prove the point, but BigD here just drove it home for me. Much thanks.

BTW, a free hint: No, he wasnt

 

[BigDFan5]

Well, I was going to use the search engine to bring up several pasts threads to prove the point, but BigD here just drove it home for me. Much thanks.

BTW, a free hint: No, he wasnt

OK then name 1 CB who while in coverage gave up a little over 300 yards and 0 TDs last year? Name 1 player who did better than that

 

[AdamJT13]

He said Mario Edwards had one of the better years back in 2003.

My problem with Dr. Z's rankings is that he doesn't evaluate every game. He might see only five or six games and base his rankings on those games. That's why he rated Mario Edwards highly -- he just happened to miss Edwards' bad games that year. And that problem doesn't apply to him saying Newman was his highest-ranking cover corner last season, because Newman DIDN'T HAVE ANY bad games.

K.C. Joyner at least watches every game. I don't trust his judgement and accuracy as much as I would Dr. Z's, but at least it's a complete sample. It's the same with STATS Inc. They might not get all of the details right, but at least they're doing it for all 16 games.

 

[BigDFan5]

And turns around and does not want to be lumped in with the likes of nors.:laugh1:

At least Nors was fun to laugh at HH is just sad.

 

[The30YardSlant]

People say last year he was the best coverage corner in football, that is true, he was.

you took that as people saying he was the best CB in the NFL no doubt. You like to stretch what people actually say. Then stick your fingers in your ears and shout anytime someone tries to engage you in an intelligent manner.

As for the rest of this post, find where I ever said, even once, Newman was thought of as the best corner in football on these boards? I said best "COVER CORNER", which you wourself just claimed.

So, we can chalk this post up as a straight up lie

 

[Chocolate Lab]

HH, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but do you ever provide any evidence to back up your opinions? I'd like to hear who you considered better last year and, more importantly, why.

 

[BigDFan5]

As for the rest of this post, find where I ever said, even once, Newman was thought of as the best corner in football on these boards? I said best "COVER CORNER", which you wourself just claimed.

So, we can chalk this post up as a straight up lie

Cover as in not giving up alot of yards and TD's? yeah name one who was better last year

 

[BigDFan5]

HH, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but do you ever provide any evidence to back up your opinions? I'd like to hear who you considered better last year and, more importantly, why.

HH back something up don't be ridiculous.

 

[The30YardSlant]

OK then name 1 CB who while in coverage gave up a little over 300 yards and 0 TDs last year? Name 1 player who did better than that

I can't, and no one here can. Save Adam, whom I am not entirely convinced is not just making up these stats, as he dissapeared when i asked him to post a link. I would question the validity of a stat that claims he didnt give up 1 TD all year.

But, it probably is correct, and am not basing him not being the best on that validity or lack thereof.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Either you're saying that he isnt regarded by many as the best cover corner, or you arent and your "wild generalization" statement is baseless.

Do you know what a "strawman" is HH? I don't think you do.

I suggest you look it up.

It is not up to me to show that he is regarded by many as the best cover corner. In fact, that was YOUR claim. The burden of proof is on you.

"he was annointed the best coverage corner in football right there on the spot and no one has looked back sense."

The above statement reaks of false generalization.

Q.E.D.

 

[BigDFan5]

I can't, and no one here can. Save Adam, whom I am not entirely convinced is not just making up these stats, as he dissapeared when i asked him to post a link. I would question the validity of a stat that claims he didnt give up 1 TD all year.

But, it probably is correct, and am not basing him not being the best on that validity or lack thereof.

You can't well thats the most honest answer I have ever seen from you. As for the 0 TD's given up it was in an article the other day from Brandt (I believe) also

So if he can give up the fewest TD's and yards and not be the best what is the criteria you use for "cover" corner

 

[The30YardSlant]

HH, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but do you ever provide any evidence to back up your opinions? I'd like to hear who you considered better last year and, more importantly, why.

Where is your evidence? Like I said, I have never seen these links that say newman gave up this or that.

As for who is better in my eyes, I'd still take Champ Bailey over Newman. Granted, he does give up big plays more often than Newman did last year, however he more than makes up for it with big plays. He is a gambler, moreso than Newman. When you have his skills, that is usually a good thing.

Ronde Barber is still the best coverage corner in football IMO, both as a zone and man defender. He is getting up there in age, though.

 

[The30YardSlant]

And turns around and does not want to be lumped in with the likes of nors.:laugh1:

I dont what you are giggling about, you just agreed with an outright lie

 

[The30YardSlant]

Cover as in not giving up alot of yards and TD's? yeah name one who was better last year

So you freely admit your post WAS a lie? Just as long as we have that cleared up.

 

[The30YardSlant]

You can't well thats the most honest answer I have ever seen from you. As for the 0 TD's given up it was in an article the other day from Brandt (I believe) also

So if he can give up the fewest TD's and yards and not be the best what is the criteria you use for "cover" corner

Gil Brandt is not the individual whom I would be basing my player anylisis on.