Done with T-New

[KJJ]

Meh. There's so much here to disagree with, but debunking it all would be so tedious.

You can't debunk any of it so you're choosing the easy way out. LOL

Re: the poll that compares and incident that meant nothing to a huge play on the field, of course the majority understood that the huge play Newman gave up was more significant.

I only mentioned the poll because it's just another one of the many threads we've been seeing the last few weeks with fans trashing Newman's play.

I haven't heard anybody worth listening to in the 'expert' category criticize Newman's play in general this year. Sturm was vaguely critical of him in his post today about the defense in general, but that's about it. He's been playing pretty well most of the year.

Dissing an expert who's been critical of Newman claiming they aren't worth listening to is just another excuse Newman apologists use to defend his play. If you think Newman has been playing pretty well most of the year then you must be pleased with the play of the majority of the players on the team.

Any fan who has high standards for the Cowboys and wants to see them in contention every season isn't going to say Newman has been playing pretty well most of the season. The more I hear your views the more you sound like Wade Phillips.

You can cherry pick individual plays that he gave up all you want, but don't be naive enough to pretend that any analysis of his play this year is constrained to just the plays he gives up. Every CB gives up plays. It's the nature of the position. You know this, though you may care to pretend some of them don't.

Newman has been giving up more plays this season then any season previously. I don't remember seeing many threads trashing his play prior to this season.

I know some fans started getting down on him after he got beat by Santonio Holmes a couple of years ago in a huge game against Pittsburgh. It seems like all the Cowboy boards have threads trashing Newman's play.

I don't start these threads I'm just in the majority who thinks his play hasn't been acceptable. Naturally every corner is going to give up some plays but Newman has been getting beat pretty routinely this season. It's become a common occurrence.

Even when he plays not to get beat receivers are still able to run by him. He was giving Jackson some cushion and still ended up getting beat by almost 5 yards.

It's not just one play that's causing these Newman threads to pop up it's the amount of plays he's been giving up this season that's turning fans against him.

Re: replacing players, you don't get to have that argument both ways. There's a reason there isn't anyone better to replace him with. And while I agree that they'll be looking this draft or next for someone to groom to replace him, it'll be because of his age, not because of the way he's played this year.

The reason there isn't anyone better to replace him with is because the Cowboys haven't tried to replace him. They signed him to a six year $50 million contract in May of 08.

If he was playing at a high level there would be no need to look for someone to groom to replace him at this juncture because the Cowboys have several big needs offensively and defensively. They paid Newman because they felt he could man his spot until he was at least 34-35.

The Cowboys have a dilemma because no one in the secondary is getting it done including Jenkins who last season appeared to be on his way to being one of the best young corners in the league.

With Jenkins regressing and Newman struggling to stay with receivers Jerry is going to have alot of work this offseason trying to make the Cowboys competitive for next season.

 

[KJJ]

You won't see me making excuses for Newman. He gets beat with some regularity.

Then what are you arguing about? It's that exact reason fans are starting threads like this. LOL

 

[Idgit]

You can't debunk any of it so you're choosing the easy way out. LOL

I only mentioned the poll because it's just another one of the many threads we've been seeing the last few weeks with fans trashing Newman's play.

Your mention of the poll was off topic and not relevant.

Dissing an expert who's been critical of Newman claiming they aren't worth listening to is just another excuse Newman apologists use to defend his play. If you think Newman has been playing pretty well most of the year then you must be pleased with the play of the majority of the players on the team.

Dissing? Where? How? And how is thinking Newman has been playing well akin to being pleased with the play of the majority of players on the team? Please explain this wild leap of fantasy.

Any fan who has high standards for the Cowboys and wants to see them in contention every season isn't going to say Newman has been playing pretty well most of the season....

This is just untrue, and made up. And indefensible.

Newman has been giving up more plays this season then any season previously. I don't remember seeing many threads trashing his play prior to this season.

I know some fans started getting down on him after he got beat by Santonio Holmes a couple of years ago in a huge game against Pittsburgh. It seems like all the Cowboy boards have threads trashing Newman's play.

I don't start these threads I'm just in the majority who thinks his play hasn't been acceptable. Naturally every corner is going to give up some plays but Newman has been getting beat pretty routinely this season. It's become a common occurrence.

Using fan opinions from a message board probably isn't the best support for your argument that he's giving up more plays than any season previously. And you're not in the majority if you think his play hasn't been acceptable. You're in a loud and largely-ignorant minority that doesn't know what a majority is.

Even when he plays not to get beat receivers are still able to run by him. He was giving Jackson some cushion and still ended up getting beat by almost 5 yards.

Jackson didn't run by him. Look again at the design of the play. Newman actually ran stride for stride for him after he bit on the in. That's v. Desean Jackson, who's one of the fastest WRs in the league.

It's not just one play that's causing these Newman threads to pop up it's the amount of plays he's been giving up this season that's turning fans against him.

As measured by your informal assessment of the number of threads on the topic at cz.com. Got it.

The reason there isn't anyone better to replace him with is because the Cowboys haven't tried to replace him. They signed him to a six year $50 million contract in May of 08.

If he was playing at a high level there would be no need to look for someone to groom to replace him at this juncture because the Cowboys have several big needs offensively and defensively. They paid Newman because they felt he could man his spot until he was at least 34-35.

The fact that they haven't tried to replace him tells you how he's played. The fact that we agree they won't replace him this off season tells you more. They never thought he'd man a starting CB spot at 35. Look at what he gets paid relative to other starting CBs in the league over the term of his contract. He's actually a bargain.

The Cowboys have a dilemma because no one in the secondary is getting it done including Jenkins who last season appeared to be on his way to being one of the best young corners in the league.

With Jenkins regressing and Newman struggling to stay with receivers Jerry is going to have alot of work this offseason trying to make the Cowboys competitive for next season.

Jenkins has been part of the problem. And safety play. We'll see how much work Jerry does with his CBs this offseason. If you're right, we should see some substantial changes. My money's on Terrance Newman starting and doing a good job for us again next year.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Idgit- There are a lot of obvious things thay you don't get and for obvious reasons. And your posts are ridiculous, irrational and insane.

But, hey, continue on... entertain me with your nonsense.

 

[trueblue1687]

That is scheme/playcalling, not on Newman.

We need so much work on defense it's not even funny.

Our secondary needs serious work, but we just let McCoy go for over 150 on like 17 carries. We need Dom Capers in here next year.

As much as I DO like Newman, it is NOT all scheme. He has had his butt handed to him the last few games. He has never been great in zone, but his play as of late has been atrocious. I agree with you on the DC

 

[KJJ]

Your mention of the poll was off topic and not relevant.

It wasn't off topic or irrelevant because it was in response to all the trashing threads I mentioned that had been posted on Newman and that was another one.

Dissing? Where? How? And how is thinking Newman has been playing well akin to being pleased with the play of the majority of players on the team? Please explain this wild leap of fantasy.

You mentioned that you haven't heard anyone worth listening to in the "expert" category criticize Newman's play. That makes it sound like you've heard some criticism from experts but didn't value their opinion because it doesn't support yours.

If you think Newman has played well which you claim he has then you must think a majority of the other players have played pretty well too. There hasn't been many players on the team who's poor play has been singled out as many times as Newman's the past few weeks but according to you he's played well.

After you said he's played well you posted to "RoyTheHammer" that Newman gets beat with some regularity. How can Newman be playing well if he gets beat with some regularity? Have fun explaining that. LOL

This is just untrue, and made up. And indefensible.

Dude, I'm not making anything up I'm giving you my opinion. If you think Newman has played well this season even though he's been getting beat with some regularity then your standards for the players on the team can't possibly be very high. I can assure you that very few teams have won championships with corners who get beat with some regularity especially in this day and age where the NFL has become a passing league. If you can't defend the pass then you better hope your offense can put up 30-plus points a game or you're not going to win many games just look at the Cowboys. :toast:

Using fan opinions from a message board probably isn't the best support for your argument that he's giving up more plays than any season previously. And you're not in the majority if you think his play hasn't been acceptable. You're in a loud and largely-ignorant minority that doesn't know what a majority is.

Go find a season during Newman's 8 year NFL career where he's been beaten more times than this season. I don't find it acceptable for defenders to be beaten with some regularity that's how your pass defense ends up where the Cowboys are ranking near the bottom of the league. A big part of the reason the Cowboys are 4-9 is because they can't defend the pass.

When you have a majority of the fans and few experts especially those who follow the team being critical of Newman's play then that's pretty good support that he hasn't played well. Don't discount the fans because their vote helps send alot of players to the Pro Bowl.

Go find something that supports your argument that he has played well this season. You just said he's been beaten with some regularity but continue to argue that he's played well. You can try spinning it anyway you want but you're the one who's in the minority on this topic.

Jackson didn't run by him. Look again at the design of the play. Newman actually ran stride for stride for him after he bit on the in. That's v. Desean Jackson, who's one of the fastest WRs in the league.

Saying Jackson didn't run by him makes you look foolish. LOL I watched the play over and over and it looked like it was going to be a post route and when Jackson curled in and paused Newman was looking right at him giving him almost 5 yards of cushion then Jackson began to sprint towards him which turned Newman around and Jackson flew past him. Even Collingsworth said Jackson was too fast for him. Al Michaels said the Eagles planned on attacking Newman which is further proof that he's been getting beat all season and hasn't played well.

The fact that they haven't tried to replace him tells you how he's played.

The fact is there's no one currently on the roster who can replace him get real! LOL They're still playing Ball what does that tell you? :laugh2:

The fact that we agree they won't replace him this off season tells you more. They never thought he'd man a starting CB spot at 35. Look at what he gets paid relative to other starting CBs in the league over the term of his contract. He's actually a bargain.

I never said he wouldn't be replaced this offseason I said he probably won't be "unless" they can find an upgrade. If he continues giving up plays the final 3 games they'll have no choice but to look around this offseason. Like I said the Cowboys have several players they need to replace offensively and defensively and I would start at safety on the defensive side. Fixing that would help the cornerback situation. You don't know what the Cowboys thought when they signed Newman but they certainly planned on him manning that spot until he was at least 34. Corners have played into their mid to late 30's and some have played very well.

Jenkins has been part of the problem. And safety play. We'll see how much work Jerry does with his CBs this offseason. If you're right, we should see some substantial changes. My money's on Terrance Newman starting and doing a good job for us again next year.

Jenkins has been a bigger problem not only has he been beat a number of times but he's committed a number of PI calls and quit on a tackle. He's clearly regressed from last season but he has youth and upside in his favor. He's still a developing player with potential but Newman's best days are behind him and he's on the way down. As for whether I'm going to be right or not I never said Newman is gone next year. The Cowboys may have no choice but to keep him next season regardless of how he's playing. They have major needs on the OL. The DL needs help and the Cowboys have to find a solid safety which is a position that's been hurting the team for years.

 

[CATCH17]

Whether you hate Newman, Jenkins, or both.... Dallas needs another quality corner.

 

[CCBoy]

It is amusing that many would rush to first execute, and then bury Dallas veterans and then in the same stroke of events rush to quickly sign any and all veterans departing another team that doesn't have the skill set they unleashed upon in the first place. All players during a season, have a few bad games. It is part of the toil in being an athlete. Some players even have poor seasons yet accomplish solid to great careers. There is some judiciousness to management of personnel, and it all isn't see the door. Sometimes team growth takes group shared frustrations as well...

 

[CCBoy]

Whether you hate Newman, Jenkins, or both.... Dallas needs another quality corner.

If Dallas has a top six to eight pick, should it pick there, or trade down once or twice to get five to six top three round picks?

 

[Idgit]

It wasn't off topic or irrelevant because it was in response to all the trashing threads I mentioned that had been posted on Newman and that was another one.

You mentioned that you haven't heard anyone worth listening to in the "expert" category criticize Newman's play. That makes it sound like you've heard some criticism from experts but didn't value their opinion because it doesn't support yours.

If you think Newman has played well which you claim he has then you must think a majority of the other players have played pretty well too. There hasn't been many players on the team who's poor play has been singled out as many times as Newman's the past few weeks but according to you he's played well.

After you said he's played well you posted to "RoyTheHammer" that Newman gets beat with some regularity. How can Newman be playing well if he gets beat with some regularity? Have fun explaining that. LOL

Dude, I'm not making anything up I'm giving you my opinion. If you think Newman has played well this season even though he's been getting beat with some regularity then your standards for the players on the team can't possibly be very high. I can assure you that very few teams have won championships with corners who get beat with some regularity especially in this day and age where the NFL has become a passing league. If you can't defend the pass then you better hope your offense can put up 30-plus points a game or you're not going to win many games just look at the Cowboys. :toast:

Go find a season during Newman's 8 year NFL career where he's been beaten more times than this season. I don't find it acceptable for defenders to be beaten with some regularity that's how your pass defense ends up where the Cowboys are ranking near the bottom of the league. A big part of the reason the Cowboys are 4-9 is because they can't defend the pass.

When you have a majority of the fans and few experts especially those who follow the team being critical of Newman's play then that's pretty good support that he hasn't played well. Don't discount the fans because their vote helps send alot of players to the Pro Bowl.

Go find something that supports your argument that he has played well this season. You just said he's been beaten with some regularity but continue to argue that he's played well. You can try spinning it anyway you want but you're the one who's in the minority on this topic.

Saying Jackson didn't run by him makes you look foolish. LOL I watched the play over and over and it looked like it was going to be a post route and when Jackson curled in and paused Newman was looking right at him giving him almost 5 yards of cushion then Jackson began to sprint towards him which turned Newman around and Jackson flew past him. Even Collingsworth said Jackson was too fast for him. Al Michaels said the Eagles planned on attacking Newman which is further proof that he's been getting beat all season and hasn't played well.

The fact is there's no one currently on the roster who can replace him get real! LOL They're still playing Ball what does that tell you? :laugh2:

I never said he wouldn't be replaced this offseason I said he probably won't be "unless" they can find an upgrade. If he continues giving up plays the final 3 games they'll have no choice but to look around this offseason. Like I said the Cowboys have several players they need to replace offensively and defensively and I would start at safety on the defensive side. Fixing that would help the cornerback situation. You don't know what the Cowboys thought when they signed Newman but they certainly planned on him manning that spot until he was at least 34. Corners have played into their mid to late 30's and some have played very well.

Jenkins has been a bigger problem not only has he been beat a number of times but he's committed a number of PI calls and quit on a tackle. He's clearly regressed from last season but he has youth and upside in his favor. He's still a developing player with potential but Newman's best days are behind him and he's on the way down. As for whether I'm going to be right or not I never said Newman is gone next year. The Cowboys may have no choice but to keep him next season regardless of how he's playing. They have major needs on the OL. The DL needs help and the Cowboys have to find a solid safety which is a position that's been hurting the team for years.

*Sigh*. This is tedious and not going anywhere. The gist of my reply to most of the paragraphs here is the obvious comment that even the good CBs in the league get beat with some regularity. Newman's no different. If you don't accept that from a Dallas Cowboy CB, then it explains why you're unhappy with Newman: because you have unrealistic expectations.

It would actually be interesting to see the results of a CZ poll: "Is Terrence Newman still a quality starting CB in the NFL". I really think you're in a noisy minority if you'd answer 'no' to that question, but on cz.com these days, I'm not positive. I think many good posters stay away from some of these sillier threads because they get so tiresome, but it's hard to say that for sure.

 

[JPM]

It is amusing that many would rush to first execute, and then bury Dallas veterans and then in the same stroke of events rush to quickly sign any and all veterans departing another team that doesn't have the skill set they unleashed upon in the first place. All players during a season, have a few bad games. It is part of the toil in being an athlete. Some players even have poor seasons yet accomplish solid to great careers. There is some judiciousness to management of personnel, and it all isn't see the door. Sometimes team growth takes group shared frustrations as well...

I have said it before CC, other people's toys are: newer, shiner, and better than ours.

Great part about it is once theyy are gone the rueing starts, just look at Jason Williams 2 weeks ago.

 

[CCBoy]

I have said it before CC, other people's toys are: newer, shiner, and better than ours.

Great part about it is once theyy are gone the rueing starts, just look at Jason Williams 2 weeks ago.

Agreed, and always now, everything is into micromanagement by the media as to credability for anything not named Lombardi.

 

[KJJ]

*Sigh*. This is tedious and not going anywhere. The gist of my reply to most of the paragraphs here is the obvious comment that even the good CBs in the league get beat with some regularity. Newman's no different. If you don't accept that from a Dallas Cowboy CB, then it explains why you're unhappy with Newman: because you have unrealistic expectations.

It would actually be interesting to see the results of a CZ poll: "Is Terrence Newman still a quality starting CB in the NFL". I really think you're in a noisy minority if you'd answer 'no' to that question, but on cz.com these days, I'm not positive. I think many good posters stay away from some of these sillier threads because they get so tiresome, but it's hard to say that for sure.

It's tedious because our opinions completely differ you see it one way and I see the other. This entire discussion is based on opinion and in my opinion good CB's don't get beaten with the regularity Newman has been beaten this season. It's his struggles this season that caused Philly to go after him.

Newman's made some plays this season but he's suffering from the same disease everyone in our secondary is suffering from and that's inconsistency. Everytime someone makes a play they give up a big play a few plays later it's been that way all season.

I don't think Newman is a terrible player but his game isn't nearly as solid as it once was. There was a time when receivers couldn't get behind him because he played not to get beat.

Now when he plays off receivers they're still able to turn him around and beat him. He's had alot of trouble staying with receivers this season and him getting beat has become a common occurrence this season. If he gets slightly fooled he doesn't have the recovery speed to make up for his mistake.

Jenkins has been worse but he's young and the Cowboys will hope he can rebound next season. The Cowboys are going to have to start grooming someone to take over for Newman in the next year or two but with all the upgrades the team needs on the OL and defensive side of the ball it's almost a certainty he'll be back next season.

Not having to help out a safety would be a huge help to our corners. They were clearly better last season with Hamlin back there then they have been with Ball. If there's an Eric Berry caliber safety sitting there for the Cowboys with their first pick in April that has to be their pick.

They desperately need a big time safety that one move would make a big difference in our secondary.