Draft a nosetackle ?

[jnday]

I have seen several post over the past few months suggesting that Dallas should draft a huge nosetackle to clog up the middle and stuff the run. This move is usually with the assumption that J Rat would move to DE. I think this would benefit J Rat`s size and skill set and improve the overall d-line. My question is this , Is this just an ideal that fans have came up with ? Has any Dallas coach mentioned this as a possible move ? Was playing Jay at nosetackle a Wade Phillips thing ? I have read several articles that stated Jay wanted to stay at nosetackle and had no desire to move. Any chance that a new DC would be willing to move him ? I have not took the time to scout some of the prospects at nosetackle. If moving Jay is possible , I want to study up on the prospects and have some knowledge about them. This topic has been on-going for a while and I was just wondering if any changes could take place. Any ideals ?

 

[kevinhickey]

I would love for Dallas to draft or sign a true NT and move Ratliff to the outside. Ratliff would still require two blockers. Our linebackers would have more freedom to blitz. This may also prolong Ratliff's career. You don't hear anything in news of this idea.

 

[TheCount]

No coaches have mentioned moving anybody anywhere, so yes, it's all fan speculation.

It would be in Jay's best interest to say he wants to stay at nose. To begin with, 3-4 NT's make more than 3-4 DE's. Secondly, he currently plays NT and the Cowboys want him there, so it's also in his best interest to enjoy playing the position he plays.

However, as we have seen, there is some limitation to having a smaller NT, even one of Ratliff's caliber.

I think there is a reason that just about every other 3-4 has a bigger, lane clogging NT (even those that use that NT to penetrate).

So the question I ask is this, are the Cowboys so much smarter than every other team, including the ones with top ranked defenses that are known for being punishing in run D or is this one of those cases where the crowd may have it right and we could do better?

 

[jnday]

No coaches have mentioned moving anybody anywhere, so yes, it's all fan speculation. It would be in Jay's best interest to say he wants to stay at nose. To begin with, 3-4 NT's make more than 3-4 DE's. Secondly, he currently plays NT and the Cowboys want him there, so it's also in his best interest to enjoy playing the position he plays. However, as we have seen, there is some limitation to having a smaller NT, even one of Ratliff's caliber. I think there is a reason that just about every other 3-4 has a bigger, lane clogging NT (even those that use that NT to penetrate). So the question I ask is this, are the Cowboys so much smarter than every other team, including the ones with top ranked defenses that are known for being punishing in run D or is this one of those cases where the crowd may have it right and we could do better?

It just seemed like Rat was less effective against the double teams and the position took a toll on him this year. Moving him to DE is an ideal that has become very popular with the fans on the various forums. I hope a new DC will take a long , hard look at moving him .

 

[Stautner]

I have seen several post over the past few months suggesting that Dallas should draft a huge nosetackle to clog up the middle and stuff the run. This move is usually with the assumption that J Rat would move to DE. I think this would benefit J Rat`s size and skill set and improve the overall d-line. My question is this , Is this just an ideal that fans have came up with ? Has any Dallas coach mentioned this as a possible move ? Was playing Jay at nosetackle a Wade Phillips thing ? I have read several articles that stated Jay wanted to stay at nosetackle and had no desire to move. Any chance that a new DC would be willing to move him ? I have not took the time to scout some of the prospects at nosetackle. If moving Jay is possible , I want to study up on the prospects and have some knowledge about them. This topic has been on-going for a while and I was just wondering if any changes could take place. Any ideals ?

I agree with you. I've never seen any hint from the Cowboys that they are thinking about it though. In fct, until Brent they really hadn't even made much of an effort to find a big man to back up Ratliff, much less take the position and move Ratliff to DE.

I think at first Ratliff moved to NT out of necessity. When we had Ferguson Ratliff was a swing guy, backing up at both NT and DE. We took a shot on Tank Johnson, but when he didn't work out, and Ferguson was deemed to no longer be a top NT, the position was left to Ratliff. When he had an impact at NT, he took a strong hold on the position.

And honestly, he does have an impact at NT. He pressures QB's much more than most NT's and can make a play behind the line of scrimmage. I just think there is a tradeoff, and we can have problems sometimes by not having that strong, big bodied anchor in the middle.

 

[UnoDallas]

Chris Neild, DT, West Virginia
Height: 6-2. Weight: 300
Projected 40 Time: 5.02.
Projected Round (2011):7 - FA

Started all 13 games … saw action on more than 645 plays, including a season high 81 against UConn … used on 50 or more plays in nine games

http://i80.***BLOCKED***/albums/j190/sjurg71/Neild8508.jpg

http://i80.***BLOCKED***/albums/j190/sjurg71/fbcamp6081509.jpg


just looks like a NT

 

[batman36]

The opposing QB was able to step up into the pocket too often this past season. While Ratliff does give the team the quick presence they want at the position, he doesn't anchor as well as a bigger player does. Watch C. Hampton this weekend as Pittsburg plays. He may not get into the backfield, but he holds the point of attack, thus allowing for the outside backers to make plays coming off the corners.

 

[TheFinisher]

We had Ratliff playing NT only because of Wade Phillips' defense. Wade really runs a 43 front disguised as a 34, it's a 1 gap system. Depending on who the new DC is will ultimately decide where Rat plays next season. There's no way he can play NT in a true 2-Gap 34 system. Honestly, our entire front 7 outside of D Ware isn't really designed for a true 3-4 so it will be interesting.

 

[TheFinisher]

The opposing QB was able to step up into the pocket too often this past season. While Ratliff does give the team the quick presence they want at the position, he doesn't anchor as well as a bigger player does. Watch C. Hampton this weekend as Pittsburg plays. He may not get into the backfield, but he holds the point of attack, thus allowing for the outside backers to make plays coming off the corners.

Pittsburgh and Dallas run entirely different systems so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

[batman36]

Pittsburgh and Dallas run entirely different systems so it's not really a fair comparison.

Duly noted. Then I hope the new DC and Garrett will utilize a similiar system. Going back to 1994 with that zone blitz scheme that Capers used with Pittsburg, and they still use in some form, it would be neat to see it in Dallas. And yes, I realize that all of the components are not in place, but over time , they could be. As an aside, I enjoy your posts.

 

[NeonDeion21]

I think where are scheme differs from Pittsburgh is that their ends aren't there just to take up space. They make plays in the backfield and get a strong push upfield. I think Rat could excel at DE, not in the sense he would take two blocks, but that he could make place at that position.

 

[TheFinisher]

Duly noted. Then I hope the new DC and Garrett will utilize a similiar system. Going back to 1994 with that zone blitz scheme that Capers used with Pittsburg, and they still use in some form, it would be neat to see it in Dallas. And yes, I realize that all of the components are not in place, but over time , they could be. As an aside, I enjoy your posts.

Absolutely, I hate the 1 Gap system and would more than welcome a switch to the traditional 2 Gap. Only problem is, like you mentioned, we don't have the pieces. I think we could get by at the LB spots for a transition year or 2(although we'd have to bring in some bigger ILB types eventually) but the DLine needs to be totally rehauled. We don't have 1 guy on the roster who fits in a traditional 34 along the down 3. Just take a look at Pittsburgh, Baltimore and New England and you will see the differences in the types of lineman. Their NT has to be an immovable space eater, and both Ends must first be extremely stout against the run and second be able to collapse the pocket. Our guys can't do any of that, we actually have DEs like Bowen and Hatcher who are just oversized pass rushers. I don't think Ratliff is stout enough for double teams even if we kicked him to end (always thought he was only a 3-tech). Brice is a question mark, although he might be a guy who could rotate in. Igor and Spears are JAGs.

Based on what we have, if we make the move to the traditional 2-Gap then DLine becomes the largest need on this team bar-none. We don't have anyone that would be successful in it.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Chris Neild, DT, West Virginia
Height: 6-2. Weight: 300
Projected 40 Time: 5.02.
Projected Round (2011):7 - FA

Pass.. unless he eats a few more biscuts. 300 lbs won't hold up at NT in the NFL. That's what we have right now in Ratliff.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Rat wears down vs. the run as the season progresses....it happens every year....the guy has a huge heart but he is simply too small to consistently play the position in the NFL. I think he would excel as a DE in the 3-4 and it would prolong his career.

 

[DBOY3141]

The opposing QB was able to step up into the pocket too often this past season. While Ratliff does give the team the quick presence they want at the position, he doesn't anchor as well as a bigger player does. Watch C. Hampton this weekend as Pittsburg plays. He may not get into the backfield, but he holds the point of attack, thus allowing for the outside backers to make plays coming off the corners.

Take away Troy Polumau and Pittsburgh defense takes a huge step backwards. Take away Hampton and replace with Ratliff and they still are one of the top two in the NFL.

Troy makes that defense great, not the NT.

 

[Stautner]

Take away Troy Polumau and Pittsburgh defense takes a huge step backwards. Take away Hampton and replace with Ratliff and they still are one of the top two in the NFL.

Troy makes that defense great, not the NT.

I disagree. I certainly believe Troy is a major factor in making the Steelers defense great, but Ratliff and Hampton are not interchangeble. They play completely different styles, and there is no certainty that Ratliff's style would fit what the Steelers are doing as well.

I would frankly love to have Hampton. I would take him at NT and move Ratliff to DE in a heartbeat. Hampton clogs the running lanes in the middle, and collapses the pocket in the middle which takes away the area for a QB to step into to avoid the outside pass rushers.

 

[Doomsday]

Take away Troy Polumau and Pittsburgh defense takes a huge step backwards. Take away Hampton and replace with Ratliff and they still are one of the top two in the NFL.

Troy makes that defense great, not the NT.

The front 7 on the Steelers defense is full of studs, Troy makes a lot of big plays but he gets too much of the credit for that unit as a whole. Hampton and Keisel are beasts and they have the best group of LBs in the league by far.

How much different would our defense look with Hampton playing NT, Rat playing DE opposite Spears and Woodley and Timmons in for Brooking and Spencer?

 

[Stautner]

The front 7 on the Steelers defense is full of studs, Troy makes a lot of big plays but he gets too much of the credit for that unit as a whole. Hampton and Keisel are beasts and they have the best group of LBs in the league by far.

How much different would our defense look with Hampton playing NT, Rat playing DE opposite Spears and Woodley and Timmons in for Brooking and Spencer?

I think something people should remember is that a lot of the reason Troy is so effective is that the front 7 does such a good job that it frees him up to freelance. I saw an interview with Lebeau awhile back and whenhe was asked about how he used Polomolu he said he can't tell you because he doesn't know where Polumolu is going to be from play to play and situation to situation. Obviously part of that is he has great instincts, but ultimately the Steelers would get burned if the QB had time to set up, survey the field, and find the holes created by Polomolu not sticking to the script. The front 7 and the pressure and havoc they create is the core of the Steeler's defense, and Troy is the ideal safety to take advantage of it.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

The front 7 on the Steelers defense is full of studs, Troy makes a lot of big plays but he gets too much of the credit for that unit as a whole. Hampton and Keisel are beasts and they have the best group of LBs in the league by far.

How much different would our defense look with Hampton playing NT, Rat playing DE opposite Spears and Woodley and Timmons in for Brooking and Spencer?

OMG.

:fogeys:

 

[Verdict]

Jay Ratliff is a stud player, and I'm glad that he is a Cowboy, but he is NOT a prototypical nose tackle in a 3-4. He is undersized. The Cowboys utilized Ratliff's speed and quickness to penetrate the line and register sacks (that normally a 3-4 NT doesn't really get).

A prototypical NT in the 3-4 is a HUGE mammoth hulk of a beast (in the 350# range) that clogs the middle, demands a double team, AND collapses the pocket. I'm not saying Ratliff sucks as a NT, but he is just not ideal. The way in which we are using Ratliff currently, is much the same as if we had Ware and Spencer rush the passer on every down. Run support suffers greatly.

I'm sure Ratliff would love to rush the passer every down, and I'm sure the corners and safeties would love to do the same thing, but realistically, that would get you beat.

There is a reason that Parcells came in looking to find someone who could collapse the pocket at NT and why he pursued Ferguson (although I think he was probably undersized as well). It is the first step in creating a dominant 3-4 defense. Without that element, it is like having a hall of fame running back behind a weak offensive line. It just doesn't work like it should.

Pro Bowl or not, Ratliff is undersized for the 3-4 NT position. Some of the posters on this board have been saying this for a while. While that doesn't prove replacing Ratliff with a huge run stuffing NT is the right thing to do, the media is now jumping on that same bandwagon, which probably means that the media either:

a. read it here
b. have figured out it might be a good idea based on what they have seen with their own eyes, or
c. they are picking up sounds of that from Valley Ranch.