Draft class scattershot

[darthseinfeld]

- Tyler Smith is a good hedge against Guyton busting. We have two players that have Pro Bowl upside at LT. Not saying either would hit that, but its good peice of mind. Being such a late first, it wouldn't end up a bad investment if Guyton eventually kicked out to RT. 29 isn't too high for a RT

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

- An interesting now on Cooper Beebe. He has 30% body fat. He will trim that down and should be much more athletic.

- As a chase and tackle LB, Liufau seems more like a hitter than anything else. 3.8 tackles per game the last two years is not good

- The Carson pick is the one that makes you really get excited about a draft class. I feel confident about him getting some snaps as a #4 CB this year. Dont feel like he would be burnt toast

- Flournoy being 25 means 2024 might be his one chance to show them something. However I think he is much more talented than Fehoko was when we took him. I think Brooks is a better prospect though

- Thomas was a great dart late. There is potential for him to develop into a starting caliber player. Even hitting halfway to that that, with Bass and Richards last year, they may end up with very good depth on the interior while they are on rookie deals

- I dont expect Rodgers to make the final roster. Short armed NT's dont usually amount to much

 

[reddyuta]

- Tyler Smith is a good hedge against Guyton busting. We have two players that have Pro Bowl upside at LT. Not saying either would hit that, but its good peice of mind. Being such a late first, it wouldn't end up a bad investment if Guyton eventually kicked out to RT. 29 isn't too high for a RT

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

- An interesting now on Cooper Beebe. He has 30% body fat. He will trim that down and should be much more athletic.

- As a chase and tackle LB, Liufau seems more like a hitter than anything else. 3.8 tackles per game the last two years is not good

- The Carson pick is the one that makes you really get excited about a draft class. I feel confident about him getting some snaps as a #4 CB this year. Dont feel like he would be burnt toast

- Flournoy being 25 means 2024 might be his one chance to show them something. However I think he is much more talented than Fehoko was when we took him. I think Brooks is a better prospect though

- Thomas was a great dart late. There is potential for him to develop into a starting caliber player. Even hitting halfway to that that, with Bass and Richards last year, they may end up with very good depth on the interior while they are on rookie deals

- I dont expect Rodgers to make the final roster. Short armed NT's dont usually amount to much

33" arms seem fine to me for a NT,if he can show he can take on double teams and doesnt get pushed back then he has a chance because we have no one else on the roster.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

- Tyler Smith is a good hedge against Guyton busting. We have two players that have Pro Bowl upside at LT. Not saying either would hit that, but its good peice of mind. Being such a late first, it wouldn't end up a bad investment if Guyton eventually kicked out to RT. 29 isn't too high for a RT

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

- An interesting now on Cooper Beebe. He has 30% body fat. He will trim that down and should be much more athletic.

- As a chase and tackle LB, Liufau seems more like a hitter than anything else. 3.8 tackles per game the last two years is not good

- The Carson pick is the one that makes you really get excited about a draft class. I feel confident about him getting some snaps as a #4 CB this year. Dont feel like he would be burnt toast

- Flournoy being 25 means 2024 might be his one chance to show them something. However I think he is much more talented than Fehoko was when we took him. I think Brooks is a better prospect though

• - Thomas was a great dart late. There is potential for him to develop into a starting caliber player. Even hitting halfway to that that, with Bass and Richards last year, they may end up with very good depth on the interior while they are on rookie deals

- I dont expect Rodgers to make the final roster. Short armed NT's dont usually amount to much

Nice write up. A few comments:

• I don’t see the D. Hunter comp with Kneeland. I think the prospect that more closely resembled Hunter is Dallas Turner. I think the Karlaftis comp to Kneeland is likely more closely to being accurate.
• I’m not as enamored with Beebe as others are. I think he’s a bit of a plodder and has less than ideal lateral agility/quickness. Maybe losing 10-15 lbs would help that. I would have taken Christian Haynes in front of Beebe.
• Carson was a solid pick. The one area of concern is that he has tiny hands (8.25”). Without exaggerating those are like office worker hands. This could also speak to why he only had 3 INTs in 36 games in college. If you watch his full cut ups you’ll see him drop 1-2 easy ones.
• Not drafting a RB was malpractice.
• One concerning trait I see with Liufau is that he tackles high and is often slung off tackles by the ball carrier. Something to watch.

 

[cnuball21]

- Tyler Smith is a good hedge against Guyton busting. We have two players that have Pro Bowl upside at LT. Not saying either would hit that, but its good peice of mind. Being such a late first, it wouldn't end up a bad investment if Guyton eventually kicked out to RT. 29 isn't too high for a RT

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

- An interesting now on Cooper Beebe. He has 30% body fat. He will trim that down and should be much more athletic.

- As a chase and tackle LB, Liufau seems more like a hitter than anything else. 3.8 tackles per game the last two years is not good

- The Carson pick is the one that makes you really get excited about a draft class. I feel confident about him getting some snaps as a #4 CB this year. Dont feel like he would be burnt toast

- Flournoy being 25 means 2024 might be his one chance to show them something. However I think he is much more talented than Fehoko was when we took him. I think Brooks is a better prospect though

- Thomas was a great dart late. There is potential for him to develop into a starting caliber player. Even hitting halfway to that that, with Bass and Richards last year, they may end up with very good depth on the interior while they are on rookie deals

- I dont expect Rodgers to make the final roster. Short armed NT's dont usually amount to much

I was meh on Guyton at 24 but getting him at 29 in a trade down was solid. He has all pro traits just needs to be put the work in. He’s saying the right things in his post draft pressers so I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t turn into at least a league average / slightly above LT. At the end of the 1st that’s a hit.

Kneeland is the opposite of Hunter IMO. Hunter was a freak with that prototype burst / bend you look for in sack artists in the NFL he was just raw. Kneeland is a power player with good athletics just limited bend. I saw Karlaftis as a comp - and I think that is his target ceiling but GK was MILES ahead of Kneeland as a pass rusher coming out. I like the upside but taking a small school edge with laughable production in the 2nd was too rich for me.

Beebe is a stud. Great value at position of need.

Marist was a massive reach and another LBr similar to what we already have. Questionable eyes and instincts…

Carson another home run pick. Massive value and someone that can contribute year 1 and take over as CB3 in year 2.

Flournoy doesn’t do much for me. Tape is meh for a small schooler.

Thomas is fine - another dart at
the OL on a quality athlete.

Rodgers looks pretty stout…anxious to see how he does in pre camp.

I’ll add the TE from MN is making this team…dude is a mauler in the run game and has a massive catch radius.

 

[Dalmations202]

1) Guyton -- Tyron replacement
2) Kneeland - DLaw replacement
3) Beebe - ZMartin replacement
3b) Marist -- LVE replacement -- I think but this one I really just don't understand.
5) Carson -- Lewis replacement
6) Flournoy -- small school WR with the size they like. Maybe a #4 Wr
7) Thomas -- another IOL that might be practice squad or might in some time become a starter
8) Rodgers -- "see we gave you what you wanted", who probably wouldn't make the team if they actually had legit talent at DL. He still might not make the team due to lack of quickness.

This with TLance -- Dak replacement was a let's get rid of the $$$$ players and see if we can start afresh.

 

[beware_d-ware]

I agree that Kneeland's not a Danielle Hunter type speed rusher guy, but I couldn't think of a good player analogy to fit his style. So I went to Mockdraftable to jog my memory... his second closest comp in Combine history is literally Dorance Armstrong.

Armstrong had 16 sacks over the past 2 seasons, and Fowler had another 10. So there's a lot of meat on the bone there for Kneeland even if he just becomes an Armstrong level player. And I think that's well within his range of outcomes.

Replacing DLaw is probably the FO's long term hope for Kneeland, but man... DLaw is going to be hard to replace. He is just a run defense artist. It's not his physical skillset that makes him so rare, it's his technique and his Einstein-level football IQ of blowing up run schemes. DLaw was not DLaw coming out of Boise State, and no college DE can be. You simply need more time before you start understanding plays at an offensive-coordinator level and can correctly diagnose them from a soda-straw view.

 

[Cowboyny]

- Tyler Smith is a good hedge against Guyton busting. We have two players that have Pro Bowl upside at LT. Not saying either would hit that, but its good peice of mind. Being such a late first, it wouldn't end up a bad investment if Guyton eventually kicked out to RT. 29 isn't too high for a RT

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

- An interesting now on Cooper Beebe. He has 30% body fat. He will trim that down and should be much more athletic.

- As a chase and tackle LB, Liufau seems more like a hitter than anything else. 3.8 tackles per game the last two years is not good

- The Carson pick is the one that makes you really get excited about a draft class. I feel confident about him getting some snaps as a #4 CB this year. Dont feel like he would be burnt toast

- Flournoy being 25 means 2024 might be his one chance to show them something. However I think he is much more talented than Fehoko was when we took him. I think Brooks is a better prospect though

- Thomas was a great dart late. There is potential for him to develop into a starting caliber player. Even hitting halfway to that that, with Bass and Richards last year, they may end up with very good depth on the interior while they are on rookie deals

- I dont expect Rodgers to make the final roster. Short armed NT's dont usually amount to much

We took many upside picks, based on their physical traits and character. There is certainly risk involved but that is their strategy to draft/develop. Some players picks might not make an instant impact, but the hope is they do develop sometime within their rookie contract. As long as these players are willing to do what it take and accept coaching, there is a chance. My biggest question is with Guyton in that regard.

 

[Malhavoc]

I think this team took really good talent in this draft. For those that don’t like the draft, there’s enough questions to argue about your beef. And there’s enough optimism about the draft class for those that like it and want to be excited about it. For me, the most 2 ready guys are Kneeland and Beebe. Physically those guys are ready for their roles. Guyton I wasn’t the biggest fan of. Physically I think there are some questions. There’s enough there that caused him to be a top 30 pick. Despite not taking Lloyd with our 2nd pick in round 3, I think you could get potentially 4 starters from this draft. Not a bad thing.

 

[Mcsports]

Nice write up. A few comments:

• I don’t see the D. Hunter comp with Kneeland. I think the prospect that more closely resembled Hunter is Dallas Turner. I think the Karlaftis comp to Kneeland is likely more closely to being accurate.
• I’m not as enamored with Beebe as others are. I think he’s a bit of a plodder and has less than ideal lateral agility/quickness. Maybe losing 10-15 lbs would help that. I would have taken Christian Haynes in front of Beebe.
• Carson was a solid pick. The one area of concern is that he has tiny hands (8.25”). Without exaggerating those are like office worker hands. This could also speak to why he only had 3 INTs in 36 games in college. If you watch his full cut ups you’ll see him drop 1-2 easy ones.
• Not drafting a RB was malpractice.
• One concerning trait I see with Liufau is that he tackles high and is often slung off tackles by the ball carrier. Something to watch.

Yeah, I noticed on those highlights of Liufau that when he tackled someone, Liufau rarely went to the ground.
He hits high and throws people down, instead of wrapping up and destroying them.
He's usually standing upright when the play is finished. That is concerning.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Yeah, I noticed on those highlights of Liufau that when he tackled someone, Liufau rarely went to the ground.
He hits high and throws people down, instead of wrapping up and destroying them.
He's usually standing upright when the play is finished. That is concerning.

100% noticed that too.

 

[StuckMojo]

I didn’t like the Liufau pick. If I was gonna go with LB there I would have taken a chance on Wilson or Hopper. But probably would have gone RB with Loyd, Wright, Irving or Davis. Or I would have been happy with DT DeWayne Carter, think he is going to be a solid player.

 

[gimmesix]

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

Could have been. Hunter didn't get taken until the third round because of his lack of sack production. Only had 1.5 his last year in college.

I do think Zimmer is eyeing him as a run-downs player on the right side since we often gave up the edge on that side. Eventually, they hope to develop the movement skills he has into an all-around threat.

 

[Malhavoc]

Could have been. Hunter didn't get taken until the third round because of his lack of sack production. Only had 1.5 his last year in college.

I do think Zimmer is eyeing him as a run-downs player on the right side since we often gave up the edge on that side. Eventually, they hope to develop the movement skills he has into an all-around threat.

This team needed to rebuild in the trenches. On defense there is a lot of work to do. Even if Mazi has a rebound year and Kneeland plays well, they need more. It really is near impossible to do it all in the draft.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Nice write up. A few comments:

• I don’t see the D. Hunter comp with Kneeland. I think the prospect that more closely resembled Hunter is Dallas Turner. I think the Karlaftis comp to Kneeland is likely more closely to being accurate.
• I’m not as enamored with Beebe as others are. I think he’s a bit of a plodder and has less than ideal lateral agility/quickness. Maybe losing 10-15 lbs would help that. I would have taken Christian Haynes in front of Beebe.
• Carson was a solid pick. The one area of concern is that he has tiny hands (8.25”). Without exaggerating those are like office worker hands. This could also speak to why he only had 3 INTs in 36 games in college. If you watch his full cut ups you’ll see him drop 1-2 easy ones.
• Not drafting a RB was malpractice.
• One concerning trait I see with Liufau is that he tackles high and is often slung off tackles by the ball carrier. Something to watch.

I was meh on Guyton at 24 but getting him at 29 in a trade down was solid. He has all pro traits just needs to be put the work in. He’s saying the right things in his post draft pressers so I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t turn into at least a league average / slightly above LT. At the end of the 1st that’s a hit.

Kneeland is the opposite of Hunter IMO. Hunter was a freak with that prototype burst / bend you look for in sack artists in the NFL he was just raw. Kneeland is a power player with good athletics just limited bend. I saw Karlaftis as a comp - and I think that is his target ceiling but GK was MILES ahead of Kneeland as a pass rusher coming out. I like the upside but taking a small school edge with laughable production in the 2nd was too rich for me.

Beebe is a stud. Great value at position of need.

Marist was a massive reach and another LBr similar to what we already have. Questionable eyes and instincts…

Carson another home run pick. Massive value and someone that can contribute year 1 and take over as CB3 in year 2.

Flournoy doesn’t do much for me. Tape is meh for a small schooler.

Thomas is fine - another dart at
the OL on a quality athlete.

Rodgers looks pretty stout…anxious to see how he does in pre camp.

I’ll add the TE from MN is making this team…dude is a mauler in the run game and has a massive catch radius.

When I say he might be squinting and seeing Danielle Hunter, I mean he may he a hair on fire energy LDE that he can turn into a pass rusher. What he is missing is Hunter had alot more traits of a double digit sack guy than Kneeland does

 

[cnuball21]

When I say he might be squinting and seeing Danielle Hunter, I mean he may he a hair on fire energy LDE that he can turn into a pass rusher. What he is missing is Hunter had alot more traits of a double digit sack guy than Kneeland does

I see the effort / motor being similar but I mean you could say that about just about every good Edge in football.

Hunter is a freak athlete with crazy burst and bend. His play style is almost the opposite of Kneeland as a pass rusher.

 

[morasp]

My biggest observation in terms of overall roster is that other than Lamb I'm not sure which skill position player on our offense will make DCs worry.

RB
Zeke ?
Dowdle ?
Vaughn ?
Davis ?

WR
Cooks ?
Tolbert ?
Brooks ?

This isn't a redraft because I thought they did pretty well especially the three offensive lineman and the cornerback but here are some skill position players that were available at our given picks. I'll be watching them to see how they do this season just because that's what fans do.

R2P56 Marshawn Kneeland
Malachi Corley WR
R3P73 Cooper Beebe (my favorite pick)
Roman Wilson WR
R3P87 Marist Liufau
Troy Franklin WR
Javon Baker WR
Jaylen Wright RB
Will Shipley RB
Ray Davis RB
Isaac Guerendo RB
Anthony Gould WR
Tyrone Tracy RB

R5P174 Caelen Carson (good value pick)
Malik Washington WR

 

[big dog cowboy]

Marist was a massive reach

 

[RonWashington]

- Tyler Smith is a good hedge against Guyton busting. We have two players that have Pro Bowl upside at LT. Not saying either would hit that, but its good peice of mind. Being such a late first, it wouldn't end up a bad investment if Guyton eventually kicked out to RT. 29 isn't too high for a RT

- I wonder Zimmer squinted and saw Danielle Hunter in Kneeland. I wouldn't get my hopes, Danielle Hunters aren't very common for Day 2 DE's. I wouldn't be shocked to see Kneeland get a good amount of snaps on the right side on run downs.

- An interesting now on Cooper Beebe. He has 30% body fat. He will trim that down and should be much more athletic.

- As a chase and tackle LB, Liufau seems more like a hitter than anything else. 3.8 tackles per game the last two years is not good

- The Carson pick is the one that makes you really get excited about a draft class. I feel confident about him getting some snaps as a #4 CB this year. Dont feel like he would be burnt toast

- Flournoy being 25 means 2024 might be his one chance to show them something. However I think he is much more talented than Fehoko was when we took him. I think Brooks is a better prospect though

- Thomas was a great dart late. There is potential for him to develop into a starting caliber player. Even hitting halfway to that that, with Bass and Richards last year, they may end up with very good depth on the interior while they are on rookie deals

- I dont expect Rodgers to make the final roster. Short armed NT's dont usually amount to much

Good breakdown . Thomas runs Josh Ball off the roster and if Waletzco is banged up again in camp medical settlement him move on. I like the way the OL is shaping up . Beebe could be a steal .

 

[darthseinfeld]

Good breakdown . Thomas runs Josh Ball off the roster and if Waletzco is banged up again in camp medical settlement him move on. I like the way the OL is shaping up . Beebe could be a steal .

Was Ball on the roster or PS. Cant remember

 

[RonWashington]

Was Ball on the roster or PS. Cant remember

Thought he was still on roster . Time to move on .