Dumb Jocks?

[5Stars]

I blame all stupidity of any NFL player to head trauma...

It's the stupidity of us fans that I have a problem with!

 

[Idgit]

Oklahoma State gave Dexter Manley a bachelor's degree despite him not being able to read or write his own name. He signed his first NFL contract with an "X". Reggie Bush remained eligible despite reportedly not attending a single class his junior year.

Many professors pass kids because they are athletes, hell many give them GOOD grades they did not deserve. Trust me, I've seen it happen first hand on more than a select few occasions. This is how guys like Jamaal Charles and Jorvorskie Lane can be all-academic selections.

Yes. That's why I qualified the sentence you quoted with the one immediately after it.

 

[Angus]

There is a difference between lack of intelligence and ignorance, but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Either affliction hobbles the individual afflicted.

Quite a few NFL players seem to suffer from one or the other, and it gets in the way of settling the present controversy.

 

[peplaw06]

I don't think anyone has said that literally every player in the NFL (or college, or high school) is a stupid lunkhead. Obviously there are many players in the NFL who are intelligent, just as there are people in every walk of life who are intelligent. I think we can all tell the difference between a Darren Woodson and an Adrian Peterson.

I've seen more than a handful of times people claiming that it wouldn't do the players any good to get the owners' books, because they wouldn't be able to understand them anyway. That's painting the entire union as a bunch of stupid lunkheads.

 

[5Stars]

I've seen more than a handful of times people claiming that it wouldn't do the players any good to get the owners' books, because they wouldn't be able to understand them anyway. That's painting the entire union as a bunch of stupid lunkheads.

Did you even read my post above! The last sentence?


(stupid cowboy fans)

I love em all...




:

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I find it quite amusing how the forum views football players. Some of the guys that I've played with are some of the most intelligent people I've ever met and I've work(ed) with engineers from NASA, MIT, UMR, Stafford, etc.. Some became CEOs, doctors, engineers, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, police officers, and firefighters, yep, the full gambit of employment opportunities, imagine that. Conversely, obtaining a career post football is not the major accomplishment; the major accomplishment is balancing all of their studies with the demanding and grueling commitment of playing football.

It is disconcerting that so many hold these myopic and outdated views; perhaps it is a feeling of self-inadequacies that drives their perspective. He is rich, physically gifted, with chicks swooning over him but at least I am waaaaay smarter than he is.

Historically, to disparage anyone from changing any type of inequity the first step is to dehumanize the opposition, typically the group with the least amount of power. So and so is a dumb animal so, so and so does not deserve any fair treatment or respect. It is quite disgusting when you consider what has been done based on using broad-brush strokes when painting the opposition.

It really makes me wonder how do you cheer for your team, is it the equivalent of cheering for the horse in a horse race? Some of the comments on the labor unrest are not surprising because it is status quo; I know their stance and do not respect their opinion anyway. However, from others that I respect, their comments are quite revealing.

The days of the dumb jock has been over for quite a while now. If you participated in ROTC or some equivalent extracurricular activity, you know how difficult it is to fight through mental and physical fatigue to excel in class. Add in the extra physicality of playing football, it become quite remarkable that many football players have the highest GPAs in their class or score higher than the norm when taking standardized tests.

I guess if they are richer than you are, physically more gifted than you, and smarter than you, it does not leave much but hate.

As I read your post, the names of Jefferson, Lincoln, Arthury Godrey and Sartre came to mind.
You are correct that we stereotype, that we smugly assign a whole class of players as low-pants, swaggering, glitzy shallow human beings. I think there is something to be said about tolerance and not generalizng . . . . waitttt . . . .

What was I thinking?

Most athetes are statistically dumb and perform in the bottom percentile of course study, especially when you compare, say, engineering and biology to "mass communications" and "physical education studies."

So dont get all bothered. It can be a generalization AND a statistical fact.
But i appreciate you taking up for the poor student athlete who is overburned by study.

 

[hammer1]

The handful of intelligent ones shouldn't be painted with the same broad brush as the other 98%.

That's a fact.

Without getting too technical...a score of 20 on the Wonderlic is supposedly equivalent to an IQ of 100 (which is average in the US) and the average NFL Wonderlic score is 19, so if you accept this premise...NFL players as a whole have LESS than average intelligence.

Numbers don't lie.

 

[ringmaster]

I find it quite amusing how the forum views football players. Some of the guys that I've played with are some of the most intelligent people I've ever met and I've work(ed) with engineers from NASA, MIT, UMR, Stafford, etc.. Some became CEOs, doctors, engineers, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, police officers, and firefighters, yep, the full gambit of employment opportunities, imagine that. Conversely, obtaining a career post football is not the major accomplishment; the major accomplishment is balancing all of their studies with the demanding and grueling commitment of playing football.

It is disconcerting that so many hold these myopic and outdated views; perhaps it is a feeling of self-inadequacies that drives their perspective. He is rich, physically gifted, with chicks swooning over him but at least I am waaaaay smarter than he is.

Historically, to disparage anyone from changing any type of inequity the first step is to dehumanize the opposition, typically the group with the least amount of power. So and so is a dumb animal so, so and so does not deserve any fair treatment or respect. It is quite disgusting when you consider what has been done based on using broad-brush strokes when painting the opposition.

It really makes me wonder how do you cheer for your team, is it the equivalent of cheering for the horse in a horse race? Some of the comments on the labor unrest are not surprising because it is status quo; I know their stance and do not respect their opinion anyway. However, from others that I respect, their comments are quite revealing.

The days of the dumb jock has been over for quite a while now. If you participated in ROTC or some equivalent extracurricular activity, you know how difficult it is to fight through mental and physical fatigue to excel in class. Add in the extra physicality of playing football, it become quite remarkable that many football players have the highest GPAs in their class or score higher than the norm when taking standardized tests.

I guess if they are richer than you are, physically more gifted than you, and smarter than you, it does not leave much but hate.

The dumb jock thing imo is a sterotype.

There are alot of academically gifted as well as athletically gifted football players out there.

I happen to know one personally from my hometown and the guy is razor sharp smart and he could be a very good lawyer one day because he has that quality about him.

The media wants to dumbify football players in such instances as to what happened to Myron Rolle last year a Rhodes Scholar from Florida State who, with the blessing of Coach Bobby Bowden to go over and study at Oxford University, and some of the mediots grilled him for choosing something as prestigious as the Rhodes Scholar award and a once in a lifetime education from Oxford over football and it really showed before last year's draft when his commitment to the team was being questioned.

Greg McElroy is this year's Rolle a Rhodes Scholar nominee and his high score on the wonderlic which I think is a joke of a test anyway was the subject that he is too smart to play in the NFL talk about an insult.

Good post AD.

 

[The30YardSlant]

The dumb jock thing imo is a sterotype.

There are alot of academically gifted as well as athletically gifted football players out there.

Stereotypes exist for a reason, and it's not because people have wild imaginations

 

[Doomsday101]

The dumb jock thing imo is a sterotype.

There are alot of academically gifted as well as athletically gifted football players out there.

Sure there are and many who got by because they had the ability to play from high school, to college and coaches who did all they could to keep them eligible to play.

No doubt there are many who took advantage of being able to attend college and others who are not interested.

 

[ringmaster]

I played with some very intelligent guys too. I'm betting Ad, that you also played with a few guys who were not so smart. I know you played at a school that is demanding because of barriers they are trying to break. Mine was similar. Not all colleges are trying to do that man. Surely you played against some guys who were not that intelligent.

Let's name some players. Darren Hambrick and his brother Troy. Do you consider them smart jocks? I don't and it is not just Darren's "What do voluntary mean" comments.

Quincy Carter, is he a smart jock? The guy sacrificed your dreams and mine for drugs Ad. He has a son that he never sees because he is too wrapped up in drugs. Know who he blames? Everyone else. I'm betting you won't find that intelligent.

Right now, for me anyway, the poster boy for dumb jocks is Pig Pen Ruthlessraper. Now, I firmly believe he has a form of intelligence simply due to the position he plays. You have to, especially to have any measure of success. Where I find him dumb is that he is the QB of the Pittsburgh Steelers and he feels he needs to force himself on women. Not just that, ugly women. Hopefully the idiot has had his wake up call, but I find him to be a complete moron to jeopardize his career and with an activity that could lead to him getting raped. Moron.

I do not know how you've read my commentary on the Labor situation as it pertains to the players but let me break it down to the simplest form, explanation. To me it is not about the players being dumb. It's barely about the players at all in fact with one exception. I think a lot of players are being duped. I am talking about the guys who will have no career in the NFL. They are fighting for guys who are already set for life. More money for the players is fine. I am all for that. But I'm also honest enough to point out that the more money is mostly going to go to guys who are already set for life. If Jeff Saturday of the Colts gets more money it will pale in comparison to what his fellow lead, Peyton Manning is going to get.

Now, that is fine. Peyton is a draw. Saturday is not. I get that. My problem is that the money Peyton gets means some guys get nothing and these guys are fighting for their share of nothing. I don't find that very smart. If you do, we can agree to disagree. Maybe they're like me. Convinced that all they need is a chance and stardom is there for the taking. The problem is, it isn't.

Where I find players dumb is in how they spend their money. They spend it in ways that suggest they think it will always be there. Unless they invest it wisely, it won't be. That is just a fact of life.

Here's something I don't think some people get. Yes, the owners are rich beyond anyone on this forum's wildest dreams. What happens to a Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder if they simply stop caring about making money? Answer, they will go broke. Some people will not believe that is possible, but it is the truth. Value is tied up in gain more than it is liquid. Jerry Jones does not have a billion dollars in cash at his disposal. He has assets that he could sell and get to that point. If the Dallas Cowboys are not showing a financial gain, then his biggest and best asset is a liability and his worth is diminished exponentially.

Some people will scratch their heads at that. Do you know why Sony is such a valuable commodity? Because they moved on past the walkman. If Sony had made their fortune with a walkman, and they did, and stopped, they are now a dead company. It is the same in any corporation.

The day Jerry Jones quits trying to make money from the Cowboys they will begin to wither in value and eventually if left stagnant they will die. That was where Bum Bright had the team. Jerry bought the Cowboys for a bargain price compared to their worth now. Because he pushed the envelope and he has to continue doing that wisely or they go the way of the Lions.

So I guess what I am saying is that some players are very smart, but not all. I think more than a few are being duped by the NFLPA*. I really do, and I refuse to apologize for that feeling.

I feel the same way you do Hos, in that regard to NFLPA.

 

[ringmaster]

Little bit of generalization there, just like observation you are making Adbutcher. I personally don't subscribe to the Dumb Jock theory, at least not all of them.

I know an academic all american football player myself, a very good friend of mine, who has Phd from Chemistry from Harvard and is now a Executive VP of a big Pharm. company ( and to top off all stereotypes, he is black too, who chose academics over football).

Personaly I am amazed at how some of these elite atheletes managed to excel in studies and athletic endevours. Since I couildn't' do both myself ( I excelled in one sport, but could never have enough time to do really well in Acadamics, not to the capacity I could have easily if i spend time on them, as some of these atheletes manage to do).

Having said that, some of the stuff coming out these pro-players, pretty much shows quite a few of them have no clue on business or how to play PR game etc. Second. being academically good doesn't translate always to be being a very intelligent in worldly stuff.

Third, its pretty common, for a quite a few people to denegrate elite people ( athletes, Actors, business people etc.) to make themselves feel better about themselves, since they can never achieve that themselves.

Me and a friend of mine who is an ex Marine was having this conversation about book sense and common sense.

I know as you say alot of intelligent people out there who can tell you alot about math for example but can't change a flat tire on their cars to save there lives and changing a flat tire on a car is very common.

I was really making a reference to my friend about some of the jokes of tests like the military ASVAB battery they have recruits to take before entering the military, the military is about war, violence of war, death, and destruction training men, and women to become killing machines.

The enemies of war is not going to ask you about your GPA in science or what's the square root of 75 on the battlefield it's killed or be killed just as simple as that.

Classroom intelligence, and real world intelligence can't survive without the other though because in the end they're both needed in the world.

 

[ringmaster]

Sure there are and many who got by because they had the ability to play from high school, to college and coaches who did all they could to keep them eligible to play.

No doubt there are many who took advantage of being able to attend college and others who are not interested.

I agree with that it takes me back to that ESPN Townhall Meeting they had in honoring Martin Luther King Day earlier this year.

The statement Jalen Rose made about if it wasn't for his basketball abilities he would've never got the opportunity to attend Michigan University.

I know with that statement he pissed off alot of people but it's true and some are so athletically gifted that it is hard for some schools to pass up regardless of how top notch that school is.

 

[trickblue]

I've seen more than a handful of times people claiming that it wouldn't do the players any good to get the owners' books, because they wouldn't be able to understand them anyway. That's painting the entire union as a bunch of stupid lunkheads.

Not at all... unless you are a professional, the books are not going to make sense. That's why the NFLPA is hiring Price-Waterhouse. Only a professional in the business can understand how those books are maintained. The NFLPA is looking to have it broken down in layman's terms... just like most of the rest of us would...

Those same accountants/auditors likely could in no way understand a playbook or schemes. Doesn't make them lunkheads, they are just out of their realm...

 

[InmanRoshi]

On the other side of the coin, I like how everyone acts like you have to be a genius business mind to be an NFL Owner. Bill Bidwell and Mike Brown have accomplished absolutely nothing in their lives other than winning the genetic lottery. Guys like Pat Bowlen inherited all his money from his father.

 

[peplaw06]

Not at all... unless you are a professional, the books are not going to make sense. That's why the NFLPA is hiring Price-Waterhouse. Only a professional in the business can understand how those books are maintained. The NFLPA is looking to have it broken down in layman's terms... just like most of the rest of us would...

Those same accountants/auditors likely could in no way understand a playbook or schemes. Doesn't make them lunkheads, they are just out of their realm...

That's the obvious answer. But the people saying such things apparently don't even think the players are smart enough to do the obvious... hire someone who knows what they're doing to look at them.

 

[zrinkill]

On the other side of the coin, I like how everyone acts like you have to be a genius business mind to be an NFL Owner. Bill Bidwell and Mike Brown have accomplished absolutely nothing in their lives other than winning the genetic lottery. Guys like Pat Bowlen inherited all his money from his father.

Jerry Jones gets called an idiot on this board more than any player ...... and he is a self made billionaire.


So I do not see the point. Both sides get called dumb and stupid.

 

[superpunk]

I do not identify with football players, union members or lawyers.

I can only identify with white billionaires. Sorry if that offends you, it's just the way I was raised.

 

[Established1971]

I find it quite amusing how the forum views football players. Some of the guys that I've played with are some of the most intelligent people I've ever met and I've work(ed) with engineers from NASA, MIT, UMR, Stafford, etc.. Some became CEOs, doctors, engineers, soldiers, teachers, lawyers, police officers, and firefighters, yep, the full gambit of employment opportunities, imagine that. Conversely, obtaining a career post football is not the major accomplishment; the major accomplishment is balancing all of their studies with the demanding and grueling commitment of playing football.

It is disconcerting that so many hold these myopic and outdated views; perhaps it is a feeling of self-inadequacies that drives their perspective. He is rich, physically gifted, with chicks swooning over him but at least I am waaaaay smarter than he is.

Historically, to disparage anyone from changing any type of inequity the first step is to dehumanize the opposition, typically the group with the least amount of power. So and so is a dumb animal so, so and so does not deserve any fair treatment or respect. It is quite disgusting when you consider what has been done based on using broad-brush strokes when painting the opposition.

It really makes me wonder how do you cheer for your team, is it the equivalent of cheering for the horse in a horse race? Some of the comments on the labor unrest are not surprising because it is status quo; I know their stance and do not respect their opinion anyway. However, from others that I respect, their comments are quite revealing.

The days of the dumb jock has been over for quite a while now. If you participated in ROTC or some equivalent extracurricular activity, you know how difficult it is to fight through mental and physical fatigue to excel in class. Add in the extra physicality of playing football, it become quite remarkable that many football players have the highest GPAs in their class or score higher than the norm when taking standardized tests.

I guess if they are richer than you are, physically more gifted than you, and smarter than you, it does not leave much but hate.

Wow, how defensive. It's not inadequecies, as you insultingly suggest, it's just plain old observation; long-term, large-sample, observation. You can cite all the exceptions to the rule you have obeserved yourself, doesn't change a darn thing about what decades of observing things have shown to me; that jocks, on the whole are less intelligent than many other sub-sections of the population.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I'm sorry. They is not dum.
Ever time ah see them on the field or on the court, instead of unintelligent manchilds I will try to see them as brain surgeons, pilots, microwave technicians and economists.

Your treatsie is gud and keep up the good work.