Dwayne Bowe or Anthony Spencer?

tyke1doe

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The Cowboys had a chance to draft Bowe last year but traded down and, well, you know the rest of the story.

So now we sit needing a wide receiver, and it doesn't appear the crop is all that good.

While we definitely needed Spencer as insurance for Ellis and to groom as a young player opposite Ware, in hindsight, do you think we should have taken Bowe and found a Spencer-like defender in 2007 draft or in this draft or gone the route that we did?

Oh, sorry for the misspelling of "Dwayne". :(
 

Duane

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Pass rushers are harder to find than WRs in my opinion. So I'd take Spencer all over again.
 

superpunk

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I thought we should have taken Bowe. Thought it was a bigger need.

Then again I also thought that Bobby Carpenter was 'bout to break out last year.

It doesn't matter. We have two first rounders because we traded down and then back up, and so never had a chance to draft Bowe anyway. I think that will serve us pretty well this year, and hopefully Spencer and whoever we select with the Browns will be a far better outcome than JUST Bowe would have been.
 

Zimmy Lives

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Bowe if Dallas was looking to groom a young WR who could contribute in 2008 and Spencer if Dallas was looking to groom a replacement for Ellis in 2008.

Works either way.
 

BigDave95

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tyke1doe;1926111 said:
The Cowboys had a chance to draft Bowe last year but traded down and, well, you know the rest of the story.

So now we sit needing a wide receiver, and it doesn't appear the crop is all that good.

While we definitely needed Spencer as insurance for Ellis and to groom as a young player opposite Ware, in hindsight, do you think we should have taken Bowe and found a Spencer-like defender in 2007 draft or in this draft or gone the route that we did?

Oh, sorry for the misspelling of "Dwayne". :(

That's not a fair question. It should be:

Dwayne Bowe

or

Anthony Spencer AND the #22 pick this year.
 

JPM

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BigDave95;1926126 said:
That's not a fair question. It should be:

Dwayne Bowe

or

Anthony Spencer AND the #22 pick this year.
Well, then it's Spencer and #22.
 

dmq

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If we didn't draft Spencer last year, we would be looking for a Spencer like player in the draft this year. Plus, the selection if we didn't go after Spencer would probably have been Aaron Ross. Also, we have an extra 1st out of that trade down last year. So you have to include that in the equation.
 

Hailmary

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Bowe.

I've felt that we needed to upgrade and get younger at the WR position starting 3 or 4 yrs ago so we wouldn't be in the position that we are in now.

I don't dislike Spencer, I think he'll be a solid contributor for years, but seeing as how we've been investing so much on the D in the first rd and the age of our WRs, I thought Bowe was the bigger need.
 

Woods

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I'm not sure this is a great year to find 3-4 pass rushing OLBs either.

I mean it may be an equally lean year for top WRs and top 3-4 OLBs.

And at that time (of the Draft in 2007), we didn't know that Glenn would have missed the entire year. We were expecting him back for the beginning of the season.

As for Ellis, well, we all knew that his injury was serious and many players never make it back.

So, given what we knew in April 2007, I think we made the right decision based on the information available.
 

Woods

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One other point with respect to drafting Spencer . . . .

Given our defensive collapse the last part of the 2006 season, and given that we didn't know if Ellis was going to make it back (and MANY believed that Ellis wouldn't given the severity of the injury and Ellis' age), I think JJ and the coaching staff felt compelled to help out the defense immediately.
 

the kid 05

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Randy Moss or Greg Ellis
Stephen Jackson or Julius Jones
I'm sure a history buff could tell you more like how we passed on Lynn Swan 2x (i thinkn thats right)

edit: jk we had the first over all pick and then the 22nd he was taken 21st
 

JPM

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the kid 05;1926140 said:
Randy Moss or Greg Ellis
Stephen Jackson or Julius Jones
I'm sure a history buff could tell you more like how we passed on Lynn Swan 2x (i thinkn thats right)

edit: jk we had the first over all pick and then the 22nd he was taken 21st
You can also add that we passed on Tom Brady 5/6 times too.....
 

sago1

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We made the right decision with the information we had. Ellis wasn't even able to get on the field until about 4th game and only part time for several weeks after that. Thinking we could have gotten a Spencer-like player later in the draft is foolishness. I guess the option would have been Carpenter or we kept the player we let go (can't recall name) but even so our defense would have been really bad with only Ware as a pass rusher.

We couldn't have drafted Ross with our pick because the Giants already took him before we did. I think that was a factor in the trade along with the real possibility the Browns' pick would have been at least a top 10. Also Spencer played the run much better in the playoff game then Ellis and even Ware (at least according to either Grizz or Breer analysis of the tape. I wouldn't be surprised if Spencer starts this year with Ellis only a situational pass rusher. In hindsight maybe we shouldn't have traded away our 2nd rounder to get their high 3rd and high 4th. CB Eric Wright was still on the board when we made the trade, drafting Marten wasn't the pick I wanted, I wanted Free and we got him with our own 4th rounder. Stanbach is still a question.

If Spencer & Free become our starters at OLB and LT soon, it will have been a very good draft in 07 when you throw in Folk & Deon Anderson. If Stanbach really contributes this year, it could be a great draft. We will see soon.
 

CATCH17

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I dont understand how you guys thought we needed a younger WR more than another pass rusher.

First of all Greg Ellis came back from an Achilles injury. Hes lucky as heck to even play as well as he did.

2nd of all nobody knows where Greg Ellis's head is. He keeps saying he doesn't want to be with this team and so on.

3rd of all we had TO, Terry, Crayton going into the season.

The Cowboys made the OBVIOUS right choice by getting Spencer.
 

YosemiteSam

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A second OLB was a more pressing need at the time with Glenn and Owens on the roster and Ellis out with injury and also aging. I think Spencer is going to be a good player in the league. I think without question Spencer was the right choice even though I was very high on Bowe. WR is now becoming a pressing issue with Glenn probably gone, and Owens on the verge of 35. Crayton clearly is a good third option, but not a starter.

Even with a mulligan, I still draft Spencer.
 

marchetta

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They are both impact players. IMO, Bowe would have helped us more this year, but Spencer will help us more in the future. We needed a contingency plan for Ellis, and Spencer was it. If Ellis wasn't able to go, I firmly believe Spencer would have played at such a high level that we wouldn't have missed him. Knowing what I know now, I'd still take Spencer ahead of Bowe. He's going to be dynamic once he's starting next year opposite Ware.

Dwayne Bowe WR LSU
STRENGTHS
Dwayne is a very strong, powerful WR with excellent size for his position. He has good speed and great hands. He is an excellent blocker and is the “go to” WR for his college team. Dwayne is just this year discovering what fun it is to play this game when your team is counting on you to be the man. Dwayne plays the WR position with power -- not finesse. He likes being physical and catching the ball in traffic. He reminds me a lot of Eric Moulds WR Houston Texans.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Dwayne needs to get better in reading defenses and running routes as well as how to set up CB’s for the big play down the field. I have no doubt that he will work and improve and become one of the most consistent WR’s from this class.

TALENT BOARD ROUND: 1

I don’t know how many first downs Dwayne’s made for his team when they need one, but I can tell you this – I bet there is not another WR in college that is better than Dwayne at moving the chains for his team. Dwayne is a clutch WR that every team needs to be successful. Don’t be fooled -- he has the speed to go deep and he also has the strength to go up in the air and beat a double team. The big change for Dwayne’s game came after he had an eye operation and stopped double clutching the ball when it was thrown his way. His depth perception was askew, but the operation corrected this and now Dwayne is having fun playing the game. When push comes to shove, you need this kid on your team. You want this kid on your team and if you don’t pick him, I would rather you just go home and think about what the draft is all about. It’s about picking players that are winners. It’s not about picking players that have the best stats. Dwayne is the type of physical WR that every team needs to be successful. He blocks, he catches the ball when it’s thrown to him and he is a leader through his play on the field. I call him Dwayne (Clutch) Bowe.

- Drew Boylhart (thehuddlereport.com)

***********************************​

Anthony Spencer DE Purdue
STRENGTHS
Anthony is a smart, quick, set-you-up-for-the-kill DE. He has a knack for changing the line of scrimmage. He shows good strength and uses his hands very well. He does a solid job handling his responsibilities in the running game and is a strong team player. Anthony understands team football and situational football. He is very athletic with those nice long arms that help him to keep his opponent away from his body. He can do all the pass rushing moves and will use every one of them against you in a game so that the OT has no idea what is coming next. He is going to be a hell of a player at the next level and is very underrated right now.

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

He is undersized -– so what! COACH BETTER. What are you so afraid of? Drafting a player who can actually change the line of scrimmage, sack the QB and cause fumbles? If you are scared of drafting a player like that because he is “undersized”, then stay far away from drafting Anthony! Anthony will always have some problems handling the run when he is double-teamed. So what?! So do most of the weak side DE’s in the league.

TALENT BOARD ROUND: 1

Yes, Anthony could play OLB in a 3-4 defense, but I believe that if you want him to impact in his first year like Mike Anderson (DE Chicago Bears – see archives), just let him put his hand down and rush the passer. He will have more of an immediate impact. Will Anthony eventually be a good OLB in a 3-4 defense? Yes, but his impact for your team is when he rushes the passer and you are making his LTI longer if you try to make him a complete OLB his first year. Anthony will eventually be one of the better OLB’s in a 3-4 defense, but for his first two years, just let him put his hand down and rush the passer. Your defense will be better right away if you do that instead of trying to make Anthony a 3-4 OLB. There are a number of reasons I think players with talent like this will be better for your team if you let them just be pass rushers the first few years instead of every down players learning a new position. 1) They lack the physical stamina to play a full sixteen game schedule. 2) You give them some immediate success in the league, which makes them want to work harder to stay on the field longer. 3) You just can’t beat a fresh pass rusher coming into the game against a tired OT. 4) You make a defense, game plan for another person other than your starters. Now, what have you accomplished by working Anthony this way instead of trying to make him a full time OLB or full time DE right away? Anthony will impact more for your defense his first year and second year while he is learning and getting bigger and stronger. Also, the player will be less likely to get injured because he will have a chance to be in better shape. If DeMarcus Ware had been handled this way instead of playing full time right away, the Cowboys defense would have been impossible to deal with for the last two years instead of just being a young, up and coming defense for the last two years. DeMarcus still would have learned the position and matured. The Cowboys are very lucky he did not get injured in the process. DeMarcus would have had the same imposing impact that Mike Anderson has had for the Bears. Draft Anthony and give him a chance to impact in his first year. Don’t let him waste a year or two learning a new position or learning to be a full time DE for the future. The future is now in the NFL and LTI is more important now than potential “down the road” talent.

- Drew Boylhart (thehuddlereport.com)

BTW, LTI is Length To Impact. It's Drew's measure of how long a player will take to impact at the next level.
 

Hailmary

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CATCH17;1926156 said:
I dont understand how you guys thought we needed a younger WR more than another pass rusher.

First of all Greg Ellis came back from an Achilles injury. Hes lucky as heck to even play as well as he did.

2nd of all nobody knows where Greg Ellis's head is. He keeps saying he doesn't want to be with this team and so on.

3rd of all we had TO, Terry, Crayton going into the season.

The Cowboys made the OBVIOUS right choice by getting Spencer.

Well, TO and Glenn are both over 30, so the Bowe pick in my opinion would've been about preparing for the health at the position for the future. Prior to this season, Crayton would have a good game here and there, but would disappear for long stretches w/o a catch. I was never sold on him, and I'm still not.

Now w/ Ellis' injury, it sort of made sense to draft Spencer, but at the same time I wouldn't have minded seeing either Carpenter or Burnett given a shot had we taken Bowe.

I'm not going to go crazy arguing this point because I think Spencer was a very solid pick, but at the same time I think Bowe in the long run would have had a bigger impact on this team. That's jmo.

Now if we can somehow trade for Roy Williams, I'll be happy and consider the whole point moot.
 

YosemiteSam

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marchetta;1926166 said:
TALENT BOARD ROUND: 1[/B]
Yes, Anthony could play OLB in a 3-4 defense, but I believe that if you want him to impact in his first year like Mike Anderson (DE Chicago Bears – see archives), just let him put his hand down and rush the passer. He will have more of an immediate impact. Will Anthony eventually be a good OLB in a 3-4 defense? Yes, but his impact for your team is when he rushes the passer and you are making his LTI longer if you try to make him a complete OLB his first year. Anthony will eventually be one of the better OLB’s in a 3-4 defense, but for his first two years, just let him put his hand down and rush the passer. Your defense will be better right away if you do that instead of trying to make Anthony a 3-4 OLB. There are a number of reasons I think players with talent like this will be better for your team if you let them just be pass rushers the first few years instead of every down players learning a new position. 1) They lack the physical stamina to play a full sixteen game schedule. 2) You give them some immediate success in the league, which makes them want to work harder to stay on the field longer. 3) You just can’t beat a fresh pass rusher coming into the game against a tired OT. 4) You make a defense, game plan for another person other than your starters. Now, what have you accomplished by working Anthony this way instead of trying to make him a full time OLB or full time DE right away? Anthony will impact more for your defense his first year and second year while he is learning and getting bigger and stronger. Also, the player will be less likely to get injured because he will have a chance to be in better shape. If DeMarcus Ware had been handled this way instead of playing full time right away, the Cowboys defense would have been impossible to deal with for the last two years instead of just being a young, up and coming defense for the last two years. DeMarcus still would have learned the position and matured. The Cowboys are very lucky he did not get injured in the process. DeMarcus would have had the same imposing impact that Mike Anderson has had for the Bears. Draft Anthony and give him a chance to impact in his first year. Don’t let him waste a year or two learning a new position or learning to be a full time DE for the future. The future is now in the NFL and LTI is more important now than potential “down the road” talent.
This guy is asking for something you really can't have. Either you're drafted for a 3-4 or a 4-3. You can't switch your defense to a 4-3 because you don't want to wait two years for him to develop into an OLB. If you have him play DE in a 4-3 his development into a OLB will be slow and arduous.

If Spencer is to be an OLB, then damnit thats what he is to be. Not a DE because you think he will have more of an impact in the beginning. Secondly, as he noted. Spencer is undersized to be a DE for the most part. Most DE are closer to 270-280lbs than 250lbs. MOST 250lbs DE are roadkill against the run. (I said most, yes I know Jason Taylor is 250ish. He is an exception)

During development, instant gratification is generally a bad idea.
 
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