Edge could be a sneaky need?

[gimmesix]

Edge is not a need but you take a guy later if value fits.

Sam Williams was a really good RD2 player and barely got run.

The edge play didn't fall off last year, the CB did when CB2 and CB3 were both out for the year.
And if you can't stop the run a lick and you can't cover the pass rush isn't much of a weapon.

Dallas has so many edge players they keep trying to make then DT and wonder why we cant stop the run at all.

Dallas cuts edge players that get significant number of snaps elsewhere.

Agree with this mostly. I think Parsons got banged up some, which also slowed down our best pass rusher. But I don't see the pass rush being a problem. I'm always for adding more pass rushers, but I don't see it as a priority.

 

[AsthmaField]

If Smith falls I’d be about as excited as you’d be if Spoon falls.

THAT is very excited alright.

I’d be excited for Smith as well.

 

[Cowboyny]

Day 1 CB's are pretty strong. No Sauce but 5 guys that could be very good #1 CB's. After Forbes and Banks it really drops off a cliff. I wouldn't trust getting even a starting caliber CB on day 2

I agree and disagree, maybe not day 1 starters but have the potential to become future starters with some development: Ringo, Cam Smith/Rush, Brents, Ricks, Stevenson, Phillips, Turner all our high upside players at the position.

 

[jterrell]

Agree with this mostly. I think Parsons got banged up some, which also slowed down our best pass rusher. But I don't see the pass rush being a problem. I'm always for adding more pass rushers, but I don't see it as a priority.

Agreed on Parsons but teams didn't need to pass because we were always in short yardage to go.
We couldn't stop the run and kept getting beat at CB.
Pass rushers make living on 3rd and long but we weren't ever getting there.

Any team in the NFL can neutralize a pass rush with 3 step drops if you cant stop slants and hitches and every rush goes for 3-5 yards.

Dallas didn't trade for Gilmore for fun. CB play was atrocious once AB and JLew both went down.

Parsons is gonna get run whether we draft a kid at 26 to play Edge or not. So will DLaw this year.
Edge is a crucial position but there is such a thing as a sunk cost. You invest that R1 and don't give the kid snaps to improve and you handicap him.
You've got Fowler, Williams., Gholston, Armstrong all NOT STARTING.

 

[Hardline]

The Giants won 2 Super Bowls with too many edge rushers.

 

[jterrell]

The Giants won 2 Super Bowls with too many edge rushers.

The Giants had 3 NFL DE's in 2007 when they won the title. Osi, Strahan and Tuck.
You are posting based off vibes instead of reality.
The Giants OL is what came alive and 3 OL plus the FB were All Pro a year later.
They won the trenches as a whole not just at DE.

Anyone arguing Dallas should draft an edge early is lost in the sauce and bad at math.
Draft a kid early to cut Dante Fowler? Take 7 Edges to games?
Make Parsons miserable by playing him off the ball?
None of that makes an iota of sense with holes in many other places.

 

[reddyuta]

The Giants had 3 NFL DE's in 2007 when they won the title. Osi, Strahan and Tuck.
You are posting based off vibes instead of reality.
The Giants OL is what came alive and 3 OL plus the FB were All Pro a year later.
They won the trenches as a whole not just at DE.

Anyone arguing Dallas should draft an edge early is lost in the sauce and bad at math.
Draft a kid early to cut Dante Fowler? Take 7 Edges to games?
Make Parsons miserable by playing him off the ball?
None of that makes an iota of sense with holes in many other places.

It seems like you are advocating for drafting for need rather than BPA,imo its a cardinal sin especially in the 1st rd.

 

[Hardline]

The Giants had 3 NFL DE's in 2007 when they won the title. Osi, Strahan and Tuck.
You are posting based off vibes instead of reality.
The Giants OL is what came alive and 3 OL plus the FB were All Pro a year later.
They won the trenches as a whole not just at DE.

Anyone arguing Dallas should draft an edge early is lost in the sauce and bad at math.
Draft a kid early to cut Dante Fowler? Take 7 Edges to games?
Make Parsons miserable by playing him off the ball?
None of that makes an iota of sense with holes in many other places.

While I agree with most of what you said, Remove Osi, Strahan and Tuck and the Giants don't win either Super Bowl. That is what kept Tom Brady in check. Without that relentless pass rush Brady has his way with them

 

[morasp]

I wouldn't complain too hard about Will McDonald, he's an athletic freaj that would be good value when we pick and w/o a Burrows or Mahomes type at QB it's looking like we need to start moving towards the 49ers mode of roster building.

 

[jterrell]

It seems like you are advocating for drafting for need rather than BPA,imo its a cardinal sin especially in the 1st rd.

I advocate for using brains.
You don't draft guys R1 you don't have a game day slot for.

Drafting a singular position because you need it is very, very bad.
Avoiding a position, you are loaded in however, is the opposite of bad.

I do wonder if fans pay any attention at all or just post here for vibes.
Last year Dallas cut 2-3 guys that were legit NFL edges that got snaps elsewhere.
An impressive young R2 didn't get nearly enough snaps and was one of many guys rotated into inactive status.

Now I have high level thinkers suggesting we just go get another one of those guys at the expense of the 5-6 positions where an R1 starts.

 

[jterrell]

While I agree with most of what you said, Remove Osi, Strahan and Tuck and the Giants don't win either Super Bowl. That is what kept Tom Brady in check. Without that relentless pass rush Brady has his way with them

I totally agree.
Those guys were great.
But the Giants built dominant lines on both sides across all positions.
They weren't 5 deep at DE.
They were well built teams that got at the right time.

Dallas beat the 07 team twice and was a Patrick Crayton dropped pass away from a 3rd win.
Dallas had as good or better pass rush tbh.
Dallas had 46 sacks led by Ware and Greg Ellis with a young Anthony Spencer in tow and the Dallas offense put up like 75 points on NYG in two regular season games.

 

[reddyuta]

I advocate for using brains.
You don't draft guys R1 you don't have a game day slot for.

Drafting a singular position because you need it is very, very bad.
Avoiding a position, you are loaded in however, is the opposite of bad.

I do wonder if fans pay any attention at all or just post here for vibes.
Last year Dallas cut 2-3 guys that were legit NFL edges that got snaps elsewhere.
An impressive young R2 didn't get nearly enough snaps and was one of many guys rotated into inactive status.

Now I have high level thinkers suggesting we just go get another one of those guys at the expense of the 5-6 positions where an R1 starts.

that is exactly what i am suggesting.

lets look at the DEs on the roster-

Sam williams-here to stay
Dorance Armstrong-gone next season
Dante Fowler-on a 1 year deal
Demarcus Lawrence-struggles to stay healthy and largely was not a factor down the stretch and a prime candidate to get cut.
Micah Parsons
Takk Mckkinly-didnt play a single snap last year and was inactive too

you dont think we can use another good DE? what if he way better than Armstrong and Fowler? what if he so good we can cut Lawrence.what you are saying is that he wont get snaps over Fowler and Armstrong-those guys are here for 1 more and they are gone. a DE we draft in the 1st RD cant find snaps over those guys than frankly its the fault of the scouts for rating him so highly.you post is too short sighted .

 

[fivetwos]

@Cowboyny

I’m on board with the idea of never having too many rushers, so if it’s BPA, then definitely.

Thing is, they aren’t gonna ask us, and they don’t operate that way. They use the first three rounds to draft for need.

That’s a page one no-no, but they’ve been getting away with it, so I expect it to continue for now.

I think there will be a TE at 26 that they think can start right away, and that’s how they justify the value.

Figure the second pick to be a RB that many would have thought would be there a round later.

Telling ya man they script this need stuff in advance with players they know will be there.

 

[Cowboyny]

@Cowboyny

I’m on board with the idea of never having too many rushers, so if it’s BPA, then definitely.

Thing is, they aren’t gonna ask us, and they don’t operate that way. They use the first three rounds to draft for need.

That’s a page one no-no, but they’ve been getting away with it, so I expect it to continue for now.

I think there will be a TE at 26 that they think can start right away, and that’s how they justify the value.

Figure the second pick to be a RB that many would have thought would be there a round later.

Telling ya man they script this need stuff in advance with players they know will be there.

They did go best player available with the Lamb and Parsons picks. They are in generally good shape where they can stick with best player available this yr, especially with their 1st rd pick. It's looking like taking a defensive player will be where the value is at the time of their pick. Do think TE will be in the conversation as well.

 

[jterrell]

that is exactly what i am suggesting.

lets look at the DEs on the roster-

Sam williams-here to stay
Dorance Armstrong-gone next season
Dante Fowler-on a 1 year deal
Demarcus Lawrence-struggles to stay healthy and largely was not a factor down the stretch and a prime candidate to get cut.
Micah Parsons
Takk Mckkinly-didnt play a single snap last year and was inactive too

you dont think we can use another good DE? what if he way better than Armstrong and Fowler? what if he so good we can cut Lawrence.what you are saying is that he wont get snaps over Fowler and Armstrong-those guys are here for 1 more and they are gone. a DE we draft in the 1st RD cant find snaps over those guys than frankly its the fault of the scouts for rating him so highly.you post is too short sighted .

No we cannot use another Edge:
Parsons
DLaw
Armstrong -- who says he is gone? Takk and Flower both came back as FA.
Sam
Dante
Takk

and this doesn't include Gholston who was drafted as a DE but has been moved inside because of our insane depth.

With the above Takk doesn't play much if all again.
If fact he could be cut anyway and he'd probably get signed and play elsewhere.
A Sam Williams level guy would be a year behind ACTUAL Sam Williams who's likely 4th best at DE.

That doesn't mean I avoid the position for 7 rounds but it does mean I am avoiding it in R1 and R2 unless the value bowls me over.
Value isn't there to use priority resources at Edge.

 

[Cowboyny]

that is exactly what i am suggesting.

lets look at the DEs on the roster-

Sam williams-here to stay
Dorance Armstrong-gone next season
Dante Fowler-on a 1 year deal
Demarcus Lawrence-struggles to stay healthy and largely was not a factor down the stretch and a prime candidate to get cut.
Micah Parsons
Takk Mckkinly-didnt play a single snap last year and was inactive too

you dont think we can use another good DE? what if he way better than Armstrong and Fowler? what if he so good we can cut Lawrence.what you are saying is that he wont get snaps over Fowler and Armstrong-those guys are here for 1 more and they are gone. a DE we draft in the 1st RD cant find snaps over those guys than frankly its the fault of the scouts for rating him so highly.you post is too short sighted .

Pass rush disappeared outside of Parsons since they started to help their run defense, Parsons then wore down and couldn't get to the QB. The Jaguar game was one I remember, all they needed was a sack and couldn't get one, even with a backup Tackle playing.

You are right about the future, outside of Parsons/Sam the rest could be all gone next offseason.

The last time Quinn personally worked out a pass rusher, he became a Cowboy in Sam Williams. He did this will McDonald and he also was a national 30 visitor. He is on the short list of prospects at 26 they are targeting.

 

[tm1119]

Still think inside pass rush is more important to the Cowboys right now. Osa is fine, but not sure if he’s a real difference maker. Plus I think he’s gotten a bit of a pass with the blame for our run stopping woes. Not saying it’s all his fault, and yes a better 1 tech would surely help, but he still doesn’t exactly hold his own in that department either. A pass rushing 3 tech that can hold their own vs the run would help a ton…of course easier said than done to acquire

 

[jterrell]

They did go best player available with the Lamb and Parsons picks. They are in generally good shape where they can stick with best player available this yr, especially with their 1st rd pick. It's looking like taking a defensive player will be where the value is at the time of their pick. Do think TE will be in the conversation as well.

OL, TE, DT all walk in starters in R1.
Could use 3-4 another positions as well for day 1 depth. WR, FS, LB, CB.

But Edge isn't even on the radar and might not make game 1 active status.
Edge and QB are easily two strongest positions in Dallas.

CeeDee worked because you had 3 starting spots at WR.
Parsons worked because you could play him as a pass rusher, off ball linebacker or hybrid.

They didn't dump a 1st into a QB to set him for 3 years like GB largely because that is insane.

Fans wildly overrate Edge today because they ignore how the positional change has made them far easily to find than when teams were spreading them thin between 4-3 DE, 3-4 DE and OLB

 

[Beaker42]

-Started as an elite pass rushing team
-Once Quinn removed all the twists/stunts to help stop the run, the pass rush outside Parsons disappeared.
-Sam Williams wasn't the same player after his car crash
-Really struggled down the stretch getting to the QB
-It is quite possible, major transition coming in 2024, the likes of DLaw, Fowler, Armstrong could all be gone.

Our LB play was a BIG reason we suffered against the run. Drew Sanders could fix that.

 

[morasp]

Our LB play was a BIG reason we suffered against the run. Drew Sanders could fix that.

Bingo, the guy is a playmaker. And he would add some rush ability. LVE is good but I don't think he would see the field with the 49ers.