Entitlement

[Flinger]

It's my observation that the were undisciplined (penalties, unsure of their assignments, not very smart, soft, etc.) long before Wade, even before and during the Parcells era. Although Wade took softness to a new level, it would be intellectually dishonest to place the entire blame on Wade.

I just glad they realize it and are finally addressing it. Long overdue...

 

[Dallas4ever]

We are still feeling the effects of Wade. We have to continue purging the team.

Really!! Maybe we should've purged all of the coordinators along with Wade.


When food goes bad in the fridge and starts stinking do you keep any of it?

 

[WV Cowboy]

You may have miss my point, what I was trying to say is that even before the Giants and the Steelers where winning SBs their players were still living in million dollar homes. This is common throughout professional sports whether it be the NYG or the Charlotte Bobcats. It's not like the NYG players just moved into exclusive neighborhoods because the won SBs and the Bobcats (one of the worst teams in NBA history) are living in a trailer park or something.

My point is that big houses and fancy cars weren't good enough for the Giants, Steelers and Patriots, but it seems like it is for the "rock stars" of Dallas.

Win or lose they seem content to play the role of a "Dallas Cowboy, team of the 90's".

 

[JBond]

We live in an age of entitlement. I'm not surprised that carries over to the sports world.

 

[birdwells1]

My point is that big houses and fancy cars weren't good enough for the Giants, Steelers and Patriots, but it seems like it is for the "rock stars" of Dallas.

Win or lose they seem content to play the role of a "Dallas Cowboy, team of the 90's".

Oh I agree but since the "millionare athlete" is a given, how do these other teams get these guys to stay hungry? One theory is that you have to have a hard-nosed no bs coach someone who threatens their "rock star" status and the buck has to stop with him. To my knowledge Balt, SF, NE, NYG, Philly, and Pitts all have that kind of coach and have enjoyed varying levels of success with them. Another thing about these teams is that (with the exception of Kraft) I wouldn't know any of their owners or gms if I ran into them at a Home Depot. Oh I know the names but I couldn't pull them out of a police lineup.

Does Garrett have some off that in his DNA, only time will tell.
Can Jerry allow the buck to stop with his coach? Even if that means staying out of the spotlight?

I think that these 2 points have a lot to do with changing the culture at Valley Ranch, I have more faith in the first point than I have in the second.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Hos, when ah read your post ah felt like standing up and applauding. But i had to wipe first.

So now, standing in the eye-hand coordination rehab room I will.
Bravo. I found myself nodding at your every point. Almost.

However, Hos, something to consider. If we assept the notion that there might be entitlement (and I strongly think there is), we must remember that the sense of entitlement began long before these barely-educated athletes ever saw an NFL training field.

These athletes have had a sense of entitlement since the eighth grade when coaches told them they had a great future in high school and were allowed to take home economics or art classes instead and "mass communications" in collige. Early on, the high school boosters gave them summer jobs and then years later, these athletes got cars from dealership for a quarter on the dollar. Then the budding stars in collige were taken on weekend getaways with smiling blonde hostesses and told they were the best thing ever to happen to their colliges.

So entitlement happened early. Ah think by the time these athletes got to the NFL, the sense of entitlement was second nature and not something that can be erased by talk of "It's a team effort" or "We're in this together" in the NFL.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Jimmy was someone the players feared. He could take a player who had a sense of entitlement and make him a team first kind of guy because he commanded fear. Jimmy had an aura about him that few coaches have. I think Jimmy was the closest thing to Lombardi as far as someone the players feared as I have ever seen.

This type of coaching mentality doesn't work since free agency started.

 

[birdwells1]

Hos, when ah read your post ah felt like standing up and applauding. But i had to wipe first.

So now, standing in the eye-hand coordination rehab room I will.
Bravo. I found myself nodding at your every point. Almost.

However, Hos, something to consider. If we assept the notion that there might be entitlement (and I strongly think there is), we must remember that the sense of entitlement began long before these barely-educated athletes ever saw an NFL training field.

These athletes have had a sense of entitlement since the eighth grade when coaches told them they had a great future in high school and were allowed to take home economics or art classes instead and "mass communications" in collige. Early on, the high school boosters gave them summer jobs and then years later, these athletes got cars from dealership for a quarter on the dollar. Then the budding stars in collige were taken on weekend getaways with smiling blonde hostesses and told they were the best thing ever to happen to their colliges.

So entitlement happened early. Ah think by the time these athletes got to the NFL, the sense of entitlement was second nature and not something that can be erased by talk of "It's a team effort" or "We're in this together" in the NFL.

I hear you but that doesn't explain why, in Dallas it seems more prevalent. Again, athletes have been paid millions for year, that's league wide. Athletes has been coddle for years, like you state in your post, and that's league wide. What are the more successful organizations doing to provide a culture where entitlement and coddling is not tolerated.

 

[birdwells1]

This type of coaching mentality doesn't work since free agency started.

Tell that to Coughlin, Belichek, and both Harbaughs.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

This type of coaching mentality doesn't work since free agency started.

I think Bill and Tom C would disagree.
Not to mention jet asst coaches Dennis Thurman - yes that one and Mike Westoff (special teams coach)- two of the hardest SOBs your ever wanna meet.

Cutting a player is not the only way to get to a player - there are other ways - like making him look bad in front of his teammates. Some coaches play head games - Bill was famous for that.

 

[Kangaroo]

I think Bill and Tom C would disagree.
Not to mention jet asst coaches Dennis Thurman - yes that one and Mike Westoff (special teams coach)- two of the hardest SOBs your ever wanna meet.

Cutting a player is not the only way to get to a player - there are other ways - like making him look bad in front of his teammates. Some coaches play head games - Bill was famous for that.

Coughlign had to lighten up a little he had almost a full rebellion on his hand and when he did they made their SB run (The first run they made). He had one foot out the door when he made some changes from the tyrant he was to be a little more laid back he adapt to the change in the NFL culture.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

I think a lot of organizations pay lip service to looking for the RKG. But when the rubber hits the road they're prepared to take a guy with talent and upside, even when he's not the RKG. The Bengals have been the most obvious example over the past decade or so. But the Cowboys were a fine example themselves not too long ago. T.O., Pacman, Antonio Bryant, Derek Ross...

To me, you're not really looking for the RKG if you're prepared to just make an allowance each time a talented guy comes along who doesn't fit the RKG mold. You're only really committed to the RKG if you go beyond saying "the one thing they have to have is talent" and insist upon talent meeting character and love for the game.

Well if your only going for the RKG - I don't know if you would be able to field a very good team - like I said, not too many of those guys around. Lee and Ware types (RKG and talent) get scooped up pretty quick.

Remember the 09 draft.. I remember reading how a few of them were captains on their teams and how they are hard workers ect. - how did that work out...

Look at our 90s team - they certainly weren't saints - you do remember the "White House" - not all of them could be a Moose or Troy.

The NFL and a team is a microcosm of society your gonna have all types.
I have yet to see a team full of RKGs.

Is Dez the RKG? maybe not but he sure has some natural talent and ability and with some work could be one of the best. Sometimes you have to take a shot with guys like that. Not saying I agree or disagree but thats just the way things are.

 

[DallasInDC]

I don't know - Bill had to go it it when he came to Dallas and he had no problem laying down the law. I still say there has to be some kind of fear factor involved - not saying you have to be a tyrant now.

I always say what made Tom, Jimmy and Bill great coaches was the ability to make the players play BEYOND what they thought they could and they each were feared in one way or another.

jason IMO is gonna have a tough time changing the culture because he doesn't have the "skins on the wall" or the personality to instill that fear factor.

I don't know if BP's situation in Dallas is a good comparison to a modern day Jimmie type. BP had skins on the wall, brought in his players to institute his philosphy and took over a team in which 80% of the players either shouldn't be in the NFL or should serve as backups only. It is a lot easier to instill fear with players that know that most likley their next stop is out of the league (plus they were already beat down by all of the losing that they were happy to have a saviour of BP's calibre.

If i had to choose a Post FA coach to compare to the hard*** types, it would be Coughlin (who on at least two occaisions looked like he was going to get run off the team) and Belichick (who earned the right to be a hard*** based on what he accomplished).

If you put either of these coaches on a team of talented me first types that they would not be able to generate anywhere near the same succes.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

Coughlign had to lighten up a little he had almost a full rebellion on his hand and when he did they made their SB run (The first run they made). He had one foot out the door when he made some changes from the tyrant he was to be a little more laid back he adapt to the change in the NFL culture.

Yes he did lighten up but he didn't all of a sudden turn into Wade - he was to the extreme and thats not good either.

You see him on the sidelines he'll still get on a player at the drop of a hat.

 

[DallasInDC]

Its like the RKG thing - some ppl act like that unique to Jason.
Thing is, tell me one coach that doesn't look for the RKG - a guy who has a high motor, high character players - of course they all want those types but the one thing they have to have is talent, sometimes the two don't meet. Thats why IMO you need a coach that can get thru to a player either by fear or any other means - to me fear works better, if Bill was known for anything it was that he knew how to deal with the "problem child".

It all depends their philosophy and how much they value it. some GM's/coaches are willing to sacrifice a little bit of talent for team first attitudes because they see that as intangible benefit that can compensate for more talent. Others may rather have the talent despite a player being me first/headcase/troublemaker because they prefer to have the pure talent/athleticism. IMO, the former tend to have more consitent success, because of the cog in the wheel philospohy Reality mentioned above. The machine works better when all parts are working in synchronicity than when you have a few high power cogs that don't turn in the same direction as all the other parts - eventually it will break down no matter how powerful the few cogs are.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

I don't know if BP's situation in Dallas is a good comparison to a modern day Jimmie type. BP had skins on the wall, brought in his players to institute his philosphy and took over a team in which 80% of the players either shouldn't be in the NFL or should serve as backups only. It is a lot easier to instill fear with players that know that most likley their next stop is out of the league (plus they were already beat down by all of the losing that they were happy to have a saviour of BP's calibre.

If i had to choose a Post FA coach to compare to the hard*** types, it would be Coughlin (who on at least two occaisions looked like he was going to get run off the team) and Belichick (who earned the right to be a hard*** based on what he accomplished).

If you put either of these coaches on a team of talented me first types that they would be able to generate anywhere near the same succes.

And do you think coddling these players would work better - we see what happened with Wade here... Ill take my chances with a BB to Tom C type to convert some and to eventually get the ship righted.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I would rather not see a coach buddy up with players on the sideline.

I would rather see the coach removed from the celebrations, high-fives and such.
Actually any time during the game, he can't be yucking it up and celebrating. He has a job to do, .. celebrate after the game.

The players don't need a cheerleader, they need a leader.

I guess we were all spoiled by Tom Landry, but that is the way I grew up thinking it should be.

 

[DallasInDC]

And do you think coddling these players would work better - we see what happened with Wade here... Ill take my chances with a BB to Tom C type to convert some and to eventually get the ship righted.

I don't advocate either approach...I couldn't stand Wade's approach (it reminded me alot of Switzer's let the inmates run the asyulm approach). I prefer a coach who understand what motivates a player and approaches each player based on how he can get the most out of him. I also believe the RKG plays heavily on a coaches ability to get players to do what is best for the team and feel a commitment/desire to do their best not let the team down. When you have committed and accountable players, you spend more time coaching strategy than trying tear a player down and fear retribution.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

I hear you but that doesn't explain why, in Dallas it seems more prevalent. Again, athletes have been paid millions for year, that's league wide. Athletes has been coddle for years, like you state in your post, and that's league wide. What are the more successful organizations doing to provide a culture where entitlement and coddling is not tolerated.

ah disagree. it is not more prevalent in Big D.
I know, you says "seems more prevalent"

I think it is actually less in Big D. The problems other teams have with there athaletes is a lot bigger.

 

[nyc-cowboy]

It all depends their philosophy and how much they value it. some GM's/coaches are willing to sacrifice a little bit of talent for team first attitudes because they see that as intangible benefit that can compensate for more talent. Others may rather have the talent despite a player being me first/headcase/troublemaker because they prefer to have the pure talent/athleticism. IMO, the former tend to have more consitent success, because of the cog in the wheel philospohy Reality mentioned above. The machine works better when all parts are working in synchronicity than when you have a few high power cogs that don't turn in the same direction as all the other parts - eventually it will break down no matter how powerful the few cogs are.

Yes true but there are a lotta players between the trouble maker and RKG - there is no exact science in determining where one is on that scale.

Obviously nobody wants to go crazy either way where you sacrifice talent for a RKG type and you don't want a bunch of talented trouble makers either.