ESPN - Ex-Pats employee Walsh sends NFL video of Pats' taping

[Little Jr]

wait a minute i thought the tapes they got from the pats were from 2006 and up, these tapes are from 2000 to 2002 so are they the same or they different?

if they are different, then belicheck lied, and we all know how goodells doesnt like to be lied too,

I'm not sure Belicheck lied. He said they turned over all the tapes they(Patriots) had. Thats why I dont think anything will happen.

 

[TheKey]

Belicheck already admitted to cheating since 2000. The list of tapes doesnt include the Rams walkthrough, maybe he is saving that for the 13th.

 

[jman]

I'm not sure Belicheck lied. He said they turned over all the tapes they(Patriots) had. Thats why I dont think anything will happen.

I don't think he lied, but did he tell the entire truth? Not a snowballs chance in South Florida.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Even with this new evidence I still don't expect Godell to do much

No kidding, based on what they just said. The tapes consist of something they've already been punished for. To punish them again for "recording signals" would be double jeopardy.

The threat that Goodell made was if they recorded the practice before the SuperBowl, which clearly that tape wasn't handed over.

All you really need to know in this situation is how long it took before the Patriots allowed tapes to be released. That should tell you that there was clearly something the Patriots didn't want to have released and I'm almost positive that *something* has vanished.

The NFL seems to be following the NBA in their slide in credibility. The NFL has more than enough leverage over the Patriots to have forced the release of the tapes a long time ago. In my opinion, the NFL knows exactly what was video taped, and was buying time to allow the Patriots to sweep it under the carpet.

Last time, they took the evidence and destroyed it and then took it on the chin. This time, they are letting the Patriots destory the evidence so if Shiitake Mustrooms hits the fan again, they will just bring a sledge hammer out on the Patriots and the NFL front office won't look bad. NOT!

Goodell rules the players with an iron fist, but the team owners got him by the nads.

 

[starfrombirth]

Yeah. The NFL already released a statement that the Patriots wouldn't be further penalized because this was information they already knew about. I still say Goodell and Belichek are sleeping together.

 

[lspain1]

Goodell rules the players with an iron fist, but the team owners got him by the nads.

This seems a bit excessive. Goodell punished the Patriots for taping signals. Bellichick admitted to the practice and was personally fined. $500K is not a small chunk of change, even for him. The Patriots organization lost a 1st round pick for permitting the practice. If the tapes turned over by Walsh show some new nefarious practice then more punishment will ensue. If they show what the Patriots already admitted to, how should their punishment increase?

You are accusing Goodell of covering up a much larger scandal. The damage caused by such a cover up would far outweigh any advantage gained by a cover up. Goodell has no incentive to cover up anything as far as I can see. He is not in the pocket of Kraft. In our media saturated world, maintaining a cover up of any magnitude would be virtually impossible and threaten the future of the NFL (via its anti-trust exemption). Why do you think Specter is involved?

Please place your conspiracy theories aside because, like most conspiracy theories, they require too many people to be involved to be successful.

 

[starfrombirth]

This seems a bit excessive. Goodell punished the Patriots for taping signals. Bellichick admitted to the practice and was personally fined. $500K is not a small chunk of change, even for him. The Patriots organization lost a 1st round pick for permitting the practice. If the tapes turned over by Walsh show some new nefarious practice then more punishment will ensue. If they show what the Patriots already admitted to, how should their punishment increase?

You are accusing Goodell of covering up a much larger scandal. The damage caused by such a cover up would far outweigh any advantage gained by a cover up. Goodell has no incentive to cover up anything as far as I can see. He is not in the pocket of Kraft. In our media saturated world, maintaining a cover up of any magnitude would be virtually impossible and threaten the future of the NFL (via its anti-trust exemption). Why do you think Specter is involved?

Please place your conspiracy theories aside because, like most conspiracy theories, they require too many people to be involved to be successful.

The dangers and difficulties involved do not preclude them from happening. If that was the case then there would never be conspiracies. We all know that there are tho. Just because there are a lot of people involved doesn't mean that Goodell isn't a closet patriots fan.

 

[Redball Express]

..about the Pats doing this and having full knowledge of it and using it to their advantage..

..this will take on proportions of the famous Black Sox cheating feasco and the famous Pete Rose censure from baseball.

Somebody is going to have to take responsibility for this and I think the franchise and the HC are going to have to be severely punished, more than what has happened so far.

If all this is true, this is cheating at a significant level and if the HC and the franchise have attempted to cover this up past the initial Goodell actions..

it's going to be precident-setting.

We'll see.

:starspin ReDBaLL ExPreSS :starspin

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I haven't seen anyone comment about the fact that Walsh's attorney said his client never said he had a tape of the Rams walk through and that Walsh was never the source for the Boston Globe story.

That's what was interesting to me about the report.

Hmm, if Walsh wasn't the Globe's source, then who was the source?

Last night Adam Schefter of the NFL Network spewed some nonsense about the Pats suing The Globe for libel since Walsh doesn't have a tape. Now that we know Walsh wasn't the source for the story, Schefter looks stupid for jumping to that conclusion.

My feeling is the Pats just want this behind them and there is no way they ae going to pursue an action against The Globe because they do NOT want to re-open that can of worms.

 

[TheCount]

Unless there is some overwhelming evidence that practically forces the commish to further penalize the Pats, I don't expect anything to come from this.

Agreed, unless someone was captured committing a murder, I bet it all disappears.

 

[YosemiteSam]

This seems a bit excessive. Goodell punished the Patriots for taping signals. Bellichick admitted to the practice and was personally fined. $500K is not a small chunk of change, even for him. The Patriots organization lost a 1st round pick for permitting the practice. If the tapes turned over by Walsh show some new nefarious practice then more punishment will ensue. If they show what the Patriots already admitted to, how should their punishment increase?

You are accusing Goodell of covering up a much larger scandal. The damage caused by such a cover up would far outweigh any advantage gained by a cover up. Goodell has no incentive to cover up anything as far as I can see. He is not in the pocket of Kraft. In our media saturated world, maintaining a cover up of any magnitude would be virtually impossible and threaten the future of the NFL (via its anti-trust exemption). Why do you think Specter is involved?

Please place your conspiracy theories aside because, like most conspiracy theories, they require too many people to be involved to be successful.

Goodell did nothing until the media found out. At that point his hand was forced in the name of saving face. (not just his own, but the NFL as a whole)

You seem to forget that it's easier to sweep under the carpet than to face the music. Why do you think so many people won't admit anything until after they've been caught? DUH!

Do we know exactly what happen? No, this whole thread is a conspiracy theory. This is the exact place to release my theories and everyone else to release theirs. I think you are in the wrong place here if that is how you want it.

 

[lspain1]

Goodell did nothing until the media found out. At that point his hand was forced in the name of saving face. (not just his own, but the NFL as a whole)

You seem to forget that it's easier to sweep under the carpet than to face the music. Why do you think so many people won't admit anything until after they've been caught? DUH!

Do we know exactly what happen? No, this whole thread is a conspiracy theory. This is the exact place to release my theories and everyone else to release theirs. I think you are in the wrong place here if that is how you want it.

Wow, I simply disagree with everything you have written here. You have no idea what Goodell was doing and "when he knew it." My whole premise here is that Goodell has ZERO vested interest in a cover up. I'm not focused on the details of the investigation but the consequences of each alternative to the NFL. The NFL can easily withstand punishment of Bellichick and the Patriots. It can NOT withstand the scandal of a cover up and Specter's involvement confirms my assessment. You are assuming that Goodell (and many others) are both criminal and stupid.

I simply don't buy that and I'll wager you can't come up with a single example showing otherwise. The NFL is simply the best run sports league on the planet...and it shows.

This thread is NOT about conspiracy theories. I thought it was about whether or not Walsh's tapes revealed any new details about the Patriots. I believe they do not, and that again lends credence to my assessment of the situation (and refutes yours).

 

[viman96]

Not sure how much of an issue this is but I believe originally Belicheat said they filmed the defensive calls and the new tapes show them filming offensive calls as well. Also I do not recall if the NFL knew about them filming the Steelers in the AFCC game. If that is new information then it seems to me that would be grounds for further actions.

 

[viman96]

One tape turned over by Walsh shows Patriots also stole offensive signals
Fish

By Mike Fish
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: May 8, 2008, 10:43 PM ET


What Is On The Matt Walsh Tapes?

From Day 1 of the Spygate saga in September, the controversy over New England's illicit videotaping practices has centered on the Patriots' efforts to steal their opponents' defensive signals. But the tapes delivered via FedEx to NFL headquarters in New York on Thursday morning also include evidence of an effort by New England to steal offensive signals, which would broaden the extent of the team's surveillance operation.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and staff members began viewing the eight tapes within hours of their long-awaited delivery, in anticipation of Tuesday's scheduled interview with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh. As part of an indemnification pact reached last month with the league, Walsh agreed to turn over any videotapes or related materials he had from his tenure with the team.

Perhaps the surprise entry on the list of videotaping documents Walsh turned over to the league was tape No. 3, labeled "OFF Signals" from New England's game against the Miami Dolphins on Oct. 7, 2001. That is the only tape labeled as such on a copy of the list obtained by ESPN.com. Walsh's attorney, Michael Levy, confirmed it was the lone footage in Walsh's possession of offensive coaches' signaling from the sidelines.

Mortensen reaction

ESPN NFL analyst Chris Mortensen looks at what could happen when Matt Walsh meets with the NFL on May 13, but doesn't think more can come of the Spygate investigation. Podcast Insider
"[It] contains shots of Miami's offensive coaches signaling Miami's offensive players, followed by a shot from the end zone camera of Miami's offensive play, followed by a shot of Miami's offensive coaches signaling Miami's offensive players for the next play, then edited to be followed by a shot of the subsequent Miami offensive play," Levy said of the tape. "And that pattern repeats throughout the entire tape, with occasional cuts to the scoreboard."

Goodell has made repeated references to the stealing of defensive signals by New England. That is, in part, presumably because the league has allowed direct radio communication from a coach to the quarterback since the 1994 season, diminishing the need for hand signals.

"We don't know [about attempts to steal offensive signals] yet because we haven't looked at the tapes," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Thursday before the league had completed its review of the new evidence. "All we have is the list supplied last night [by Walsh's attorney]. One of them is labeled 'OFF signals.' None of others are listed that way. Let us look at the tapes and we'll have more to say about that.

Specter Seeks Cooperation

Sen. Arlen Specter warned the NFL not to rush to judgment Thursday, suggesting the league is premature in trying to put the Spygate saga to rest.

Specter, R-Pa., spoke as commissioner Roger Goodell and top league officials prepared to view videotapes turned over by former New England Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh. Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, has been critical of the investigation the league conducted into the Patriots' illicit taping practices.

"I think it is very unfortunate that the NFL has already started its 'nothing new' spin before watching the tapes or finding out what Matt Walsh has to say," Specter said. "Let's see where the evidence leads."

Walsh, employed by the Patriots from 1997 to 2003, is scheduled to meet with league officials Tuesday in New York. After that session, he is to travel to Washington and sit down with Specter and his staff.

Specter formally requested the league make available to him the evidence turned over by Walsh, which consists of eight tapes dating from 2000 through 2003. But as of Thursday night he had not gotten confirmation on when, or even if, he'd get the tapes.

"As a matter of basic fair play, I got to have the time to prepare," said Specter. "It's equal access … I'm waiting for them."

Goodell, however, suggested in a letter last Friday that Specter would eventually gain access to the tapes, saying: "Once I see the material I will be in a better position to respond … [I'm] confident we'll be able to make satisfactory arrangements for you or key staff to review the material."

Specter has complained about the lack of cooperation from the NFL as his staff has attempted to delve into the matter. Very few key individuals have spoken when approached by staff members. And attorneys for the Patriots and New York Jets have advised team employees against speaking with Specter.

"I got three pages of people who refused to talk to me,'' he said.

-- Mike Fish

"The rule which the Patriots violated was the policy that prohibits use of equipment for the taping of offensive or defense signals. I know there've been references to defensive signals, which is more logical. But let us look at the tapes and verify what is on there."

Although Walsh turned over eight tapes this week, the number of games in which he personally videotaped opposing coaches is unclear. One source told ESPN.com that it "absolutely" is not the case that the six games on the eight tapes are the only instances the Patriots taped opponents during Walsh's tenure with the team.

One of the eight tapes in the package was shot by someone other than Walsh. It is a Sept. 29, 2002, game against San Diego, which was shot after Walsh was promoted from the video department. That tape captures just the coaches on the sideline, and the scoreboard before the game action is edited in.

The Patriots declined the opportunity to comment on Thursday.

The advancing sophistication in New England's videotaping practices apparently is also evident on the tapes, which begin with a Sept. 25, 2000, game against Miami and run through that 2002 game against San Diego. It's also obvious throughout that the video shooter has one job on game day: to capture the opposing team's sideline coaches.

In one of the last tapes that Walsh shot -- the 2002 AFC Championship Game against the Pittsburgh Steelers -- the finished product includes sideline footage of the Pittsburgh coaches sending in signals, followed by a scan of the scoreboard that captures down, distance and game time, followed by two separate shots of the ensuing play, one from above the press box and the other from an end zone camera.

"The other seven tapes show the final product, which is a series of coaches' signals, followed by the play, followed by coaches' signals and then the next play -- all lined up one after another," said Levy, who represents Walsh. "So the final videotapes contain the opposing coaches' signals lined up directly with the play that was run, one after another."

Goodell is likely to quiz Walsh on these issues at their meeting scheduled for 7:30 a.m. Tuesday. Walsh is scheduled to travel to Washington, D.C., later in the day to meet with Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter, the ranking Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee.

Specter has been critical of the NFL for destroying evidence turned over in September by New England, including six other tapes and notes from other taped games. Although those tapes only date back to the 2006 season, Aiello, the NFL spokesperson, said Thursday the notes dated to at least the 2002 season.

The notes were destroyed, and Aiello said he is uncertain whether there is any record of the games involved. He did say that Goodell previously informed Specter that details on the taping of the 2002 AFC championship, as well as three other games with Pittsburgh, were part of the notes.

Aiello said it has yet to be decided whether the Walsh tapes will be made public. But as the tapes arrived at the league office in New York, officials were relieved to find the package didn't include a long-rumored video of the St. Louis Rams' walk-through practice the day before the 2002 Super Bowl, which would have put a huge cloud over the league's marquee event.

"That is fair assumption," Aiello said of the feelings of relief in the league office. "I'd rather leave those questions and answers to the commissioner, but it's unfortunate that that had been reported, and apparently there's no substance to it."

Mike Fish is an investigative reporter for ESPN.com. He can be reached at michaeljfish@gmail.com.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Even with this new evidence I still don't expect Godell to do much

Are you kidding.... the delay was probably them devising a plan to keep this guy quiet and edit the content.

There is no way that Goodell is going to allow a former employee discredit the league by slamming a team.

 

[DABOYZ]

this whole thing is not about "conspiracy theories." It is about a league which has become powerful enough to draw the interest of a state senator. The NFL and Roger screwed up this entire investigation. Name one instance where information was shredded after an investigation! Then come talk to me.

Goodell wasn't sleeping with Belicheck as some might suggest. He was simply protecting his game from a similiar sitution that tore MLB apart. Goodell made a big mistake by not allowing the fans to know the facts.

 

[AdamJT13]

One tape turned over by Walsh shows Patriots also stole offensive signals

This might be the key thing in Walsh's evidence.

Here's what Goodell said on April 2 about Walsh --

"If it's just taping of defensive signals, we know that," Goodell said April 2 at the NFL's annual meeting in Palm Beach, Fla. "The Patriots admitted to that. He seems to imply that he has something different and certainly something I would be concerned with if it's true. So, I'd like to see the evidence."


And here's what Goodell said on April 24 --

"Taping a walk-through is much different than what I punished them for. That is a different violation and I would take that very seriously. So, if they have that, then that is something that would cause me to reevaluate the discipline. However, they were not disciplined for that, but only for taping defensive signals, and that was the only violation we have any evidence of."

Unless Goodell mispoke or spoke carelessly both times, he didn't know the Patriots were taping offensive signals, too.

 

[CATCH17]

Its all but officially over.

Pats arent going to get in any more trouble.

I still wish he wouldnt have destroyed those other tapes. That is crazy.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

The fair punishement was delivered. Not by Goodell but by the Giants.

The best thing that could have happened was the Giants having a Cinderella season and beating the Pats right after they were caught cheating.

Not caught cheating = 3 SB wins
Caught cheating = 1 SB loss

THAT right there speak volumes

 

[DBoys]

Its all but officially over.

Pats arent going to get in any more trouble.

I still wish he wouldnt have destroyed those other tapes. That is crazy.

It pretty clear in Adam's post that they will get in trouble.