ESPN MacMahon: Prediction of Pro Bowl Cowboys

[theogt]

The argument being, I suppose, that catches and yards are all that matters?

One could just as easily look at the fact that Witten is tied for what, 20th? 21st in touchdowns in the NFC? There are only 16 teams in the conference.

There are a lot of stats. Some prefer Jason, some don't.

If a tight end isn't a red zone weapon, which Witten has not been, he hasn't produced like he should, at least as far as I'm concerned. Considering that the Cowboys are one of the least efficient teams in the NFL converting yards into points and red zone drives into points, doesn't the tight end take some of the responsibility? Just a little? If not Witten, then who?

Who's going to take responsibility for the Cowboys being the 8th WORST in the NFL at converting offensive yards into points? Who's going to take responsibility for awful short conversions? Aren't those places where a strong tight end is supposed to put you over the top? Sure, a lot of people are to blame, but a tight end with one TD who hasn't stood out in blocking, on a team that is inefficient in short yardage situations and red zone situations is a tough sell for me.

Again, love the guy to death, have the jersey (yada yada), but I am really impressed by what I've seen of Gonzalez and have been really impressed by everything in Shiancoe's game when I see him. Davis has a beef, but I've not seen him as successful in the blocking game when I did see him (I have to admit that I have only watched 4 or 5 Niners games, much less than Vikings and, obviously, Cowboys).

Witten's just not a Pro Bowler in my book this year. Agree to disagree, I guess. Or just quote things, don't put forth a counter-argument and put in the "eye roll" emoticon. Whatever works for you.

Jason Witten has never been a redzone threat. Are you new to watching the Cowboys? He does not catch a lot of touchdowns. He made it in 2006 when he had only one touchdown. If he leads the NFC in two of the three major receiving categories, you can't legitimately argue that he's not in the top 2 in the NFC.

But if you want more statistical categories, he's #1 in yards after catch. He's #2 in first downs. He's #2 in percentage of passes caught (among TEs with at least 50 targets). He's #2 in times targeted.

To be honest, you have to be either ignorant or blind to say hes not a top 2 TE in the NFC this year.

 

[Shinywalrus]

Jason Witten has never been a redzone threat. Are you new to watching the Cowboys? He does not catch a lot of touchdowns. He made it in 2006 when he had only one touchdown. If he leads the NFC in two of the three major receiving categories, you can't legitimately argue that he's not in the top 2 in the NFC.

But if you want more statistical categories, he's #1 in yards after catch. He's #2 in first downs. He's #2 in percentage of passes caught (among TEs with at least 50 targets). He's #2 in times targeted.

To be honest, you have to be either ignorant or blind to say hes not a top 2 TE in the NFC this year.

Very polite of you.

Nonetheless, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you do watch football, in which case you would recall that he made it in 2006 because NFC tight end play was horrendous, not because his lack of touchdown receptions was irrelevant. He is absolutely a red zone target, and tends to be toward the top in touchdowns in addition to his usually profligate yardage and reception totals.

Look at the 2006 NFC tight ends he had to compete with - Gonzalez was still in the AFC with Gates and Winslow, and Cooley, LJ Smith and Shockey were far less effective blockers and had horrible hands, dropping an absurd number of passes.

The Cowboys have a lower red zone conversion percentage than each of Atlanta, San Francisco and Minnesota.

The Cowboys are second to last in the NFL in 4th down conversion rates. They are mediocre in third down conversions despite a strong offense, worse than both Minnesota and Atlanta, but better than San Francisco, which has a below average offense otherwise.

A tight end must help his team in these situations, and Witten typically does. Even last year, Dallas was in the top 10 in Red Zone scoring %, third down conversions and fourth down conversions!

I'm not going to accuse you of ignorance, because I think Witten is a very high quality tight end that deserves consideration, and because it's a childish argumentation technique. I just think there are enough reasons in favor of other performers at the position in the NFC this year.

 

[Temo]

The LTs should be Jon Stinchcomb, Jason Peters, and Jordan Gross.

Kosier and Gurode should be the only two Dallas lineman who get in.

Witten is the best overall TE in the NFC this season.

 

[JJB500]

Romo will get in the Pro Bowl. Favre won´t show up in that game, he never does.

Romo won't either, he will have to play the week after.

 

[burmafrd]

I think someone here has no actual idea what makes a good NFL TE, let alone a pro bowl TE. Virtually every former TE I have ever heard consider Witten one of the very best. So have coaches. And his stats and work and results this year are right in line with his previous years.

 

[reddyuta]

mcbriar has been awesome this year,we really missed him after the arizona game last year.

 

[adbutcher]

Flo doesnt deserve it, however Jenkins does, as does Romo, but it's going to be near impossible to beat out Brees, Favre, and Rodgers.

Who is better?

 

[adbutcher]

I find it amusing that those who say Flo doesn't deserve it don't offer up a single LT candidate.

Flo has cut down on his false start penalties big time this year, and he's still a dominant force at LT who gives up very few sacks while seldom receiving any help against anyone rushing from his side.

Home town fans don't seem to appreciate Flo as much as I think they should. We're lucky to have him.

 

[perrykemp]

Green Bay's OL, IMO, has been much worse then ours. To me, the numbers Rogers has posted are astounding, given the OL he's working with. JMO

That's my thought too -- someone indicated that Rogers shouldn't be in the Pro-Bowl because of all the sacks he has taken --- I look at it differently -- I think how the heck can Roger's stats be some fricking amazing AND have taken 50 sacks?

If you told me that at the beginning of the season Rogers was going to lead the league in sacks this year at over 50+, I'd would have predicted a horrible statistical season.... in many ways his season doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Shinywalrus]

I think someone here has no actual idea what makes a good NFL TE, let alone a pro bowl TE. Virtually every former TE I have ever heard consider Witten one of the very best. So have coaches. And his stats and work and results this year are right in line with his previous years.

I'd forgotten how frustrating this forum can be. Show some subtlety here, people.

Saying that Witten isn't deserving of a Pro Bowl nod in 2009 has absolutely nothing to do with the general opinion of Witten's skills and long term performance as an NFL tight end. Even the best players in history at their positions weren't always the top performers in every year of their careers.

I'm pretty confident Witten will be a first ballot HOF type, and when all is said and done, part of the discussion with Winslow, Newsome, Ditka and Gonzalez for "best ever." But I guess you can't admit to an opinion that he's in an off year on these forums. My goodness, people.

 

[RS12]

LT Flozell Adams: The five-time Pro Bowler has flaws -- starting with his penchant for penalties -- but try to find three healthy tackles in the NFC who are better. He’s been a key part of the league’s third-ranked offense. However, the perception of Adams as a dirty player might hurt him in the voting.

:laugh2:

 

[Shinywalrus]

The LTs should be Jon Stinchcomb, Jason Peters, and Jordan Gross.

Kosier and Gurode should be the only two Dallas lineman who get in.

Witten is the best overall TE in the NFC this season.

You may want to look at your left tackles again. You've selected a right tackle and the leading allower of sacks, hurries and QB hits in the NFL this season.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

You may want to look at your left tackles again. You've selected a right tackle and the leading allower of sacks, hurries and QB hits in the NFL this season.

Yet you mentioned Bushrod for the saints when he has not been all that great the last few games? Not ragging on you here, I don't agree with your Witten assessment but was kind of shocked you would consider Bushrod as someone you would mention as a possible pro-bowler to name to oust Flo.

 

[onajet_36]

:starspini think tony romo will go to the probowl cause he is better than arron rodgers.
:laugh1:

 

[dbair1967]

I'd probably go with Witten, Romo, Austin and Adams on offense. I dont think Adams has had a great season, but compared to alot of the NFC LT's he deserves it.

Defense Ware, Ratliff and possibly Jenkins

McBriar deserves strong consideration as the punter.

Whats interesting in the QB debate is the probowl voting starts soon, so it favors success early in the season. The problem is most QB's (and especially Romo this yr) are judged by how they play later in the season, and nobody in the NFC is playing better than Romo this month, I guess one could make a good argument for Rodgers but other than him, nobody. Romo outplayed Brees badly in their head to head matchup. If not or the defelcted pick, he'd probably be working on a string of 5 straight games of 100+ QB ratings.

 

[perrykemp]

i think tony romo will go to the probowl cause he is better than arron rodgers.

Which part of his game leads you to say that? Wins? TDs, Ints? Yards, QB Rating, Yards Rushing? Rushing TDs?

As much as I'd like it to be true -- I don't see it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I'd probably go with Witten, Romo, Austin and Adams on offense. I dont think Adams has had a great season, but compared to alot of the NFC LT's he deserves it.

Defense Ware, Ratliff and possibly Jenkins

McBriar deserves strong consideration as the punter.

Whats interesting in the QB debate is the probowl voting starts soon, so it favors success early in the season. The problem is most QB's (and especially Romo this yr) are judged by how they play later in the season, and nobody in the NFC is playing better than Romo this month, I guess one could make a good argument for Rodgers but other than him, nobody. Romo outplayed Brees badly in their head to head matchup. If not or the defelcted pick, he'd probably be working on a string of 5 straight games of 100+ QB ratings.

I agree with your obsevations David. The problem, as I see it is, Brees and Favre are going to get voted in no matter what. I think that both have had better overall years but besides that, name recognition alone is going to get them voted in. The third guy has to get named and that's a tough call.

 

[quaigs]

Where is all this "Rogers is have a better year then Romo" coming from? Their stats are almost identical.

 

[dbair1967]

I agree with your obsevations David. The problem, as I see it is, Brees and Favre are going to get voted in no matter what. I think that both have had better overall years but besides that, name recognition alone is going to get them voted in. The third guy has to get named and that's a tough call.

I think Brees and Rodgers absolutely deserve to go. I know Favre will probably go over Romo, but IMO he deosnt deserve it. Other than the GB games, I think he has pretty much got fat off an easy schedule and his play has dropped off significantly the last 4 weeks, where Romo's has vastly improved. The other reason is I believe if you take Brees, Rodgers or Romo off their teams or had them miss significant time, their teams records would suffer dramatically, and I dont think anyone can make that case for Favre in regards to Minnesota. Especially since its public knowledge now that his own head coach wanted to bench him on several occassions for Tavaris Jackson.

 

[JBond]

Hate to say it, but I'm not so sure Jason Witten's play has been among the top two in the NFC this season. Love the guy to death, but he's been a downright liability in both pass and run blocking on a number of occasions, seems to have lost a good deal of the instinct for necessary first down yardage

Maybe i just have missed the plays your talking about but i have seen witten do some amazing blocking this season both in pass protection an running and i certainly wouldnt call him a liability IMO

Funny how people can watch the same games and come to completely different conclusions. Witten is a liability in blocking and has trouble getting first downs? Where does this stuff come from?