ESPN: Skins add Gray to All-Star Staff

[silverbear]

OR....another way to say it....better players, make better coaches

That was always the Jimmy Johnson philosophy, you win with playmakers...

 

[silverbear]

Losing Takeo Spikes had a huge impact on their production last season.

From 2nd in overall defense, to 29th, in one year, all because of one player...

WOW, somebody oughta give Spikes a HUGE raise, I never realized he was so completely dominant...

Gray is an excellent coach. But continue believing this if it helps you sleep better at night.

I'll believe what my common sense tells me, thank you very much... particularly if all you have to offer in rebuttal is to suggest that the Bills dropped from 2nd to 29th, all because of an injury to one player...

If he was so "excellent", you'd think the Bills would want to keep him around, particularly since they have built their rep in recent years on defensive play...

But hey, you're welcome to go on believing what you want to believe, too... I always enjoy supercilious sarcasm... it's SO much more entertaining than actual, factual arguments...

 

[Alexander]

From 2nd in overall defense, to 29th, in one year, all because of one player...

WOW, somebody oughta give Spikes a HUGE raise, I never realized he was so completely dominant...



I'll believe what my common sense tells me, thank you very much... particularly if all you have to offer in rebuttal is to suggest that the Bills dropped from 2nd to 29th, all because of an injury to one player...

If he was so "excellent", you'd think the Bills would want to keep him around, particularly since they have built their rep in recent years on defensive play...

But hey, you're welcome to go on believing what you want to believe, too... I always enjoy supercilious sarcasm... it's SO much more entertaining than actual, factual arguments...

Buffalo had a complete change in management and coaching staff. Gray was caught in the mix and would not be retained as he was part of the old regime and with a defensive minded coach like Dick Jauron on board, there is the idea to get him his staff. And it is pretty clear that Buffalo is not exactly being run by the sharpest tools in the shed these days given their recent gaffes.

As for your assertion that Gray is just a bad coach, so are you stating with a straight face that you find it strange how a defense can fall in ranking due to injuries or personnel upheavel?

Our tumble from a top rated defense in 2003 to the dregs of the league in 2004 should be able to tell you that. But I am sure you were probably one of the first in line to claim that injuries to Woodson were one of the chief reasons why.

Tell me then, were you as down on Zimmer as you apparently are on Gray after a similar downswing?

All you are doing now is smugly dismissing what is a very good signing by Washington because it makes you feel better. That's called whistling as you walk past the graveyard.

 

[SkinsHokieFan]

All of this over a DB coach? Only can a Dan Snyder move spawn this much attention

 

[joseephuss]

It looks as if Gibbs is preparing Washington for his retirement. This may be his last season as head coach and it is still early enough that he could actually walk away now.

 

[kingwhicker]

It looks as if Gibbs is preparing Washington for his retirement. This may be his last season as head coach and it is still early enough that he could actually walk away now.

Yep, so they'll have like ten guys fighting for it. :laugh2:

 

[Bach]

Yep, so they'll have like ten guys fighting for it. :laugh2:

Yeah, they probably all have a clause in their contract like Williams where they get a nice bonus if they aren't named the next HC.

 

[silverbear]

As for your assertion that Gray is just a bad coach, so are you stating with a straight face that you find it strange how a defense can fall in ranking due to injuries or personnel upheavel?

First, I never said that Gray was a "bad coach", in fact I defy you to produce a single quote from me to that effect... it's really quite contemptible, the way you keep on twisting my arguments into something they're not... I'll argue with anybody, all I ask in return is that you play it straight... if you're incapable of doing so, then the future consequences will be on your head, because I've had just about enough of your crap...

What I DID say was that there are legitimate reasons to wonder if he's as good as y'all are making him out to be... I believe it was you who said he was "excellent"... I'm merely suggesting that he benefitted greatly from working for Gregg Williams, who is indisputably a defensive whiz, while the latter was head coach of the Bills...

Second, as I've already noted, there was no significant "personnel upheaval" on the defense this past season... that is, if you believe the Bills' official website... and you only pointed to ONE major injury for that defense last year, although that was admittedly a biggie...

But no, there is no excuse-- none whatsoever-- for a team falling from 2nd in total defense to 29th, just because of the loss of one player... aside from Spikes, as best I can tell Sam Adams missed 2 games, Angelo Crowell missed 1, and Terrence Newman also missed 1... the rest of the defensive starters all played all 16 games, and so did most of the backups...

Our tumble from a top rated defense in 2003 to the dregs of the league in 2004 should be able to tell you that. But I am sure you were probably one of the first in line to claim that injuries to Woodson were one of the chief reasons why.

Do quit twisting the facts, son, it makes you look bad... the Boys fell from the top of the league to MIDDLE OF THE PACK (i.e., 16th in the league) in total defense from 2003 to 2004... that's a significantly lesser drop than what the Bills experienced last year (2nd to 29th)...

Again, do you think you score legitimate debating points by making stuff up as you go along, or are you just assuming that I'm too stupid to either know the truth of the matter, or where to look it up...

But just for the record, I knew when the Boys ranked 1st in the league that they were doing it with smoke and mirrors, and that they had gotten real lucky in 2003 in that they didn't have to play too many good offenses... I knew they did it without much in the way of a pass rush (32 sacks), and without forcing many turnovers... they also caught a break or two in having top quarterbacks miss the game against the Cowboys...

Tell me then, were you as down on Zimmer as you apparently are on Gray after a similar downswing?

Yeah, I was pissed at him... I certainly wouldn't have been impressed if any other team had hired him following that dropoff... happily, I feel a lot better about him after the way he adapted to the new 3-4 defense last season... I found that impressive...

All you are doing now is smugly dismissing what is a very good signing by Washington because it makes you feel better.

That's twice now you've made assumptions regarding my motives... I guess you like making yourself look stupid... I'll just ask, ever so politely (in spite of your ongoing rudeness) why, if I'm just some witless Skins hater who needs to make himself feel better by arrogantly dismissing every move they make, I didn't have any criticisms of the Saunders signing??

And then I'll ask you, again a good deal more politely than you seem to be able to manage, to refute the FACTS that I laid out when expressing my reservations... you clearly THINK he's a great coach, in fact you called him "excellent"... but you have offered nothing to rebut the criticisms I offered...

 

[dfense]

Since the Bills defense fell from #3 to #29 this season, I wish him the best!

 

[AsthmaField]

OMG... SilverBear's on a tear...

For what it's worth, I think that Gray has yet to prove if he's a good coach or if he's simply ridden on other people's success.

It very well might be a good move by the skins... but it might not be as well. At this point all we know is that the guy, when associated with some real defensive guru's, has done a respectible job. At worst, I think he'll do fine, because the bottom line is, he's re-aligned himself with Williams once again.

Overkill? Maybe. That defense is going to be one of the best in the NFL... I don't think Gray is going to make it significantly better than Williams was already going to do. The only way that defense gets better is with personnel, because it was already "coached up" all the way, IMO. So, unless they get some real talent at DE and a couple more secondary guys... I expect to see about the same that we saw this past season... and no Skins fan should complain about that.

Looking at it in those terms... this move is a non-issue because the defense won't be significantly better with him and without him better DE's and secondary would improve the defense anyway.

So as far as I'm concerned, meh... it just doesn't matter.

If someone wants to argue if he's a good coach or not, that's fine... but it's just logistics at this point, because the skins will have a good defense and he's going to look like a good coach again come next season. Will he be a good coach? Who knows...

 

[SkinRamon]

Since the Bills defense fell from #3 to #29 this season, I wish him the best!

Yep and that had nothing to do with the offseason loss of Pat Williams, the season-ending injury to defensive leader Takeo Spikes, the off-and-on injuries to Sam Adams' knees, and the fact that the Buffalo offense specialized in turnovers and punting --- and thereby wearing out an already vulnerable defense.

Gray's a real no-talent. Well I'm glad the loser is just coaching the DB's!

 

[AsthmaField]

Yep and that had nothing to do with the offseason loss of Pat Williams, the season-ending injury to defensive leader Takeo Spikes, the off-and-on injuries to Sam Adams' knees, and the fact that the Buffalo offense specialized in turnovers and punting --- and thereby wearing out an already vulnerable defense.

Gray's a real no-talent. Well I'm glad the loser is just coaching the DB's!

Like I said... Skins fans need to look at it in terms of what will Gray do for their defense. The Skins defense was so well coached last year, that I think they got every bit of production out of the talent they had there. In other words, I don't think any more coaching makes that defense any better... you need players to improve from what you already are.

Given a pass rushing DE and another couple of secondary guys, Williams would've made that defense even better... will Gray make it any better than Williams already would have? I'm not sure, but I'd tend to say no because Williams already gets so much from those guys.

So the Skins defense would be well coached and get the most out of it's talent anyway... Gray will just be another cog in that. Will he make the skins defense worse? No, probably not. Will he make it any better coached? No, probably not, because Williams is already working miracles with those guys. Will he make them better coached? I tend to doubt that because you'd have to assume that Williams was letting someone not do their job with the DB's... and I find it hard to believe that he allowed that last year.

So, it's a non-issue really, at least in terms of what it'll do for the skins defense.

Now, did he do a good job with the buffalo D? Did losing Spikes and the other's hurt that much or was it simply being another year removed from Williams that hurt so much? That's the easiest question yet and the answer is another question: Who gives a S***?

 

[HTownCowboysFan]

The all star rosters didn't work so I guess Synder is trying the coaches this time.

This is exactly what I thought. Really, trying to be unbiased here, I just don't see how this works coaching-wise.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

New ENgland won with a great coaching staff, and very good players. I still think that Washington is behind on players, but you really can't argue that Snyder hasn't finally started to figure out overpaying for talent doesn't work.

Washington has a very nice staff in place, with one of the top defensive minds, and one of the best offensive minds in football running those sides of the ball. If Dallas had made these moves, I would be very extatic....let's just see if ego's dont collide.

We should be better next year...and as much as it sucks to see Washington enjoy success, at lesat the games will mean something.

 

[silverbear]

OMG... SilverBear's on a tear...

There's two things I dislike intensely, one of them is somebody who twists facts to make their argument, the other is somebody who tries to tell me what I'm thinking...

I guess I should have more respect for Alexander, it's hard to find a good mind reader these days...

It really is funny, I say that the Al Saunders hiring was a good one, and nobody says a word to me... but when I say that I'm not SURE that signing Jerry Gray was such a good move, guys like Alexander come out of the woodwork, accusing me of having this powerful, mindless anti-Skins bias...

I guess ol' Alexander's a closet Skins fan, who just hates hearing anything derogatory said about his precious team... he probably has a few thousand posts over on extremeskins, LOL...

 

[silverbear]

New ENgland won with a great coaching staff, and very good players. I still think that Washington is behind on players, but you really can't argue that Snyder hasn't finally started to figure out overpaying for talent doesn't work.

Oh, I most certainly CAN argue that... you seem to think that Danny Boy's recent financial restraint in the pursuit of top dollar free agents is a reflection of him suddenly developing a clue how to make this thing work, but I'm pretty much convinced his restraint was forced on him by his earlier abuse of the salary cap...

If Danny Boy wasn't cap-strapped last year and again in this coming offseason, he probably would have been out there trying to buy the best talent again...

 

[leotisbrown]

First, I never said that Gray was a "bad coach", in fact I defy you to produce a single quote from me to that effect...

I reads comprehensioun on that and you done said it by implie if nothing elses.

And Stop talking so bad mouth ats me before I get riled on up.

 

[tenken627]

I don't think you guys are getting the situation.

Jerry Gray is probably not going to make that much of an impact on the success of the defense next year. He is just a defensive back coach.

He is filling the spot that was vacated when DeWayne Walker left to become the defensive coordinator of UCLA yesterday.

Gregg Williams wanted Jerry Gray to come to Washington with him last year, but Buffalo denied that wish.

This move just reunites Jerry Gray and Gregg Williams who are good friends, so why not just give him a small assistant coach spot for a year? It's most likely a stopgap move for Jerry Gray, before he can go somewhere else and become a defensive coordinator again.

I think you guys are looking too much into this. It will not effect chemistry, because on defense, EVERYONE knows to defer to Gregg Williams, and Jerry Gray already has in the past.

 

[Taylor_Can_Hit21]

Hey silverbear...this is 89HasYour# lol...good to see you dissecting peoples post again.

 

[Rockytop6]

Another brilliant mind to coach an already outstanding defense!
Skins coaching staff is set for the long-term!
HTTR!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2311954

The Washington Commanders have continued their assemblage of an all-star, and pricey staff of assistants, hiring Jerry Gray to coach the secondary.

Most recently the defensive coordinator of the Buffalo Bills, a position that he held for five seasons (2001-05), Gray becomes the latest high profile aide in owner Dan Snyder's galaxy of staffers.

The Commanders recently hired former Kansas City offensive coordinator Al Saunders in the same capacity, signing him to a three-year contract worth about $6 million. Before that, the Commanders took highly regarded defensive coordinator Gregg Williams out of the head coach market by signing him to a three-year extension that could be worth as much as $2.6 million annually, and which will pay him a $1 million bonus if he is not named head coach when Joe Gibbs retires.

Contract details of Gray's deal were not available.

Hiring Gray reunites him with Williams and Washington will be the third different team with which the two have worked together. Gray was the Tennessee secondary coach when Williams was the Titans' defensive coordinator. When Williams went to Buffalo as head coach in 2001, he brought Gray along.

Gray, 43, interviewed earlier this month for the head coach vacancy with the Houston Texans and also met with several teams regarding defensive coordinator positions. It was fairly well known that, if Gray did not land any of those positions, he probably would join the Commanders' staff.

A former NFL defensive back, Gray played nine seasons with the Los Angeles Rams (1985-91), Houston Oilers (1992) and Tampa Bay Bucs (1993). He began his coaching career at SMU in 1995 and served two seasons on the staff there before being hired by the Titans in 1997.

While I hate the Skins, I admire the way they are putting together an outstanding coaching staff. Hopefully we will do enough in the off season and in the draft to overcome some of the good moves they have made.