ESPN: Who is the best defensive player in NFL history?

[Doomsday101]

My All-Time OL has Rayfield Wright, Larry Allen, Dermonti Dawson, John Hannah and Anthony Munoz on it.

I think highly of each one of those guys. Had he been able to control his action and life better I think Eric Williams would have been one of the top OT to ever play the game but the car accident and some other off the field issue really hurt him.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Ditka was a tight end.

LT made playing with the Giants on Tecmo Bowl unfair. The only player that could possible out run him was Bo Jackson.

Now thats how you point out the important facts of football!

 

[THUMPER]

Too many young pups here that never saw the greats like Deacon Jones, Merlin Olsen, Bob Lilly; or Dick Butkus in his prime. I was lucky to see some of them, but I was not lucky enough to be old enough to see them in their primes. I have talked to some older people over the years who were lucky enough to see them and Taylor; they readily admit he was great, but none of them think he had any kind of a clear edge on those greats.

I was fortunate enough to have seen those guys from the beginning of their careers, particularly Olsen and Jones as well as Lilly. I grew up in L.A. and my family were all Rams fans so I got to see a lot of "The Fearsome Foursome" of the 60s. I became a Cowboys fan in 1963 because of Bob Lilly and watched him every chance I got. They were the greatest players of their era and were incredibly dominant at their positions.

As for Butkus, he was the most dominant player I have ever seen but he was at his peak for a relatively short time before knee injuries cut his career short. He could rush the passer, was a monster against the run, and could cover guys very well. He picked off 22 passes in his 9 seasons, compared with 9 INTs for LT in 13 years.

LT was the best pure pass-rusher ever IMO (Deacon Jones is 1b) but he was far from a complete player. Butkus excelled in every area of the position. As great as LT was I would rank Butkus ahead of him. They didn't keep stats on sacks or tackles behind the line but Butkus was a master at stopping RBs behind the LOS as well as getting after the QB when he wasn't in coverage shutting down the RB or TE.

All four of the guys you brought up (Lilly, Olsen, Jones, & Butkus) were on the NFL All-Time team compiled by the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the NFL's 75th anniversary (see link below). They were the best ever at their positions.

http://www.nfl.com/history/legends/75th-anniversary

In this case, ignore my sig, thank you for bringing up such pleasant memories.

 

[Doomsday101]

Sorry I have to push for my guy and one of the main reason I became a Cowboys fan.

Bob Lilly: As the number one draft pick in 1961 (and the Cowboys first ever draft pick), Bob went on to be All-Pro 7 times, and played in 11 Pro Bowl games.

Lilly began his career as a defensive end in 1961 but midway though his third season Cowboys coach Tom Landry moved him to defensive tackle. As a tackle, Lilly was a first-team All-NFL choice every year from 1964 through 1969, then again in 1971, and 1972. The only years he missed first-team honors was his final two seasons in the league and in 1970 when he was a second-team choice. In 1972 he and the rest of the Cowboys won the Super Bowl against Miami, 24-3.

Lily's greatest assets were his furious pass-rushing skills and his ability to slice plays open with his agility and instincts. Lilly's agility and quickness helped him score four defensive touchdowns in his career. His first was returning an interception 17 yards in 1964 while the other three came on fumble recoveries.

Lilly was extremely durable during his career, making 196 consecutive regular-season games. The only game he would miss in his career was the 1973 championship game against Minnesota due to a leg injury.

Affectionately known as "Mr. Cowboy," his name was the first inscribed in the "Ring of Honor" above Texas Stadium.

Bob Lilly was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1980. The Sporting News named him a member of the All-Century NFL Team and "the greatest defensive tackle in NFL history".

In 1999, he was ranked number 10 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players, the highest-ranking defensive lineman and the highest-ranking Cowboy.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Oh it's simple for me, I can't choose between the two....

1. Deacon Jones

2. Reggie White (R.I.P.)

Bob Lilly was a great player as well and should get some mention along with Joe Greene..

 

[THUMPER]

Sorry I have to push for my guy and one of the main reason I became a Cowboys fan.

Bob Lilly: As the number one draft pick in 1961 (and the Cowboys first ever draft pick), Bob went on to be All-Pro 7 times, and played in 11 Pro Bowl games.

Lilly began his career as a defensive end in 1961 but midway though his third season Cowboys coach Tom Landry moved him to defensive tackle. As a tackle, Lilly was a first-team All-NFL choice every year from 1964 through 1969, then again in 1971, and 1972. The only years he missed first-team honors was his final two seasons in the league and in 1970 when he was a second-team choice. In 1972 he and the rest of the Cowboys won the Super Bowl against Miami, 24-3.

Lily's greatest assets were his furious pass-rushing skills and his ability to slice plays open with his agility and instincts. Lilly's agility and quickness helped him score four defensive touchdowns in his career. His first was returning an interception 17 yards in 1964 while the other three came on fumble recoveries.

Lilly was extremely durable during his career, making 196 consecutive regular-season games. The only game he would miss in his career was the 1973 championship game against Minnesota due to a leg injury.

Affectionately known as "Mr. Cowboy," his name was the first inscribed in the "Ring of Honor" above Texas Stadium.

Bob Lilly was inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1980. The Sporting News named him a member of the All-Century NFL Team and "the greatest defensive tackle in NFL history".

In 1999, he was ranked number 10 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players, the highest-ranking defensive lineman and the highest-ranking Cowboy.

You get no argument from me! :starspin

 

[YosemiteSam]

As for Butkus, he was the most dominant player I have ever seen but he was at his peak for a relatively short time before knee injuries cut his career short. He could rush the passer, was a monster against the run, and could cover guys very well. He picked off 22 passes in his 9 seasons, compared with 9 INTs for LT in 13 years.

If LT hadn't played on the Giants (3-4) he would have been a DE. Playing OLB relegated him to fall back in coverage depending on the play called. Mind you, he wasn't bad in coverage at all. He was however the most dominating and feared (and notorious!) pass rusher in NFL history. He probably caused more INTs that probably any single player in NFL history too!

 

[Twyst]

You guys must be to young to have watched LT.

I watched LT and while he was most dominant player ever when he played against the competition back then, the reason I went with ray lewis is because I think the level of talent is constantly rising in the NFL and if LT played in todays era he wouldnt have been quite as dominant. He would still be an AMAZING player, but I dont think he would have dominated the game like he did in his era. I was taking into account how much bigger faster and stronger offensive lineman are now than they were 20 years ago. Does that make any sense?


And yes Im too young to remember butkus :lol:



Mike singletary was another good pick whoever made that one, always loved that guy

 

[YosemiteSam]

Sorry I have to push for my guy and one of the main reason I became a Cowboys fan.

Bob Lilly: As the number one draft pick in 1961 (and the Cowboys first ever draft pick), Bob went on to be All-Pro 7 times, and played in 11 Pro Bowl games.

I love Bob Lilly, but I have to play devils advocate.

Not only was LT dominating, he was unrelenting even when most players wouldn't have even been on the field. (like Emmitt with the separated shoulder)

Lawrence Taylor, an All-America at North Carolina, was the first-round draft pick of the New York Giants and the second player selected overall in the 1981 NFL Draft. The 6-3, 237-pound linebacker set the tone for his pro career with an outstanding rookie season during which he recorded a career-high 133 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 8 passes defensed, two forced fumbles, a fumble recovery and an interception.

A dominant force on defense, Taylor was named first-team All-Pro in each of his first nine seasons. His ability to dominate a game with his attack style changed the outside linebacker position from a read-and-react posture to an aggressive mode.

An intense player, he had the speed to run past offensive linemen and the strength to out-muscle them. Starting in Taylor’s first season, the Giants began a 10-season streak in which they made the playoffs six times and won two Super Bowls.

Although Taylor’s accomplishments are many, he recorded his finest statistical season in 1986 when he was named the NFL’s MVP, becoming the first defensive player to do so since 1971. That season, Taylor recorded a career high 20.5 sacks, 105 total tackles, five passes defensed, and two forced fumbles.


In a 1988 game against the New Orleans Saints, suffering with a torn pectoral muscle in his shoulder, Taylor demonstrated his remarkable strength and determination. Wearing a harness to keep his shoulder in place, he managed to record seven tackles, three sacks, and two forced fumbles. The Giants won 13-12.

Taylor recorded 132.5 quarterback sacks (not including 9.5 sacks he recorded in 1981, since the sack didn’t become an official NFL statistic until 1982), 1,088 tackles, 33 forced fumbles, 10 fumble recoveries, and nine interceptions during his career. He was selected to play in 10 Pro Bowls and in 1994 was named to the NFL’s 75th Anniversary All-Time Team.

 

[Doomsday101]

I love Bob Lilly, but I have to play devils advocate.

Not only was LT dominating, he was unrelenting even when most players wouldn't have even been on the field. (like Emmitt with the separated shoulder)

I agree for his time LT was the most dominate player. Lilly during his time was as well.

 

[Cowboy Bill Watts]

I love Bob Lilly, but I have to play devils advocate.

Not only was LT dominating, he was unrelenting even when most players wouldn't have even been on the field. (like Emmitt with the separated shoulder)

the same could be said for lilly. any single thing you can say about LT you can say about Lilly. he did it all. he sacked the QB, he stopped the run, he ran folks down from behind.

...and unlike most players from other generations, he could play today in his prime and still be effective imho...

 

[YosemiteSam]

I agree for his time LT was the most dominate player. Lilly during his time was as well.

Yeah, I agree. Determining the best has to be clear cut or it's subjective and based on conjecture.

Now, Jerry Rice is clear cut. He has everything to prove he was the absolute best. 13 Pro-bowls, MVPs, Offensive POYs, NFL All-Time team, All-Decade team of the 80s and 90s, 4 Superbowls, 32 more TDs than any player in history (207 for Rice to Emmitt's 175 in second place)

Jerry Rice's NFL Records:

1. Receptions (1,549)
2. Receiving yards (22,895)
3. Touchdown receptions (197)
4. All-purpose yards (23,540)
5. Touchdowns (207)
6. Receiving yards gained in a single season (1,848)
7. Touchdown receptions in a single season (22) --done in only 12 games.
8. Seasons with at least 50 receptions (17)
9. Seasons with at least 1,000 receiving yards (14)
10. Games with at least 100 receiving yards (76)
11. Consecutive games with at least one reception (274)
12. Consecutive games with at least one touchdown reception (13)
13. He is currently the only player in the post NFL/AFL merger era to gain a single-season major offensive title with an output double that of the number two man. His 22 touchdown catches in 1987 were twice that of Mike Quick's 11.
    

 

[AmishCowboy]

LT, No doubt about it. Has any safety impacted a game like Ronnie Lott?.

 

[Zaxor]

Yeah, I agree. Determining the best has to be clear cut or it's subjective and based on conjecture.

Now, Jerry Rice is clear cut. He has everything to prove he was the absolute best. 13 Pro-bowls, MVPs, Offensive POYs, NFL All-Time team, All-Decade team of the 80s and 90s, 4 Superbowls, 32 more TDs than any player in history (207 for Rice to Emmitt's 175 in second place)

Jerry Rice's NFL Records:

1. Receptions (1,549)
2. Receiving yards (22,895)
3. Touchdown receptions (197)
4. All-purpose yards (23,540)
5. Touchdowns (207)
6. Receiving yards gained in a single season (1,848)
7. Touchdown receptions in a single season (22) --done in only 12 games.
8. Seasons with at least 50 receptions (17)
9. Seasons with at least 1,000 receiving yards (14)
10. Games with at least 100 receiving yards (76)
11. Consecutive games with at least one reception (274)
12. Consecutive games with at least one touchdown reception (13)
13. He is currently the only player in the post NFL/AFL merger era to gain a single-season major offensive title with an output double that of the number two man. His 22 touchdown catches in 1987 were twice that of Mike Quick's 11.

Devil's advocate here...yeah but....

what if Jerry Rice didn't play with 2 HOF QB's but with Quincy Carter or Ryan Leaf his entire career?

and this just in... taken from the 49er hater society

Myth: Rice is the "Best Ever"

Fact: We believe Rice is overrated. Almost half his catches are off of cheesy 2 yard patterns and much of his success is attributed to the 49er scheme, not individual talent. Yet, instead of challenging Rice with man coverage, teams continue to implement the same defensive philosophy that allows Rice to slip under the zone, catch a 2 yard pass, and compile his numbers that are the end-all, be-all for most people to call him "the best ever."

 

[slick325]

The original LT in a landslide! Unbelieveable player!

 

[Aikbach]

LT, No doubt about it. Has any safety impacted a game like Ronnie Lott?.

Mel Renfro played a little safety and corner in his day, he actually did the reverse of what most do, started off at safety and moved to corner.

 

[YosemiteSam]

LT, No doubt about it. Has any safety impacted a game like Ronnie Lott?.

Ronnie Lott spent a lot of time playing CB, but he is one of the all-time great safeties. Of course, you can't forget the likes of Larry Wilson. Ed Reed is pretty damn good. Rodney Harrison had something like 81 INTs over his career I beleive.

Who was that safety that used to play for the 49ers that used to knock people out with his shoulder. I can't remember his name for the life of me...

 

[Aikbach]

Ronnie Lott spent a lot of time playing CB, but he is one of the all-time great safeties. Of course, you can't forget the likes of Larry Wilson. Ed Reed is pretty damn good. Rodney Harrison had something like 81 INTs over his career I beleive.

Who was that safety that used to play for the 49ers that used to knock people out with his shoulder. I can't remember his name for the life of me...

You mentioned Ed reed and not Darren Woodson or Cliff Harris?
The Niner you are thinking of is Tim McDonald probably.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Devil's advocate here...yeah but....

what if Jerry Rice didn't play with 2 HOF QB's but with Quincy Carter or Ryan Leaf his entire career?

His first two years with Oakland 2001, 2002 (without Montana and Young) He still had over 2,300 yards, 16TDs, and 175 catches at 39 years of age. He turned 39 in 2001. (born October 13, 1962) If you can produce with the top receivers in the league at 39, thats saying something about how great an athelete you truly are. It doesn't matter how your QB is, and his wasn't a HoF QB in Oakland.

Myth: Rice is the "Best Ever"

Fact: We believe Rice is overrated. Almost half his catches are off of cheesy 2 yard patterns and much of his success is attributed to the 49er scheme, not individual talent. Yet, instead of challenging Rice with man coverage, teams continue to implement the same defensive philosophy that allows Rice to slip under the zone, catch a 2 yard pass, and compile his numbers that are the end-all, be-all for most people to call him "the best ever."

This is utterly stupid and dumb. All the NFL teams had two decades to *figure out* Jerry Rice and failed. This isn't an excuss for what Rice did, it's a haters excuse for their teams failure.

 

[randy932]

I was fortunate enough to have seen those guys from the beginning of their careers, particularly Olsen and Jones as well as Lilly. I grew up in L.A. and my family were all Rams fans so I got to see a lot of "The Fearsome Foursome" of the 60s. I became a Cowboys fan in 1963 because of Bob Lilly and watched him every chance I got. They were the greatest players of their era and were incredibly dominant at their positions.

As for Butkus, he was the most dominant player I have ever seen but he was at his peak for a relatively short time before knee injuries cut his career short. He could rush the passer, was a monster against the run, and could cover guys very well. He picked off 22 passes in his 9 seasons, compared with 9 INTs for LT in 13 years.

LT was the best pure pass-rusher ever IMO (Deacon Jones is 1b) but he was far from a complete player. Butkus excelled in every area of the position. As great as LT was I would rank Butkus ahead of him. They didn't keep stats on sacks or tackles behind the line but Butkus was a master at stopping RBs behind the LOS as well as getting after the QB when he wasn't in coverage shutting down the RB or TE.

All four of the guys you brought up (Lilly, Olsen, Jones, & Butkus) were on the NFL All-Time team compiled by the Pro Football Hall of Fame for the NFL's 75th anniversary (see link below). They were the best ever at their positions.

http://www.nfl.com/history/legends/75th-anniversary

In this case, ignore my sig, thank you for bringing up such pleasant memories.

Hooray!! Someone who knows what he is talking about. Lt doesn't hold a candle to Butkus. No one does.