FA Pass Rusher

[rangers71]

So the biggest problem addressing this team is pass rush, and people's solution is to draft a big fat tub of goo who can't rush the passer and stick him in the middle to replace Ratliff? To go along with all the other big fat slow stiffs and tubs of goo on this defensive front 7 who do everything but rush the passer?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

 

[rangers71]

Anyone want to come up with a nosetackle who has more sacks in the last 3 years than Ratliff? Anyone?

Don't worry about facts.

 

[visionary]

So the biggest problem addressing this team is pass rush, and people's solution is to draft a big fat tub of goo who can't rush the passer and stick him in the middle to replace Ratliff? To go along with all the other big fat slow stiffs and tubs of goo on this defensive front 7 who do everything but rush the passer?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

IR, you know better than that

agan, it is not just about the "pass rush" it is about "pressuring the QB and making him uncomfortable in the pocket"

the fat tub of goo as you put it will collapse the pocket so the QB cant step up (and we all know pressure up the middle is the hardest to cope with)

Rat will be rushing from DE

we will draft an OLB (Rd 1) opposite ware so we have 2 OLBs putting pressure from the outside

it all, however, starts up the middle

we have done it the non-traditional way and it is clearly not working

there is a reason why all other successful 3-4 defenses use this method

it works!!

i know, crazy idea

 

[RoyTheHammer]

This.

Complain about Ratliff all you want, but rather than play him in another position that he has never played at the pro level, I'd prefer to focus on improving the DEs who get a pass because they are "good at the run." They are also good at getting brick walled by a single OL on passing plays.

You mean the DE's that start for us? One of which had 2.5 more sacks then Rat and the other who had only 1 less sack and just as many tackles?

Put Rat at DE then.. you'd get just as good play against the run, and a much better pass rush.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Seriously, I think people are actively looking for ways to have as few pass rushers on the field as possible. We'll draft a big immobile fat tub of goo and put him in the middle between Marcus Spears and Kenyon Coleman rotating at DE, and then we'll resign Anthony Spencer and his avg of 4 sacks a season attacking from the outside (this isn't hyperbole ... he literally averages 4 sacks a season), and then we'll give DeMarcus Ware an ambien and horse tranquilizer cocktail before every game.

Makes sense to me. Let's do it. Anyway we can bring Igor Olashasnky back?

 

[RS12]

Please show me where I said anything that makes me a homer?

How bout starting with giving this front office and coaching staff the benefit of the doubt? They deserve this why? Is it the bang up job they've done?

 

[Vintage]

So the biggest problem addressing this team is pass rush, and people's solution is to draft a big fat tub of goo who can't rush the passer and stick him in the middle to replace Ratliff? To go along with all the other big fat slow stiffs and tubs of goo on this defensive front 7 who do everything but rush the passer?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

I don't understand the fascination with adding more goo to the front line either. We need pass rushers. And more athleticism on the front 7, in general.

Good news is... we should get that in Carter next year. Between Ware, Carter, and Lee... that's an athletic LB group... (and depending on whether or not Spencer is retained).

But we need more athletic on the DL too. I'm tired of watching Philly and NY's pass rushing ability with its front line... then watching our stiffs get swallowed up like cake via a fat kid.

We need guys who can get quick penetration (that's what she said).

 

[visionary]

Anyone want to come up with a nosetackle who has more sacks in the last 3 years than Ratliff? Anyone?

distraction at its finest

it is not the job of the NT in a 3-4 to sack the QB
it is his job to take on doublec teams
occupy defenders
allow the DEs and LBs to flow to the QB and the ball

that is why i would rather have the NT from NE or Pitt than Rat

he will have less sacks but the defense will be better

i know this is a difficult concept to grasp

 

[InmanRoshi]

I don't understand the fascination with adding more goo to the front line either. We need pass rushers. And more athleticism on the front 7, in general.

Good news is... we should get that in Carter next year. Between Ware, Carter, and Lee... that's an athletic LB group... (and depending on whether or not Spencer is retained).

But we need more athletic on the DL too. I'm tired of watching Philly and NY's pass rushing ability with its front line... then watching our stiffs get swallowed up like cake via a fat kid.

We need guys who can get quick penetration (that's what she said).

I think people are literally trying to think of creative way we can come up with a front 7 in which none of them can run faster than a 4.9 or rack up more than 4 sacks a season.

 

[rangers71]

How bout starting with giving this front office and coaching staff the benefit of the doubt? They deserve this why? Is it the bang up job they've done?

Yeah go back and show me where I said anything positive about this front office? I said yesterday that Jerry needs to get the hell out of the way and has needed to for years. He is a joke of a gm. I also said that Jason needs an offensive coordinator to help out. Again not blind homerism. Just because I said that Ratliff who is a pro bowl tackle by the way needs to stay there makes me a idiot blind homer. This coaching staff and the previous two agreed that Ware is a great outside linebacker who routinely is near the league leaders in sacks right? Well hell obviously that hasn't worked because we have 1 playoff win in forever so I guess they were all wrong. Maybe we should move him to corner, Ratliff to middle linebacker and put Romo at safety. Who knows it might work because hell nothing else has in the last 15 seasons.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

IR, you know better than that

agan, it is not just about the "pass rush" it is about "pressuring the QB and making him uncomfortable in the pocket"

the fat tub of goo as you put it will collapse the pocket so the QB cant step up (and we all know pressure up the middle is the hardest to cope with)

Rat will be rushing from DE

we will draft an OLB (Rd 1) opposite ware so we have 2 OLBs putting pressure from the outside

it all, however, starts up the middle

we have done it the non-traditional way and it is clearly not working

there is a reason why all other successful 3-4 defenses use this method

it works!!

i know, crazy idea

:laugh2:

The funniest part is they say Rat has been good against the run and "fine" in the pass rush.. so why not put him at a position where he's better fit to stand up against the run and will only face double teams part of the time instead of every play. Instead of 2 sacks a year, you could be getting 6-7 a year from Rat at the DE position and be better able to collapse the pocket and help our pass rushers get to the QB with a bigger body on the inside.

 

[InmanRoshi]

distraction at its finest

it is not the job of the NT in a 3-4 to sack the QB
it is his job to take on doublec teams
occupy defenders
allow the DEs and LBs to flow to the QB and the ball

that is why i would rather have the NT from NE or Pitt than Rat

he will have less sacks but the defense will be better

i know this is a difficult concept to grasp

You have a very elementary grasp of what a NT does and what Rob Ryan asks his to do. The Patriots were playing mostly 4 man sets this year, and Rob Ryan asks his interior lineman to play as much 3 tech as 0 tech.

 

[Vintage]

I think people are literally trying to think of creative way we can come up with a front 7 in which none of them can run faster than a 4.9 or rack up more than 4 sacks a season.

And isn't Ryan supposed to be some sort of guru?

I think giving him a tool such as another athletic pass rusher might be more useful to his creative looks/odd formations than a tub of goo.

I think... another pass rusher... might actually pose threats when defenses continually slide protection to protect against Ware. Another quick twitch, athletic pass rusher would be hard to run away from when its coming from you on both sides. A tub of goo... on occasion, can provide some pressure. But being goo, they are usually slow... and something a QB can avoid easily than another Ware. Or a JPP like player.

 

[InmanRoshi]

:laugh2:

The funniest part is they say Rat has been good against the run and "fine" in the pass rush.. so why not put him at a position where he's better fit to stand up against the run and will only face double teams part of the time instead of every play. Instead of 2 sacks a year, you could be getting 6-7 a year from Rat at the DE position and be better able to collapse the pocket and help our pass rushers get to the QB with a bigger body on the inside.

No, the funniest part is the part where you want to take our quickest interior pass rusher who's best asset is an exceptional first step, and move him further away from the quarterback. have him play a 5 tech, and give him a worse angle to the QB and completely neutralize his first step.

 

[rangers71]

No, the funniest part is the part where you want to take our quickest interior pass rusher who's best asset is an exceptional first step, and move him further away from the quarterback. have him play a 5 tech, and give him a worse angle to the QB and completely neutralize his first step.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I don't understand the fascination with adding more goo to the front line either. We need pass rushers. And more athleticism on the front 7, in general.

Good news is... we should get that in Carter next year. Between Ware, Carter, and Lee... that's an athletic LB group... (and depending on whether or not Spencer is retained).

But we need more athletic on the DL too. I'm tired of watching Philly and NY's pass rushing ability with its front line... then watching our stiffs get swallowed up like cake via a fat kid.

We need guys who can get quick penetration (that's what she said).

You seem to want a 43 defense.. i agree, Ratliff would be great as a DT in the 43. Unfortunately, that isn't the defense we play, and on the DL in the 34, you need bigger, stronger guys on the DL.

There's a reason most successful 34 defenses in the NFL have DE's around 290-310 lbs and NT's around 320-350.

Rat would be a great DE in this defense. He'd help upgrade both our run and pass D, if we ever got a true NT in here.

 

[Vintage]

:laugh2:

The funniest part is they say Rat has been good against the run and "fine" in the pass rush.. so why not put him at a position where he's better fit to stand up against the run and will only face double teams part of the time instead of every play. Instead of 2 sacks a year, you could be getting 6-7 a year from Rat at the DE position and be better able to collapse the pocket and help our pass rushers get to the QB with a bigger body on the inside.

Ratliff is our best pressure player from the DL. Why move him to a position further from the QB? The idea is to get him getting quick pressure up the middle so the QB cannot step up in the pocket when Ware collapses it.

That... and three HIGHLY regarded 3-4 masterminds... Parcells, Wade, and Ryan... view Ratliff as a NT.

But a cult like following on internet message boards think Ratliff is better suited to DE.

While coordinators can be wrong (and are). And internet message boarders can be right (and are)... its more likely Parcells/Wade/Ryan know more about where Ratliff is better suited than message board posters.

 

[rangers71]

Ratliff is our best pressure player from the DL. Why move him to a position further from the QB? The idea is to get him getting quick pressure up the middle so the QB cannot step up in the pocket when Ware collapses it.

That... and three HIGHLY regarded 3-4 masterminds... Parcells, Wade, and Ryan... view Ratliff as a NT.

But a cult like following on internet message boards think Ratliff is better suited to DE.

While coordinators can be wrong (and are). And internet message boarders can be right (and are)... its more likely Parcells/Wade/Ryan know more about where Ratliff is better suited than message board posters.

Thank you for echoing what I have been trying to say.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

No, the funniest part is the part where you want to take our quickest interior pass rusher who's best asset is an exceptional first step, and move him further away from the quarterback. have him play a 5 tech, and give him a worse angle to the QB and completely neutralize his first step.

Sigh.. again, did you see us collapsing the pocket at all this year Rosh?

Rat at DE would face less double teams, and would be more effective in rushing the passer. You really think if we moved him to DE he'd end up with less sacks than the 3.5 last year and 2 this year?

Is that what you really believe?

 

[Vintage]

You seem to want a 43 defense.. i agree, Ratliff would be great as a DT in the 43. Unfortunately, that isn't the defense we play, and on the DL in the 34, you need bigger, stronger guys on the DL.

There's a reason most successful 34 defenses in the NFL have DE's around 290-310 lbs and NT's around 320-350.

Rat would be a great DE in this defense. He'd help upgrade both our run and pass D, if we ever got a true NT in here.

No. I don't seem to want a 4-3 defense. I don't care what type of defense we run if its effective. I think our 3-4 can be effective if we address some issues. Lee was a step towards that. Carter, I think, is another step towards that. Ware is a solution. Ditto with Ratliff.

But we are missing some pieces.

We don't need to have 3 300 lbs stiffs on the DL to run a 3-4. Not with the way Ryan runs his schemes. Not with the way Wade ran his, either. They want more of the 1 gap concept.... and that is more effective with more athletic players than tubs of goo.