Factual look at this offense and at Dak

[jterrell]

Stats have a cool way of not caring about your feelings.

They can obviously be used to form arguments that go well beyond what they actually state but that's an issue with the presenter, not the stat.

As of this BYE week we've been told by at least half of cowboyszone Dak is simply a bad QB.

Stats suggest there are lots of myth's about this offense:

1st. DAL faces more 8 in box than anyone.


Ummm, nope. They actually don't. Less than 25% of the time is Zeke running into 8+ man boxes.

2nd. DAL has a dominant OL.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rboard-pass-block-win-rate-pass-rush-win-rate

Ummm, nope. Only Zack Martin rates top 10 at his position and as a group they are outside the top 10 in pass block win% as well as the Football Outsiders overall OL score.
This is a middle of the pack OL with lots of upside. CWill is improving and Fredbeard should be back next year. But they are the highest paid group in football history and this is not a dominant OL right now. Ol Coach should be on notice though it isn't his fault Travis has to miss the season or that we have a rookie LG.
Tyron and La'el are on him IMHO.

3rd: Dak is awful and we are losing because of him.


Dak's last 4 games performance has been graded in the top 10 at QB by passer rating yet team is only 2-2.

4th: WR is NOT a problem


DAL WRs are last in the NFL in yards of separation. That's an issue. Swain and Beasley are solid, everyone else falls off a cliff.
And while there's not stat for this the entire non-Beasley WR corps is from the TWill school of catching a football with your chest.
Amari Cooper is a possible answer and you can see why they BOLDLY traded for him. This team has done seemingly zero things bold since Stephen took over.

So Dak is the best?
Absolutely not.
He's a prototypical young QB. He's not getting to 3rd or 4th reads regularly and his pre-snap stuff is worth questioning. He is not good at all when pressure is near his feet. His footwork falls apart and his passing accuracy suffer big-time.
So what then he sucks right?
No. These are common issues especially with younger QBs.
You give him a chance to win if you are better along the OL and at WR.

Worth noting:
Tony Romo was really good.


But Dak actually rates even higher in TD/INT ratio.
He'd come in at 2.52 which would be good for 4th on this list all-time....

It is going to be interesting to review this ta the end of the year.
I wonder how many people will ignore better OL and WR play and simply credit Dak if his numbers improve?

 

[Nightman]

Thank you

So many haters here...... real positive news and stats is always welcome

The O doesn't need to be Top5 with this D..... just control the clock, limit TOs and wear them down

ACooper makes us a better team and that is all that matters

 

[RoyalCowboy]

Post of the year! I also agree with Nightman. Too many Dak haters. He has and always will improve his gameplay. Bad games happen but man, our OL has been below average to average this year with a less than stellar WR corps. Cooper will help directly and indirectly with the entire offense.

 

[birdwells1]

Stats have a cool way of not caring about your feelings.

They can obviously be used to form arguments that go well beyond what they actually state but that's an issue with the presenter, not the stat.

As of this BYE week we've been told by at least half of cowboyszone Dak is simply a bad QB.

Stats suggest there are lots of myth's about this offense:

1st. DAL faces more 8 in box than anyone.


Ummm, nope. They actually don't. Less than 25% of the time is Zeke running into 8+ man boxes.

2nd. DAL has a dominant OL.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rboard-pass-block-win-rate-pass-rush-win-rate

Ummm, nope. Only Zack Martin rates top 10 at his position and as a group they are outside the top 10 in pass block win% as well as the Football Outsiders overall OL score.
This is a middle of the pack OL with lots of upside. CWill is improving and Fredbeard should be back next year. But they are the highest paid group in football history and this is not a dominant OL right now. Ol Coach should be on notice though it isn't his fault Travis has to miss the season or that we have a rookie LG.
Tyron and La'el are on him IMHO.

3rd: Dak is awful and we are losing because of him.


Dak's last 4 games performance has been graded in the top 10 at QB by passer rating yet team is only 2-2.

4th: WR is NOT a problem


DAL WRs are last in the NFL in yards of separation. That's an issue. Swain and Beasley are solid, everyone else falls off a cliff.
And while there's not stat for this the entire non-Beasley WR corps is from the TWill school of catching a football with your chest.
Amari Cooper is a possible answer and you can see why they BOLDLY traded for him. This team has done seemingly zero things bold since Stephen took over.

So Dak is the best?
Absolutely not.
He's a prototypical young QB. He's not getting to 3rd or 4th reads regularly and his pre-snap stuff is worth questioning. He is not good at all when pressure is near his feet. His footwork falls apart and his passing accuracy suffer big-time.
So what then he sucks right?
No. These are common issues especially with younger QBs.
You give him a chance to win if you are better along the OL and at WR.

Worth noting:
Tony Romo was really good.


But Dak actually rates even higher in TD/INT ratio.
He'd come in at 2.52 which would be good for 4th on this list all-time....

It is going to be interesting to review this ta the end of the year.
I wonder how many people will ignore better OL and WR play and simply credit Dak if his numbers improve?

Serious question, does the 8 man in the box account for every time the safety is used in the run game? Suppose there's 3 wides and the safety is used as run support, then that would be 7 men in the box and would have the same effect as 8 men in the box but may not be captured in that stat.

 

[links18]

The 8 man in the box stat is only as accurate as whoever is keeping track of when their are 8 men in the box and the criteria for when their are actually 8 men in the box can be debatable. In any event, Dak is not passing the eyeball test right now. Its about perceptions, not feelings.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Serious question, does the 8 man in the box account for every time the safety is used in the run game? Suppose there's 3 wides and the safety is used as run support, then that would be 7 men in the box and would have the same effect as 8 men in the box but may not be captured in that stat.

A safety being 10 yards off but coming down to support the run is not "in the box". In the box is d line and lbs

 

[Kage]

Using stats is unfair.

 

[Hennessy_King]

The 8 man in the box stat is only as accurate as whoever is keeping track of when their are 8 men in the box and the criteria for when their are actually 8 men in the box can be debatable. In any event, Dak is not passing the eyeball test right now. Its about perceptions, not feelings.

You mean the o line wiping out 3 3rd down conversions last week and putting us in 3rd and 15s with one of the worst wr groups in the league. That's the reality. The people on this team getting paid aren't carrying their weight consistently.

 

[Ken]

A safety being 10 yards off but coming down to support the run is not "in the box". In the box is d line and lbs

That is actually incorrect.

I usually define it as all of the defenders 5-6 yards from the line of scrimmage and the width of a couple of yards beyond the offensive tackles. That would be the box.

That can include DL, LBs, S and CBs.

 

[jterrell]

Serious question, does the 8 man in the box account for every time the safety is used in the run game? Suppose there's 3 wides and the safety is used as run support, then that would be 7 men in the box and would have the same effect as 8 men in the box but may not be captured in that stat.

8 men is 8 men for purposes of the study.

DAL uses as much 2 TE stuff as anyone so that really isn't a reason they'd see less 8 men boxes.

Reality is DAL OL has been getting whipped 5 on 5 and even 5 on 4.
Teams haven't really had to stack the box to stop Zeke.

They can press the WRs outside and those players then become run defenders as well.
DAL had 1 WR who wins in tight man coverage; Beasley.
Cooper gives them a second.
DAL does win outside well down (Gallup, Austin and Thompson) the field but those are really slow developing plays.

IMHO the biggest issue has been Hurns. I do not think e presents any threat whatsoever. He is a WR4 or WR5 imho as an outside back up.

Another factor is running the football simply doesn't equate to winning.
Not like passing efficiency does.
Defenses can let Zeke get 120 and still hold the offense down if they focus in hitting Dak as much as possible.

That'd be my game plan as a DC.

 

[Hennessy_King]

That is actually incorrect.

I usually define it as all of the defenders 5-6 yards from the line of scrimmage and the width of a couple of yards beyond the offensive tackles. That would be the box.

That can include DL, LBs, S and CBs.

Ken i think you misread and i didn't do a good job explaining. If a safety lines up with the lb then he is in the box. doesn't matter the position just matters where they line up. have to be close to los like lbs and dline are

 

[CATCH17]

Stats have a cool way of not caring about your feelings.

They can obviously be used to form arguments that go well beyond what they actually state but that's an issue with the presenter, not the stat.

As of this BYE week we've been told by at least half of cowboyszone Dak is simply a bad QB.

Stats suggest there are lots of myth's about this offense:

1st. DAL faces more 8 in box than anyone.


Ummm, nope. They actually don't. Less than 25% of the time is Zeke running into 8+ man boxes.

2nd. DAL has a dominant OL.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rboard-pass-block-win-rate-pass-rush-win-rate

Ummm, nope. Only Zack Martin rates top 10 at his position and as a group they are outside the top 10 in pass block win% as well as the Football Outsiders overall OL score.
This is a middle of the pack OL with lots of upside. CWill is improving and Fredbeard should be back next year. But they are the highest paid group in football history and this is not a dominant OL right now. Ol Coach should be on notice though it isn't his fault Travis has to miss the season or that we have a rookie LG.
Tyron and La'el are on him IMHO.

3rd: Dak is awful and we are losing because of him.


Dak's last 4 games performance has been graded in the top 10 at QB by passer rating yet team is only 2-2.

4th: WR is NOT a problem


DAL WRs are last in the NFL in yards of separation. That's an issue. Swain and Beasley are solid, everyone else falls off a cliff.
And while there's not stat for this the entire non-Beasley WR corps is from the TWill school of catching a football with your chest.
Amari Cooper is a possible answer and you can see why they BOLDLY traded for him. This team has done seemingly zero things bold since Stephen took over.

So Dak is the best?
Absolutely not.
He's a prototypical young QB. He's not getting to 3rd or 4th reads regularly and his pre-snap stuff is worth questioning. He is not good at all when pressure is near his feet. His footwork falls apart and his passing accuracy suffer big-time.
So what then he sucks right?
No. These are common issues especially with younger QBs.
You give him a chance to win if you are better along the OL and at WR.

Worth noting:
Tony Romo was really good.


But Dak actually rates even higher in TD/INT ratio.
He'd come in at 2.52 which would be good for 4th on this list all-time....

It is going to be interesting to review this ta the end of the year.
I wonder how many people will ignore better OL and WR play and simply credit Dak if his numbers improve?

Could you list the 1st and 2nd down numbers and remove the last 2 minutes of the half and compare it to the rest of the league when it comes to Zekes 8 in the box?

 

[Ken]

Serious question, does the 8 man in the box account for every time the safety is used in the run game? Suppose there's 3 wides and the safety is used as run support, then that would be 7 men in the box and would have the same effect as 8 men in the box but may not be captured in that stat.

No it literally only accounts for 8 or more in the box at the snap and that is mostly predicated by offensive formation.

a Loaded box is what you are referring to and I am interested in where we rank in that.

 

[Hennessy_King]

Could you list the 1st and 2nd down numbers and remove the last 2 minutes of the half and compare it to the rest of the league when it comes to Zekes 8 in the box?

go for it. you got google too fam

 

[Ken]

Ken i think you misread and i didn't do a good job explaining. If a safety lines up with the lb then he is in the box. doesn't matter the position just matters where they line up. have to be close to los like lbs and dline are

Ok, agreed!

 

[CATCH17]

The 8 man in the box stat is only as accurate as whoever is keeping track of when their are 8 men in the box and the criteria for when their are actually 8 men in the box can be debatable. In any event, Dak is not passing the eyeball test right now. Its about perceptions, not feelings.

And those of us paying attention to the all 22 have seen a lot of missed WR's this year.

I understand you can do that with any QB but when your lucky to pass for 200 yards and the pass game in general stinks it's frustrating to see a play that could be made and a QB that lacks anticipation to throw the football to guys out of breaks.

 

[jterrell]

The 8 man in the box stat is only as accurate as whoever is keeping track of when their are 8 men in the box and the criteria for when their are actually 8 men in the box can be debatable. In any event, Dak is not passing the eyeball test right now. Its about perceptions, not feelings.

the analytics department at espn is outstanding and they use a consistent definition for everyone in the league.

they aren't out to crush your personal narrative just give you raw data.

 

[Hennessy_King]

And those of us paying attention to the all 22 have seen a lot of missed WR's this year.

I understand you can do that with any QB but when your lucky to pass for 200 yards and the pass game in general stinks it's frustrating to see a play that could be made and a QB that lacks anticipation to throw the football to guys out of breaks.

Lol aaron rodgers misses people all the time. There was a big thing about it a few weeks ago about his missed reads. Every qb misses a guy. It's overblown with Dak. Omg imagine if we did it every single week with romo i'm sure there were a few. 3 missed wr's on 25-30 pass plays where he doesn't throw picks is ok with me.

 

[Hennessy_King]

the analytics department at espn is outstanding and they use a consistent definition for everyone in the league.

they aren't out to crush your personal narrative just give you raw data.

They can't handle it.

 

[CATCH17]

Lol aaron rodgers misses people all the time. There was a big thing about it a few weeks ago about his missed reads. Every qb misses a guy. It's overblown with Dak. Omg imagine if we did it every single week with romo i'm sure there were a few. 3 missed wr's on 25-30 pass plays where he doesn't throw picks is ok with me.

It's not overblown.. You know why? Because we aren't getting production in the pass game.

Aaron Rodgers is still producing.

Dak is just out there trying not to screw it up.

If Dak was sniffing 250-300 yards every week and a couple TD's it would be different.