Factual look at this offense and at Dak

[Philmonroe]

dude, if you think facts will impact idiots stuck on stupid, you're in lala land

they just like to be player haters - it's their nature - you're talking about the sort of people who'd throw water on a grease fire - they are fools, you can't help them

Stop it Gramps. I guess the defensive coordinators are player haters too since they don't give a dang about Dak passing ability either? They not doubling any WR outside maybe Beasley on certain down and distances. They don't think Dak can beat them consistently period but y'all keep coming with these stats to help Dak when the game tape shows you the truth.

 

[kskboys]

That's not how this offense was built. We spent all our money and resources on the offensive line and a top tier RB. We trot out the worst TE and WR groups in the league every week with a $600,000 QB. It's pretty easy to see why our passing game is lacking. O line has been below average tied for 4th most in the league with 11 holding penalties this year. Wr's have the lowest average separation as a group in the league. It's way more than the QB. When's the last time dak threw a slant or curl where the wr took it to the house? Once last year with dez when he broke a tackle on some practice squad corner.

Nicely done.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

The 8 man in the box stat is only as accurate as whoever is keeping track of when their are 8 men in the box and the criteria for when their are actually 8 men in the box can be debatable. In any event, Dak is not passing the eyeball test right now. Its about perceptions, not feelings.

If it's the NextGen stat it accounts for every snap that's a run play in which 8 or more defenders at the snap.

 

[Number1]

Stop it Gramps. I guess the defensive coordinators are player haters too since they don't give a dang about Dak passing ability either? They not doubling any WR outside maybe Beasley on certain down and distances. They don't think Dak can beat them consistently period but y'all keep coming with these stats to help Dak when the game tape shows you the truth.

"Gramps" ... LOL

umm, you made my point, the box is not stacked nearly as much as you imagine (or pretend)

since you mentioned tape, and "truth" if you're remotely right ... how did this happen ?

 

[Hennessy_King]

Nicely done.

Thanks my world would be complete if you got oldschoolbum out of hiding to like my posts

 

[Philmonroe]

"Gramps" ... LOL

umm, you made my point, the box is not stacked nearly as much as you imagine (or pretend)

since you mentioned tape, and "truth" if you're remotely right ... how did this happen ?

2016? Hell outta here gramps its 2018 stop living in the past. Also Gramps why you out here making up stuff how often did I post that the box was stuffed since you claimed I did. Use my actual post not your made up narrative.

 

[BoysForLife]

2nd. DAL has a dominant OL.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rboard-pass-block-win-rate-pass-rush-win-rate

Ummm, nope. Only Zack Martin rates top 10 at his position and as a group they are outside the top 10 in pass block win% as well as the Football Outsiders overall OL score.
This is a middle of the pack OL with lots of upside. CWill is improving and Fredbeard should be back next year. But they are the highest paid group in football history and this is not a dominant OL right now. Ol Coach should be on notice though it isn't his fault Travis has to miss the season or that we have a rookie LG.
Tyron and La'el are on him IMHO.

The opening point (8 man boxes) was taken from Next Gen Stats. But, since this is a statistically oriented discussion, I'm wondering why you didn't delve into pass protection stats, in light of your comments about our O line being a big factor in the struggles. With that in mind, what do you make of this Next Gen stat:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Unless I'm misreading, Dak gets more time to Throw on average attempts than any other QB in the NFL except DeShaun Watson and Josh Allen.

So, we have the #2 rusher in the entire league and Dak's average time to Throw is one of only 3 guys in the NFL over 3 seconds.
And we're using the "poor O line" play as cover for Dak?

Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

 

[Number1]

2016? Hell outta here gramps its 2018 stop living in the past. Also Gramps why you out here making up stuff how often did I post that the box was stuffed since you claimed I did. Use my actual post not your made up narrative.

typical, I knew you wouldn't answer the question

 

[BoysForLife]

the analytics department at espn is outstanding and they use a consistent definition for everyone in the league.

they aren't out to crush your personal narrative just give you raw data.

Is the same true of Next Gen?

 

[Hennessy_King]

The opening point (8 man boxes) was taken from Next Gen Stats. But, since this is a statistically oriented discussion, I'm wondering why you didn't delve into pass protection stats, in light of your comments about our O line being a big factor in the struggles. With that in mind, what do you make of this Next Gen stat:

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

Unless I'm misreading, Dak gets more time to Throw on average attempts than any other QB in the NFL except DeShaun Watson and Josh Allen.

So, we have the #2 rusher in the entire league and Dak's average time to Throw is one of only 3 guys in the NFL over 3 seconds.
And we're using the "poor O line" play as cover for Dak?

Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

its been proven that qbs that scramble and buy more time are going to have a longer average time to throw. This would have more significance if we had a statue like eli playing QB for us.

 

[BoysForLife]

its been proven that qbs that scramble and buy more time are going to have a longer average time to throw.

And yet, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes, Jamies Winston, Marcus Mariota, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Tyrod Taylor all rank worse than Dak in average time to throw.

Either your statement isn't as "proven" as you'd like to think, or all of those guys I just noted have worse O lines than Dak is playing behind. Either way, it doesn't fit your narrative very well.

 

[Hennessy_King]

And yet, Ben Roethlisberger, Russell Wilson, Patrick Mahomes, Jamies Winston, Marcus Mariota, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Tyrod Taylor all rank worse than Dak in average time to throw.

Either your statement isn't as "proven" as you'd like to think, or all of those guys I just noted have worse O lines than Dak is playing behind. Either way, it doesn't fit your narrative very well.

It's pretty close. Like 1/10th a second less. Mahomes, rodgers, wilson, and tyrod. Brees and brady who are elite are almost a half second less and don't scramble as much.

 

[Cannibal_Cowboy]

Stats have a cool way of not caring about your feelings.

They can obviously be used to form arguments that go well beyond what they actually state but that's an issue with the presenter, not the stat.

As of this BYE week we've been told by at least half of cowboyszone Dak is simply a bad QB.

Stats suggest there are lots of myth's about this offense:

1st. DAL faces more 8 in box than anyone.


Ummm, nope. They actually don't. Less than 25% of the time is Zeke running into 8+ man boxes.

2nd. DAL has a dominant OL.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...rboard-pass-block-win-rate-pass-rush-win-rate

Ummm, nope. Only Zack Martin rates top 10 at his position and as a group they are outside the top 10 in pass block win% as well as the Football Outsiders overall OL score.
This is a middle of the pack OL with lots of upside. CWill is improving and Fredbeard should be back next year. But they are the highest paid group in football history and this is not a dominant OL right now. Ol Coach should be on notice though it isn't his fault Travis has to miss the season or that we have a rookie LG.
Tyron and La'el are on him IMHO.

3rd: Dak is awful and we are losing because of him.


Dak's last 4 games performance has been graded in the top 10 at QB by passer rating yet team is only 2-2.

4th: WR is NOT a problem


DAL WRs are last in the NFL in yards of separation. That's an issue. Swain and Beasley are solid, everyone else falls off a cliff.
And while there's not stat for this the entire non-Beasley WR corps is from the TWill school of catching a football with your chest.
Amari Cooper is a possible answer and you can see why they BOLDLY traded for him. This team has done seemingly zero things bold since Stephen took over.

So Dak is the best?
Absolutely not.
He's a prototypical young QB. He's not getting to 3rd or 4th reads regularly and his pre-snap stuff is worth questioning. He is not good at all when pressure is near his feet. His footwork falls apart and his passing accuracy suffer big-time.
So what then he sucks right?
No. These are common issues especially with younger QBs.
You give him a chance to win if you are better along the OL and at WR.

Worth noting:
Tony Romo was really good.


But Dak actually rates even higher in TD/INT ratio.
He'd come in at 2.52 which would be good for 4th on this list all-time....

It is going to be interesting to review this ta the end of the year.
I wonder how many people will ignore better OL and WR play and simply credit Dak if his numbers improve?

Here's a stat for ya : 3 - 4. That's win - loss record. The defense is ranked #7 overall, so it would be asinine to blame them for a losing record. So spin it any way you want to. This offense is putrid, and it all starts with the general. As usual just excuses...

 

[Philmonroe]

typical, I knew you wouldn't answer the question

Typical? Hell outta here gramps I'm talking about 2018 of course I'm not answering a 2016 question. You want me to do so get your Delorean and go back to the 2016 season and ask that question. Otherwise get with the current times gramps.

 

[BoysForLife]

It's pretty close. Like 1/10th a second less. Mahomes, rodgers, wilson, and tyrod. Brees and brady who are elite are almost a half second less and don't scramble as much.

Don't need to scramble when you make the proper reads and get the ball out on time.

 

[BoysForLife]

Here's a stat for ya : 3 - 4. That's win - loss record. The defense is ranked #7 overall, so it would be asinine to blame them for a losing record. So spin it any way you want to. This offense is putrid, and it all starts with the general. As usual just excuses...

#2 scoring defense. #2 rusher in the league.
Losing record. Searching for a word to summarize that, and I think your use of putrid pretty much covers that.

 

[birdwells1]

Over 40% of the time DAL has 1 TE and either 1FB or a 2nd TE.
Swain plays 90% of the snaps
Jarwin 28%
Rico 10%
Schultz 5%
Olawale 9%

They are not a heavy spread team compared to most anyone else in football.
They rank top 5 in most 2 TE sets.

So what are they doing the other 50-60 percent of the time? Again I'm not trying to be confrontational just trying to get the facts because what I think I'm seeing may not be true.

 

[birdwells1]

birdwell1,

you keep throwing the below out there

"Dak Prescott:

In games when pressured on 40% or more of dropbacks
from clean pocket
116 of 166 924 yd 4 td 7 int 74.0 (29th)
when pressured
45 of 91 602 yd 1 td 5 int 51.6 (25th)"

that's 5 TDs and 12 INTs ... when did this supposedly happen?

I got that from PercyHoward, this is from last season.

 

[visionary]

That's not how this offense was built. We spent all our money and resources on the offensive line and a top tier RB. We trot out the worst TE and WR groups in the league every week with a $600,000 QB. It's pretty easy to see why our passing game is lacking. O line has been below average tied for 4th most in the league with 11 holding penalties this year. Wr's have the lowest average separation as a group in the league. It's way more than the QB. When's the last time dak threw a slant or curl where the wr took it to the house? Once last year with dez when he broke a tackle on some practice squad corner.

So if we were paying Dak 16 million that would make him a better QB?
You are defending Dak as not the problem on one hand and denegrating him as a 600,000 QB on the other hand

Can't have it both ways

When your QB passes for 150 yes/game in this era of pass happy NFL rules, he is a BIG part of the problem

 

[Hennessy_King]

So if we were paying Dak 16 million that would make him a better QB?
You are defending Dak as not the problem on one hand and denegrating him as a 600,000 QB on the other hand

Can't have it both ways

When your QB passes for 150 yes/game in this era of pass happy NFL rules, he is a BIG part of the problem

He is part of the problem. But the problem is the area of the team you invested heavily in is seriously underperforming. And the area you did not invest in is performing how they should. If you pick a qb as a 4th round comp pick what do you expect? Did you actually expect this WR by committee thing to actually work. It was the dumbest thing i've ever heard so big shockface when we have the worst wr/te group in the league. I'm just happy he doesn't throw alot of INTs and is usually pretty careful with the ball. This team was not built as an air raid offense. You might not like it but this was a team built to run the ball, and win the t.o.p. game to help our defense.