Falcons add college-style option to running game

[peplaw06]

35 hours, 17 minutes.

I knew it was gettin close.

 

[Hostile]

Maybe it was because you kept talking about when the QB pitches and stuff.

In other words when he runs the "Option?"

:bang2:

 

[Hostile]

I knew it was gettin close.

I hate bye week, but I got something to look forward to Sunday at 6:00 am my time.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Ware's assignment will be Vick and someone outside of him would have the assignment of the other player. The Option works because players do forget their assignments. if they don't it stalls and then the pass offense in an Option usually is completely ineffective.

Are you willing to gamble on teams having players who forget their assignments for all 16 games?

I'm not.

I understand what you are saying. But, I'm sorry, if I'm Atlanta, I want Ware assigned to Vick. Sure, Ware might make the tackle, but likely the quick, agile 4.2 speed guy will win that matchup in the open field.

We aren't talking about guys like Matt Jones who runs a 4.3, but not as agile. Heck, Moss is straight line that fast too. But we are talking about those LBs catching someone with supreme quickness, agility, and 4.2 speed that is unmatched in the NFL.

I mean, sure the LBs will make the play alot, but there will be times where Vick will break their ankles for 6.

You are making the point of people having to miss assignments, I don't agree. There are people assigned to every position on the field. The middle LB is assigned to stop the running back, does he always make the play?? Nope.

Now, with this in mind, that same LB is assigned to probably the most dangerous weapon in football. I pick Vick.

 

[Hostile]

I understand what you are saying. But, I'm sorry, if I'm Atlanta, I want Ware assigned to Vick. Sure, Ware might make the tackle, but likely the quick, agile 4.2 speed guy will win that matchup in the open field.

We aren't talking about guys like Matt Jones who runs a 4.3, but not as agile. Heck, Moss is straight line that fast too. But we are talking about those LBs catching someone with supreme quickness, agility, and 4.2 speed that is unmatched in the NFL.

I mean, sure the LBs will make the play alot, but there will be times where Vick will break their ankles for 6.

You are making the point of people having to miss assignments, I don't agree. There are people assigned to every position on the field. The middle LB is assigned to stop the running back, does he always make the play?? Nope.

Now, with this in mind, that same LB is assigned to probably the most dangerous weapon in football. I pick Vick.

Yep. And times when they break his knees for 6.............................months.

I know it is an effective offense when run right. I'm not naive.

How long have you been watching the NFL? See many teams using it? Are you naive? Or can you admit that there's probably a real good reason why they don't use it.

How much are QBs worth? 5 plays a game until he's sidelined with a knee injury? That's a price you'll pay because he can run? Then again, it isn't your knees, so why not right? Me, I don't pay that price with my QB.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Yep. And times when they break his knees for 6.............................months.

I know it is an effective offense when run right. I'm not naive.

How long have you been watching the NFL? See many teams using it? Are you naive? Or can you admit that there's probably a real good reason why they don't use it.

How much are QBs worth? 5 plays a game until he's sidelined with a knee injury? That's a price you'll pay because he can run? Then again, it isn't your knees, so why not right? Me, I don't pay that price with my QB.

All my life. No, you don't see it in the NFL, but how many QBs come into the NFL with the type of agility and speed of a Vick, along with at least a mediocre arm.

There has been noone like Vick. Noone. So if you haven't seen it before, you just might see something different for a special player. Other teams don't use it cause they can't, they don't have a guy like Vick.

You worry with injury, but you have to worry about that on any play. Carson's knee got blown up standing in the pocket. They are trying to win by using all of Vick's gifts, and I see nothing wrong with that.

I guess he could blow his knee in a scramble, I guess Dunn could blow his knee, I guess any player can blow their knee. Being too safe and holding things back can cost you wins. Sure, you could lose someone to injury, and that would hurt, but 3 runs won't be a reason that Vick would blow his knee, I just don't buy that.

 

[Hostile]

All my life. No, you don't see it in the NFL, but how many QBs come into the NFL with the type of agility and speed of a Vick, along with at least a mediocre arm.

There has been noone like Vick. Noone. So if you haven't seen it before, you just might see something different for a special player. Other teams don't use it cause they can't, they don't have a guy like Vick.

You worry with injury, but you have to worry about that on any play. Carson's knee got blown up standing in the pocket. They are trying to win by using all of Vick's gifts, and I see nothing wrong with that.

I guess he could blow his knee in a scramble, I guess Dunn could blow his knee, I guess any player can blow their knee. Being too safe and holding things back can cost you wins. Sure, you could lose someone to injury, and that would hurt, but 3 runs won't be a reason that Vick would blow his knee, I just don't buy that.

So, in your estimation the only reason NFL teams don't use it is because there's never been a QB like Vick?

Sorry, I don't buy that. There's a reason Landry wanted Staubach in the pocket.

Yes, you can get injured on any play. I'm talking about the odds here. If you want to tell me the odds are equal, I will disagree.

It's like 2 dogs. One is a Dalmation and the other is a Rottweiler. While the dalmation could still bite you the odds are you should be more afraid of the Rottweiler. That's all I'm saying.

Plus I doubt very seriously they could successfully use it for the entire season. If they do I will eat my words. I've already said that.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

So, in your estimation the only reason NFL teams don't use it is because there's never been a QB like Vick?

Sorry, I don't buy that. There's a reason Landry wanted Staubach in the pocket.

Yes, you can get injured on any play. I'm talking about the odds here. If you want to tell me the odds are equal, I will disagree.

It's like 2 dogs. One is a Dalmation and the other is a Rottweiler. While the dalmation could still bite you the odds are you should be more afraid of the Rottweiler. That's all I'm saying.

Plus I doubt very seriously they could successfully use it for the entire season. If they do I will eat my words. I've already said that.

Ok, we are talking about maybe 5 plays. 3 of them, Vick will keep and run. 2 of them, Dunn gets handed to him. Bad things could happen, but you know what, good things could happen too.

Stabauch, I have only seen in highlights, really before my time. But I do know one thing, he didn't run under a 4.2 with the speed and agility of Vick.

This guy blows up angles in the open field on anyone. His legs are his best weapon, not his arm. You are telling me that you wouldn't use his legs 3 times a game??

I don't see how you can't buy that other teams haven't used it because they don't have a special talent like Vick. If I got any other QB, I wouldn't do it. With Vick, I would consider it cause he has a huge advantage.

 

[Hostile]

Ok, we are talking about maybe 5 plays. 3 of them, Vick will keep and run. 2 of them, Dunn gets handed to him. Bad things could happen, but you know what, good things could happen too.

Stabauch, I have only seen in highlights, really before my time. But I do know one thing, he didn't run under a 4.2 with the speed and agility of Vick.

This guy blows up angles in the open field on anyone. His legs are his best weapon, not his arm. You are telling me that you wouldn't use his legs 3 times a game??

I don't see how you can't buy that other teams haven't used it because they don't have a special talent like Vick. If I got any other QB, I wouldn't do it. With Vick, I would consider it cause he has a huge advantage.

I would use his legs the same way Staubach used his, Young used his, Elway used his, Cunningham used his, Tarkenton used his. When the play breaks down and he created on his own. There is no defense for that. They can prepare themselves mentally by saying be aware of it, but they can't scheme to stop it. Therein lies the difference.

 

[dbair1967]

I don't see how you can't buy that other teams haven't used it because they don't have a special talent like Vick. If I got any other QB, I wouldn't do it. With Vick, I would consider it cause he has a huge advantage.

yeah he's a huge advantage running, he's also a huge disadvantage passing, which is why the Falcons are doing what they are doing...he's probably the worst passing QB in the NFL

Vick probably wouldnt have even been drafted 10 years ago, and he definitely wouldnt have been drafted in the 80's...there were alot of QB's who had his running skills as a QB but nobody in the league cared for them because they couldnt pass

David

 

[koolaid]

Why is everyone so adamant that this will fail? It seems more like everyone wants it to fail rather than seeing it as a real possibility.

Who knows? QB's get hurt all the time. Most get hurt while standing in the pocket. Does that mean we shouldn't allow our QB's to stand in the pocket anymore???

I'm sure the Falcons will tailor this offense to their needs. Vick is a pro and a top tier athlete. This gives them the best chance of success.

We already know Vick is not going to a classic pocket passer. Moving him around and letting him run is the best opportunity for success.

good post, i agree

 

[jay cee]

In other words when he runs the "Option?"

:bang2:

which option?:laugh2:
The one the Falcons run, or the one they don't?

 

[Deep_Freeze]

I would use his legs the same way Staubach used his, Young used his, Elway used his, Cunningham used his, Tarkenton used his. When the play breaks down and he created on his own. There is no defense for that. They can prepare themselves mentally by saying be aware of it, but they can't scheme to stop it. Therein lies the difference.

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. Vick has better legs than all the guys you mentioned. ALL OF THEM. Vick has the best wheels in this league, no other QB has EVER been able to say that.

All the guys you mention, there were guys in the league alot faster and quicker than them playing WR, RB, or such. Sure, they were fast and elusive for the QB position, but not when you compared them to other positions on the field. The difference is, Vick's legs are more gifted than any position on the field.

The guys you mention don't even belong in the same sentence in terms of wheels. Some just don't realize what a game changer he is, dismiss him with old school football thoughts that are just plain old. Dog him if you want, his team will win ballgames. The problem I have is that if he does get hurt, all everyone will say is, "I told you so". Like noone wants the kid to succeed. That is just plain horrible.

yeah he's a huge advantage running, he's also a huge disadvantage passing, which is why the Falcons are doing what they are doing...he's probably the worst passing QB in the NFL

Vick probably wouldnt have even been drafted 10 years ago, and he definitely wouldnt have been drafted in the 80's...there were alot of QB's who had his running skills as a QB but nobody in the league cared for them because they couldnt pass

David

Dear god, why does this guy have so many haters. I know that you mean more than 10 years, cause Vick has been in the league for a while. If you date him back, he is that much more of a special package.

10 years ago, Deion was in the league and was as fast as Vick. But Vick is much more agile and quick than Deion ever was, and Deion is one of my favorites of all time. Plus, Deion was a CB, not a QB.

25 years ago, Vick would have dusted everyone in the league. 25 years ago, people, just like now, would have been closed minded about Vick. I will say it, prejudice would have not allowed him to even play QB unless he was gifted with the greatest arm in the world by god.

Let the boy play ball, and stop looking for him to fail.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

Why is everyone so adamant that this will fail? It seems more like everyone wants it to fail rather than seeing it as a real possibility.

Who knows? QB's get hurt all the time. Most get hurt while standing in the pocket. Does that mean we shouldn't allow our QB's to stand in the pocket anymore???

I'm sure the Falcons will tailor this offense to their needs. Vick is a pro and a top tier athlete. This gives them the best chance of success.

We already know Vick is not going to a classic pocket passer. Moving him around and letting him run is the best opportunity for success.

good post, i agree

Two people that understand the greatest show on turf is now in Atlanta. Who would've thought it, it is by running the ball.

I challenge anyone to just watch this kid run. Just watch, without homer glasses on. Don't hate him cause he isn't a Cowboy, be a fan of the game. Watch how players react when he is coming at them. You haven't ever seen a QB like him, he actually has great arm strength, the accuracy just isn't there yet.

Vick sells tickets. How can you not enjoy watching him play. I remember seeing him run right around a guy that had the angle on him, it was truely a freakish play. I mean the guy had the angle, yet Vick ran through where this guys angle was to met Vick, and then stopped on a dime, and cut the opposite direction. I haven't seen anyone do this, wish I had the highlight. The speed and agility was just unmatched, the guy never had a chance, and looked foolish for even chasing him.

 

[Hostile]

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. Vick has better legs than all the guys you mentioned. ALL OF THEM. Vick has the best wheels in this league, no other QB has EVER been able to say that.

No, I get what you're saying and I'm discounting it as a doesn't matter point. Or are you trying to tell me that anyone slower than Vick wouldn't be a good candidate? Because that's an awfully narrow view of somethign you're trying to defend. I mean think about what you're actually telling me. It won't work, except with this particular guy.

Sounds an awful lot like you agree with my point, except this one guy in all of History is the exception to this. Awfully convenient thinking.

All the guys you mention, there were guys in the league alot faster and quicker than them playing WR, RB, or such. Sure, they were fast and elusive for the QB position, but not when you compared them to other positions on the field. The difference is, Vick's legs are more gifted than any position on the field.

So, teams should go find Carl Lewis type track stars if they want this to work? Come on. Do you really expect me to buy that?

The guys you mention don't even belong in the same sentence in terms of wheels. Some just don't realize what a game changer he is, dismiss him with old school football thoughts that are just plain old. Dog him if you want, his team will win ballgames. The problem I have is that if he does get hurt, all everyone will say is, "I told you so". Like noone wants the kid to succeed. That is just plain horrible.

Holy cow, are you a closet Falcons fan? Or just plain over sensitive when someone disagrees with you? I am not "dogging him." I'm dogging the idea of using the Option in the NFL. There is a huge chasm across that gap. When you realize that let me know.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

No, I get what you're saying and I'm discounting it as a doesn't matter point. Or are you trying to tell me that anyone slower than Vick wouldn't be a good candidate? Because that's an awfully narrow view of somethign you're trying to defend. I mean think about what you're actually telling me. It won't work, except with this particular guy.

Sounds an awful lot like you agree with my point, except this one guy in all of History is the exception to this. Awfully convenient thinking.

Umm, yes, I am saying he is an exception. There are some things that only Barry Sanders could do. Jim Brown, or any really gifted player in their time, could also do. Not comparing him to them as overall players, but he has attributes that are that special. More special than anyone else in the game, and yes, this makes him an exception.

So, teams should go find Carl Lewis type track stars if they want this to work? Come on. Do you really expect me to buy that?

Nah, your going a bit far. There is a difference between a track guy and a football player. Vick just happens to be a football player who is as fast as a track star.

Holy cow, are you a closet Falcons fan? Or just plain over sensitive when someone disagrees with you? I am not "dogging him." I'm dogging the idea of using the Option in the NFL. There is a huge chasm across that gap. When you realize that let me know.

I knew it would be just a matter of time before you called me a Falcon fan........

Too many people can only like who is on their team, and thats it. Everyone else sucks. Well, I'm not like that, I can appreciate a player on any team for what he is and give him props if he deserves them. I liked Deion before he was a Cowboy. I can appreciate Barry Sanders, who was never a Cowboy. I could go and defend Barry if you want to, lol...........maybe not.

All I'm saying is just cause he plays for another team, that doesn't make him better or worse and doesn't prevent me from talking positive about him.

I guess you aren't dogging him, you are only saying he is going to blowout his knees. How nice.

I hope the best for him, and I see doing this on a limited basis as not a problem. You are against the option, and for the most part I agree with you, unless you have a special talent at QB like Vick.

 

[Hostile]

Umm, yes, I am saying he is an exception. There are some things that only Barry Sanders could do. Jim Brown, or any really gifted player in their time, could also do. Not comparing him to them as overall players, but he has attributes that are that special. More special than anyone else in the game, and yes, this makes him an exception.

And I don't agree, because 90% of success in the NFL is between the ears not in an arm or a legs. You can't pull off the option without being able to out think the guy in front of you. 4.2 seconds vs. 4.4 seconds vs. 4.6 seconds just doesn't matter. It's that split second you make him hesitate that does. And if he doesn't hesitate...plan B.

Nah, your going a bit far. There is a difference between a track guy and a football player. Vick just happens to be a football player who is as fast as a track star.

LOL

That's all I can say.

I knew it would be just a matter of time before you called me a Falcon fan........

I was being a smart alec. I actually just think you're being way over sensitive.

Too many people can only like who is on their team, and thats it. Everyone else sucks. Well, I'm not like that, I can appreciate a player on any team for what he is and give him props if he deserves them. I liked Deion before he was a Cowboy. I can appreciate Barry Sanders, who was never a Cowboy. I could go and defend Barry if you want to, lol...........maybe not.

Yeah, well that diagnosis ain't me bra. Let me clue you in on something, I like Mike Vick. So while you sit there and try and label me some kind of hater wallow in your utter failure to make the label stick because there's not enough glue in the world when you're applying it to the wrong place.

All I'm saying is just cause he plays for another team, that doesn't make him better or worse and doesn't prevent me from talking positive about him.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about Mike Vick. I'm talking about the Option and its worth in the NFL. I could care less if this discussion was about Drew Bledsoe, Mike Vick, or Howdy Freaking Doody. I like and appreciate football players who make watching the game a jaw dropping experience for me and Vick fits that bill. I don't care what uniform he wears. I don't care about what school he went to. I don't care about anythign other than the incontrovertable fact that in the NFL the Option has not worked and I don't believe it will work, not even with him.

I guess you aren't dogging him, you are only saying he is going to blowout his knees. How nice.

Exactly DF, I'd hate to see the guy get hurt. Are you getting it yet? Is it sinking in? Or should I throw an anvil instead of a life preserver?

I hope the best for him, and I see doing this on a limited basis as not a problem. You are against the option, and for the most part I agree with you, unless you have a special talent at QB like Vick.

I'll stand by what I've already said. They caught some teams off guard. Now they will scheme to stop it and the only guy in History who fits the description of someone at the NFL level who can play this scheme (your words, not mine) will not find the success he could have because this will go backwards, not forwards. I'll be shocked if it isn't scrapped by mid season.

 

[Wolfpack]

Its not like half the guys in the NFL (or more) havent had to defend the option play. Only real advantage is that it forces the defense to practice (and think about) one more thing during the week.

I would certainly find a way to put it in just to make the D think but the injury factor is a season (or more) breaker so it is should used about as much as a reverse.

 

[Deep_Freeze]

And I don't agree, because 90% of success in the NFL is between the ears not in an arm or a legs. You can't pull off the option without being able to out think the guy in front of you. 4.2 seconds vs. 4.4 seconds vs. 4.6 seconds just doesn't matter. It's that split second you make him hesitate that does. And if he doesn't hesitate...plan B.

LOL

That's all I can say.

I was being a smart alec. I actually just think you're being way over sensitive.

Yeah, well that diagnosis ain't me bra. Let me clue you in on something, I like Mike Vick. So while you sit there and try and label me some kind of hater wallow in your utter failure to make the label stick because there's not enough glue in the world when you're applying it to the wrong place.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about Mike Vick. I'm talking about the Option and its worth in the NFL. I could care less if this discussion was about Drew Bledsoe, Mike Vick, or Howdy Freaking Doody. I like and appreciate football players who make watching the game a jaw dropping experience for me and Vick fits that bill. I don't care what uniform he wears. I don't care about what school he went to. I don't care about anythign other than the incontrovertable fact that in the NFL the Option has not worked and I don't believe it will work, not even with him.

Exactly DF, I'd hate to see the guy get hurt. Are you getting it yet? Is it sinking in? Or should I throw an anvil instead of a life preserver?

I'll stand by what I've already said. They caught some teams off guard. Now they will scheme to stop it and the only guy in History who fits the description of someone at the NFL level who can play this scheme (your words, not mine) will not find the success he could have because this will go backwards, not forwards. I'll be shocked if it isn't scrapped by mid season.

I don't get your comments on between the ears, sounds like you are calling Vick dumb. He is smart enough to know when to keep or hand off.

I don't care if they hesistate or what, the game is about beating matchups, and Vick will win quite a few.

You say you don't care who it is, the option doesn't work. Really, the way they are running it, it isn't a true option anyway. Leave the ball in with the RB or take off with it. It looks like any other run out of that formation, and I assume you know that the Falcons gain alot of yards by running the ball.

Now, they could hand it to Dunn, and get yards, but are you telling me if Vick keeps he doesn't get anywhere?? How can you possibly believe that. You just have the option for either to run, giving yourself more options. Vick may hand it off the whole game, but in your thinking, I guess Dunn wouldn't get any yards either.

 

[Hostile]

I don't get your comments on between the ears, sounds like you are calling Vick dumb. He is smart enough to know when to keep or hand off.

Once again, no, I'm not calling him dumb even though in my opinion he's recently done some very dumb things. I'm calling the people who would use the Option in the NFL dumb.

I don't care if they hesistate or what, the game is about beating matchups, and Vick will win quite a few.

I never once said he couldn't win some matchups. I said that once he is operating as a RB he's "fair game," and that it is a gamble with a crucial part of your offense that i wouldn't take.

Is that not clear? How can it not be clear?

You say you don't care who it is, the option doesn't work. Really, the way they are running it, it isn't a true option anyway. Leave the ball in with the RB or take off with it. It looks like any other run out of that formation, and I assume you know that the Falcons gain alot of yards by running the ball.

When did this not be exactly what the Option is? That's truly comical. The Option is, and always has been, about running the ball and having more than 1 option who could end up with the ball. That's why they call it the Option.

Now, they could hand it to Dunn, and get yards, but are you telling me if Vick keeps he doesn't get anywhere?? How can you possibly believe that. You just have the option for either to run, giving yourself more options. Vick may hand it off the whole game, but in your thinking, I guess Dunn wouldn't get any yards either.

Now you're skipping my entire point to go where I haven't gone at all? When did I talk about Dunn in this entire scenario? It isn't about who they can pitch or hand off to. That has nothing whatsoever to do with it. It hasn't even been in the discussion.