Falcons add college-style option to running game

[Doomsday101]

They made their own bed with the hype machine. Vick is a huge money-making entity, and he is at least worth the money - until young boys can figure out that he sucks. This move can do nothing but good for Vick and the Falcons from a marketing perspective, because it makes him more dangerous. He's incapable of running the offense like a normal QB, because he is not a normal QB. He wasn't drafted where he was because he was a normal QB, nor given that contract for that reason.

If you're gonna ride the Vick train, you have to give it the best chance to succeed. They've finally "gotten" that. IMO, the reward far outweighs the risk.

I think Alt is doing what they feel they need to do but I don't think in the end it will be successful. I think he will be on IR before the end of the season.

 

[superpunk]

punk, I don't think going to option plays was a marketing move

Their overall philosphy this year (including the option plays) is absolutely a marketing move. They make their golden boy sit in the pocket - what happens? He goes from being known as a game-changing force who beat the Packers single-handedly in Lambeau - IN January - to being regularly criticized as a mediocre QB who can't run his own offense.

That's not good for business. Eventually, even the most casual of fans is going to catch on. And if this continues to breed winning, the marketing is even better.

 

[peplaw06]

Double-edged sword. How many of those highlights that make us all go "Woop!" along with that ignoramus Chris Berman when we see them, were caused by Vick making that extra move, taking that chance, and making it happen.

Who wants to see highlights of Vick running down the sideline only to step out of bounds 2 yards shy of the end zone? Noone. OTOH, you can show the video of him leaping across and getting up-ended over and over again.

He needs to learn when it's absolutely necessary, but he will never stop trying to get that extra yard. That's what makes him special. He's going to be broke down really early, but that;s what he's got to do.

I see what you're saying, and I agree with it... from a highlight perspective. If you want to be successful and have that success be long-term, you have to think about more than the highlight play.

I look at it like this... Vick can run for 10 yards, or he can get 15 and take a big hit. Run out of bounds, slide, whatever... then get up and do it again. If I'm a coach I don't care if he rips off highlight reel runs. I'd trade off the reduction in yards in one carry for more carries.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

you guys are both out of your minds

 

[superpunk]

I see what you're saying, and I agree with it... from a highlight perspective. If you want to be successful and have that success be long-term, you have to think about more than the highlight play.

I look at it like this... Vick can run for 10 yards, or he can get 15 and take a big hit. Run out of bounds, slide, whatever... then get up and do it again. If I'm a coach I don't care if he rips off highlight reel runs. I'd trade off the reduction in yards in one carry for more carries.

The coach would, definitely. he'd rather have Warrick Dunn trying to pick up those tougher yard than Vick, Dunn just takes the hit better. But it's too late to change the way Vick is. He goes for it. The only thing that's gonna make him change is his body shutting down. That will end his career awful quick, because he's obviously got a ten-cent mind ( for the passing game) to go with it.

 

[dbair1967]

I was referring to the effectiveness of the play against the DE.

Ask yourself... what is the difference between the shotgun option and a BOOTLEG or QB DRAW? The LB's and Safeties are still running under a full head of steam. On any of those plays he's out in the open running the ball... there's no difference.

Also, the option the Cowboys used a few times with Quincy is the option you referred to... the QB is running outside with a pitch man. Based on everyone's description, this is NOT the same thing!

who cares what kind of option/run play it is? The fact is he is injury prone and he is going to get hit more...he's also going to get hit by people that are alot bigger than he is...he isnt going to be able to avoid contact on every run play, especially once teams decide to attack them

David

 

[TEK2000]

who cares what kind of option/run play it is? The fact is he is injury prone and he is going to get hit more...he's also going to get hit by people that are alot bigger than he is...he isnt going to be able to avoid contact on every run play, especially once teams decide to attack them

David

Again, we're not talking about them running this option as their MAIN offense.. its only a very few times per game. Its no different than him scrambling, a bootleg, or QB draw that they run.
Like the article states:

"It is not something you can line up and run every play," Vick said. "You just don't know when it is coming because we have so many other concepts off that package."

How is that different than ANY OTHER PLAY? Most DLinemen and LBers are obviously bigger than he is!

Can't avoid contact on pass plays either.

 

[kmd24]

I won't say it never happened, but RARELY did I see Vince actually fake the handoff to the back, keep it and pull up for a pass. That's what I'm talking about. He may have been lined up in shotgun every play, and may have just taken the snap and attempted a pass, but I don't remember much faking then passing.

There are at least three such plays on this highlight reel at around the 1:30 mark, the 2:35 mark, and the 3:20 mark. There are also plenty of plays where there is no ball fake, so anyone who claims Vince faked the handoff on every play is incorrect.

 

[peplaw06]

There are at least three such plays on this highlight reel at around the 1:30 mark, the 2:35 mark, and the 3:20 mark. There are also plenty of plays where there is no ball fake, so anyone who claims Vince faked the handoff on every play is incorrect.

So 3 plays, out of a 4 minute highlight reel with 50 plays or so, makes me wrong?? I said rarely... and looking at this highlight reel only proves my point.

 

[Doomsday]

The Colts have their famous stretch play, the Falcons have thier new version called the stretcher cause if they run it enough that is exactly where Vick is going to end up.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

My dad coached this way for 20 years. He ran the VEER offense for 15 years and you'd wind up with some big pass plays because the defense expects it to be a run EVERY PLAY. The few times that you do pass you just give them a playaction and your recievers usually wind up being all alone because the defense was selling out against the run.

I admire your dad. I miss those days and wish they'd come back. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if they did at some point, as cyclical as everything in football is.

And you described it right... It's not that the DE is doing the hitting, it's that the DE is the read the QB is making on that play. If the DE stays where he is, you hand it off and there's one less man to be blocked up the gut. If the DE crashes down, the QB keeps it and gets around the end.

Sure, Vick will probably get hurt, but he'd get hurt anyway. It's not like he's going to ever stay in the pocket and get the protection the rules give the QB there anyway.

 

[Hostile]

I was referring to the effectiveness of the play against the DE.

Ask yourself... what is the difference between the shotgun option and a BOOTLEG or QB DRAW? The LB's and Safeties are still running under a full head of steam. On any of those plays he's out in the open running the ball... there's no difference.

Also, the option the Cowboys used a few times with Quincy is the option you referred to... the QB is running outside with a pitch man. Based on everyone's description, this is NOT the same thing!

Uh, in the Shotgun the QB doesn't leave the pocket. So he is NOT out running in the open with the ball.

In a Bootleg he does intentionally, it is not considered a scramble, and the QB is considered "fair game" which is exactly what I said about the Option and why I think it's a bad idea. For the record I am not someone who thinks a Bootleg is a good play to run unless it is rare as in only a handful of times per season. The very reason is that it leaves the QB vulnerable to a big hit. Thus you've amplified my point.

A Draw is where the QB drops back like he's going to pass and hands off to a RB who has delayed moving forward. He is again still in the pocket and not running in the open.

A QB in the pocket has (theoretically) protection in front of him. This simply is not the case in the Option.

The 3 plays are hardly synonymous and none of them have anything to do with the Option.

Yes, the Option is running outside the pocket with a potential "pitch man" to receive the ball. This is exactly my point. Once outside the pocket and acting as a runner the QB is fair game. Defensive Coordinators will instruct their defenders to "make him pay." In college this isn't nearly as dangerous. The defenders are smaller, slower, and usually not an elite level of football. Once these guys reach the NFL the chances of there being a defender who can put a serious hurt on a QB out there is vastly elevated.

Consider this as well, if Vick pitches the ball and does anything after the pitch other than to stop dead in his tracks he can be hit. In the pocket once he does not have the ball unless it is picked off, no one can touch him.

I simply don't think it is an inteligent risk.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Uh, in the Shotgun the QB doesn't leave the pocket. So he is NOT out running in the open with the ball.

We all know the shotgun is for a passing situation.

However I think what he means, and WVU uses this quite a bit, is the QB is back like he is in the shotgun and then has the option of running from that position or giving the ball to the RB who is next to him.

Many times WVU uses this to start off with and than the QB runs out of the pocket or up the middle.

That is what I think he means by that.

 

[LeonDixson]

Really?...a serious question...his defense sure looks good.

I believe he's just the secondary's coach. Still, the secondary is doing very well with about 5 ints so far.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

But Hos, this isn't the old option with a pitch man. The "option" is whether to give to the running back or keep right after the QB gets the snap. You're right that if there was a last-second pitch or keep on the corner that the QB would get destroyed, but that's not what this new-style option is doing.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

the Falcons are shaking up the regimented NFL with their own limited variation of the scheme.

They have alot money invested in this guy and I doubt it is being used much. They are 2-0 and last time I checked, Vick had the 2nd and third highest winning of any active QB.

- Mike G.

 

[LeonDixson]

It's not about wanting it to fail. It's about the fact it opens a QB up to unecessary hits. If he rolls out and pitches the ball he can still be hit because now since he is out of the pocket and downfield he is a potential blocker and if he trails the runner with the ball he is also a potential runner on a pitch back.

It works in college. I believe NFL teams are all too big and too fast for it to work at this level without dire consequences.

Just my opinion.

I agree with you, Hos. But another way to look at this is that Vick is not going to give you much of anything as a "normal" QB. So if you want any return on your investment you almost have to let him run the ball. At least with the option, the defense has to look out for Warrick too.

But I do agree that the option probably won't work for very long against NFL defenses, and Vick is going to be very vulnerable out there.

 

[Hostile]

But Hos, this isn't the old option with a pitch man. The "option" is whether to give to the running back or keep right after the QB gets the snap. You're right that if there was a last-second pitch or keep on the corner that the QB would get destroyed, but that's not what this new-style option is doing.

I recognize this and am not saying differently.

Here, let me say it this way. For a moment you are Roy Williams and I am Mike Vick. We run the option out to the right. To your left you have Terence Newman.

I am past the Line of Scrimmage and out of the pocket. Unless I stop dead in my tracks and give up on the play, whether I have the ball or have pitched it outside to Warrick Dunn and he is now Newman's read and assignment, are you giving me a free ride on that play?

Or if I continue running up the field towards you are you going to do your impersonation of the Sandman? If I have the ball and don't slide feet first before you can touch me. That's the key.

Now, I'll openly admit, I prefer the pocket passer, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with this. I'm talking about straight up send a message defense. Do you deliver the message that this play will cost you, or do you do nothing and let them continue to think it's a good idea?

That's all it boils down to for me. Vick is not 6'4" and 235 pounds. Putting him out there for a defender to get a free shot at is a recipe for Matt Schaub to be the Falcons QB in 2006.

 

[Hostile]

I agree with you, Hos. But another way to look at this is that Vick is not going to give you much of anything as a "normal" QB. So if you want any return on your investment you almost have to let him run the ball. At least with the option, the defense has to look out for Warrick too.

But I do agree that the option probably won't work for very long against NFL defenses, and Vick is going to be very vulnerable out there.

Steve Young made a living out of killing teams with the run. He never needed the Option to do it. So did Cunningham and any number of other QBs who could kill you with the run. Staubach used the Option at Navy at times to win the Heisman, yet to my knowledge never in Dallas.

The value of a QB who can run is amplified by his ability to pass the ball. None of those guys would have succeeded or achieved all they were capable of in the Option. When they ran it was because something had broken down and they saw or created a seam. Not by design. When something is done by creativity and ability it is effective. When a team game plans to stop an Option and does a good job of it, what's left? Now what are the "options?"

I can see running it now and then, same as a shovel pass. Just saying it's a silly risk and I think it has greater potential to get Vick hurt than it does of putting the Falcons opponents in a sticky situation.

 

[baj1dallas]

It won't work. They'll go backwards in fact.

Doesn't seem like that's been the case so far, not that I've watched a Falcons game this year.