FB reps?

BAZ;3406419 said:
Yes, he deserves a chance. But right now he's only batting 50%, and I believe most peoples problem with him is his fondness for the twitters and you tube clips taking away form his concentration on the game.

Unless he is doing twitters and videos during practice, team meetings or games, it isnt taking away from his concentration on the game.

You do know that players DO other things to entertain themselves at other points of the day right?
 
PullMyFinger;3406003 said:
Yup he is a devastating blocker...Too bad he cant catch a cold.
he is a good blocker. but devastating? nah.....but good FBs are rare these days. he sucks as a pass catcher. he is average in pass blocking. he runs a 5.8 40 so you can't even give him the ball for one yard.

we do need an upgrade. but it ranks last on the list of offensive side needs.
 
CowboysFaninDC;3406532 said:
he is a good blocker. but devastating? nah.....but good FBs are rare these days. he sucks as a pass catcher. he is average in pass blocking. he runs a 5.8 40 so you can't even give him the ball for one yard.

we do need an upgrade. but it ranks last on the list of offensive side needs.

Among NFL FB's, yes, Deon is an elite blocker. Bringing up pass blocking for a FB is like bringing up run blocking for a RB. None of them are known for their pass blocking, you'll find that the best pass-blocking FB's are more like RB's than true FB's.

Deon has also had barely any targets in the passing game, so I don't know where the idea comes from that he can't catch anything. I doubt he had more than 5 or 6 targets all of last year, but his rookie year (not to mention in college) he showed that he can catch and do a little bit of something after the catch. He's a FB for crying out loud.

The FB just doesn't factor into our offense much, but the time Romo gets through reading for Witten, Austin, Roy and the RB, he's probably getting sacked.

I still think that the only way Deon isn't on the roster is if he gets suspended, because he's done everything else about as well as you could want, including special teams.

We don't need Leonard Weaver at FB in this offense, we need a solid run blocker that hustles and plays special teams, and Deon does all that very well.
 
CowboysFaninDC;3406532 said:
he is a good blocker. but devastating? nah.....but good FBs are rare these days. he sucks as a pass catcher. he is average in pass blocking. he runs a 5.8 40 so you can't even give him the ball for one yard.

we do need an upgrade. but it ranks last on the list of offensive side needs.

Like it or not Anderson is an outstanding run blocker. Last season only two FB's in the entire NFL graded out better then Deon's 8.1 run blocking grade.

Thing is Bennett was an elite run blocker as well receiving an 8.2 run blocking grade. And John Philips shows a lot of potential as a run blocker also.

It dose not seem like the Cowboys staff has confidence in Anderson ever developing into a receiving threat but there is no denying that Bennett has the potential to develop into a stud at both blocking and receiving.

Anderson has stuck around because of his blocking but the staff will always be looking for a well rounded FB that can Block, Catch and pick up the occasional yard or two on the ground in short yardage situations. Now when you add the fact that the team ran better out of 2TE formations.... It's no wounder why Anderson is on the bubble because of his legal troubles and physical limitations. The team has brought in several candidates to challenge him for a roster stop this year.

Bennett has the physical tools to develop into a great TE but many of us are ready to give up on him because we want instant gratification. How many of us arm chair GM's would of had the patience to develop talents like Romo, Gurode, Ratliff, Spencer, and Austin when they didn't come out the gate setting the league on fire?

As fans we always want our players to be instant success stories but some times these guys need time to develop and hone there craft at the NFL level.

Seems like a lot of fans (rightfully so) are disappointed Bennett did not carry the potential he showed as an offensive receiving threat during training camp into the regular season last year. But we can not deny he showed the potential in that area the team felt he had when they drafted him.

Marty B may never develop into the player the team feels he can become but I'm glade our coaches have the patience most of us lack.

John Phillips could be the Philip Rivers of TE's but wouldn't you be a little bit upset if Bennett developed into the Drew Brees of TE's after we got rid of him? I don't care what the Chargers say they would do that one over if they could. Now don't go nuts on the comparison I just made cause all I'm saying is for those that want to give up on Bennett because Philips did a solid job with the opportunities he got last season need to look at the big picture.

Anyways when was the last time the Cowboys let a player go that became a bonafide bad arse some place else like Cris Carter, Priest Holmes, Brees or even Leonard Davis has for us?
 
Apluz;3406999 said:
Like it or not Anderson is an outstanding run blocker. Last season only two FB's in the entire NFL graded out better then Deon's 8.1 run blocking grade.

Thing is Bennett was an elite run blocker as well receiving an 8.2 run blocking grade. And John Philips shows a lot of potential as a run blocker also.
Two things. One, their ratings system is useless. Two, the 8.1 doesn't refer to "run blocking" -- it refers to "blocking," which presumably includes run and pass blocking.

They also graded out Witten as the best run-blocking TE in the league, ahead of Martellus. I love Witten, but that just shows how silly their ratings system is.
 
TheCount;3406599 said:
Among NFL FB's, yes, Deon is an elite blocker. Bringing up pass blocking for a FB is like bringing up run blocking for a RB. None of them are known for their pass blocking, you'll find that the best pass-blocking FB's are more like RB's than true FB's.

then I guess we agree to disagree. I don't think Deon is a devastating run blcoker. and as a FB not only you are lead blocker for a RB, half of the plays are pass, and in half of those we probably have a FB in play so he better be able to pass block and stop the blitzing LBs and be the last line of defense to Romo, barber is a RB and he does and excellent job in that dept, which often goes un-noticed by casual fans.


Deon has also had barely any targets in the passing game, so I don't know where the idea comes from that he can't catch anything. I doubt he had more than 5 or 6 targets all of last year, but his rookie year (not to mention in college) he showed that he can catch and do a little bit of something after the catch. He's a FB for crying out loud.


he doesn't get targeted because he doesn't catch well and he doesn't get open well. remember moose johnston. he was the security blanket and the 5th option and he caught a bunch. the cowboys are looking to improve in that dept. and thus have moved Phillips to the h-back role some last year and looking to do the same with Sicko to provide another element to their offense that's missing. and not every FB is a good pass catcher, specially these days in college many don't run pro offensive sets and FBs are used to open holes for running games. so just because he is a FB doesn't automatically mean he is a good pass catcher.


The FB just doesn't factor into our offense much, but the time Romo gets through reading for Witten, Austin, Roy and the RB, he's probably getting sacked.

same could have been said about our 90's offense. but Moose still managed to catch a ton. he was the 5th read on most pass plays. he released when there was no pass rush and caught a bunch in the flat or on short hook routes that was more like a long hand off. displayed sure hands as well. Deon lacks in this area greatly.

I still think that the only way Deon isn't on the roster is if he gets suspended, because he's done everything else about as well as you could want, including special teams.

gronwkowski (sp?) might be able to replace him if he can block and shows sure hands. but since FB ranks last as importance to the offense, we may just go with the experienced Deon, or replace him with H-back (Sicko and Phillips) and stash Gran....in practice squad.

We don't need Leonard Weaver at FB in this offense, we need a solid run blocker that hustles and plays special teams, and Deon does all that very well.

we don't need but a player like weaver has a lot of value. it creates another element on the offense that the defenses have to prepare for. That's why as the year wore on, and team trusted phillips more and he learned more, we started to deploy som h-back formations with Phillips in the back field. We also have done that with Witten and Bennett. Deon might be a good lead blocker through the hole, but as a FB he leaves a lot to be desired and given all the issues on the offensive side it would be the last position we would focus on, but we are looking.
 
theogt;3407030 said:
Two things. One, their ratings system is useless. Two, the 8.1 doesn't refer to "run blocking" -- it refers to "blocking," which presumably includes run and pass blocking.

They also graded out Witten as the best run-blocking TE in the league, ahead of Martellus. I love Witten, but that just shows how silly their ratings system is.

agreed. profootballfocus ratings are absolutley crazy. did you know stephen peterman played better than Leonard "Bigg" davis? that David Gerrard was a bette QB than Romo, and Mark Sanchez. that Rothlisberger was a better rated QB than Peyton Manning.

that fred jackosn and justin forsett are rated higher than felix jones, adrian peterson,

kelley washington is a better WR than Marquis Coltston

and on down the line.
 
theogt;3407030 said:
Two things. One, their ratings system is useless. Two, the 8.1 doesn't refer to "run blocking" -- it refers to "blocking," which presumably includes run and pass blocking.

They also graded out Witten as the best run-blocking TE in the league, ahead of Martellus. I love Witten, but that just shows how silly their ratings system is.

Sorry theogt but your pretty much dead wrong on all points.

1. ProFootballFocus is highly respected and do there due diligence in grading every player on a per play basis. And yes they do give separate grades on run and pass blocking. So your dead wrong there 8.1 grade is for his run blocking alone. Source

2. As a fan you shouldn't need someone to tell you that Witten is one of the best run blocking TE's in the league but if you do just listen to anyone (Inside and outside of the Cowboys organization) when they talk about his game and you will get a clue.

3. Your entitled to your opinion I just happen to disagree with your last point for I feel there rating system is pretty accurate for all NFL players not just ones with a star on there helmets.

Witten, Bennett and Philips make up the best run blocking trio of TE's in the league and when I said they ran better out of 2TE sets then any other formation it's because they did. Source.

However more then just looking at the work somebody else did in breaking down game film simply watching Cowboy games would let you know that we have a good group of run blocking TE's. IMO it would be silly to not trust what your eyes see they don't lie.
 
Apluz;3407402 said:
Sorry theogt but your pretty much dead wrong on all points.

1. ProFootballFocus is highly respected and do there due diligence in grading every player on a per play basis.
I respect them too. For their collection of statistics. But their ratings system is completely unreliable. You have have no idea what goes into it. And the results are often non-sensical.

However, their collection of raw statistics is admirable.

And yes they do give separate grades on run and pass blocking. So your dead wrong there 8.1 grade is for his run blocking alone. Source
You linked to Bennett's page. Anderson's run blocking score was actually an 8.8.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/by_...lastname=Anderson&surn=Anderson&playerid=3811

2. As a fan you shouldn't need someone to tell you that Witten is one of the best run blocking TE's in the league but if you do just listen to anyone (Inside and outside of the Cowboys organization) when they talk about his game and you will get a clue.
I think he's a fine run blocker. The best in the business? He's not even the best on the team.
 
CowboysFaninDC;3407232 said:
agreed. profootballfocus ratings are absolutley crazy. did you know stephen peterman played better than Leonard "Bigg" davis? that David Gerrard was a bette QB than Romo, and Mark Sanchez. that Rothlisberger was a better rated QB than Peyton Manning.

that fred jackosn and justin forsett are rated higher than felix jones, adrian peterson,

kelley washington is a better WR than Marquis Coltston

and on down the line.

CowboysFaninDC

I believe your are getting the wrong impression on how there ratings work for instance I'm pretty sure your just looking at the cumulative summaries on each player and did not take the time to click on individual ratings per skill set. While Leonard Davis was by far the better run blocker you need to factor in QB hits, Pressures, sacks, penalties and a linemen ability to block on screen plays as well for a cumulative summary.

Its easy to see who has caught the most balls, who had the most yards and TD's but they are grading like NFL teams do based on a players overall game factoring in for example using WR's things like % of ball caught, run and pass blocking, Yards after catch per reception, number of drops and fumbles ect.

So if you want to know who was the best at the stats that mean the most just click on the proper tab and sort by skill. And it will sort by who had the most yards and TD's ect.... but go deeper and click on tabs like fumbles peniaitlies, drops ect if you want to know how a player stacks up vs others in the non glamor stats that also count.
 
theogt;3407424 said:
I respect them too. For their collection of statistics. But their ratings system is completely unreliable. You have have no idea what goes into it. And the results are often non-sensical.

However, their collection of raw statistics is admirable.

It's easy to try and discredit something you do not agree with by saying it's unreliable with absolutely nothing to back up what your saying.

An while you may feel the results are not logical I can bet you coaches would disagree. For example as a coach you would want to know which of his WR's blocks better on run plays when setting personnel packages... which is easily charted by the percentage of times your man is in on a tackle during running plays. Coaches keep track of those things not only during games but practices as well.

So when you here things from the Cowboys staff like Kyle Kosier graded out better then any of our linemen. You many choose to not believe it. But in the grad scheme of things dose what you believe in really matter?

theogt;3407424 said:
You linked to Bennett's page. Anderson's run blocking score was actually an 8.8.

You are correct I linked the wrong page. I'm sorry... however the point I made rings true you were DEAD wrong when you stated that the blocking stats they used includes run and pass blocking together when they are broken down separately.

theogt;3407424 said:
I think he's a fine run blocker. The best in the business? He's not even the best on the team.

That's funny... but just for kicks mind letting me know what TE on our team was a better run blocker then Jason Witten last season?
 
Apluz;3407785 said:
It's easy to try and discredit something you do not agree with by saying it's unreliable with absolutely nothing to back up what your saying.

An while you may feel the results are not logical I can bet you coaches would disagree. For example as a coach you would want to know which of his WR's blocks better on run plays went setting personnel packages which is easily charted by the percentage of times your man is in on a tackle while during running plays. Coaches keep track of those things not only during games but practices as well.

So when you here things like Kyle Kosier graded out better then any of our linemen you many not believe it but in the grad schem of things dose what you believe in really matter?
Obviously, the Cowboys coaches would disagree with their ratings. They stated that they rated out Alex Barron very highly in 2009, but PFF had him ranked 70th (out of 77 tackles). There are many other examples of their rankings producing silly results.

You are correct I linked the wrong page sorry... however the point I made rings true you were DEAD wrong when you stated that the blocking stats they used includes run and pass blocking together when they are broken down separately.
You originally stated that he had an 8.1 "run blocking" grade. The only stat for Deon with an 8.1 is the "blocking" statistic, which appears when you look at all of the fullbacks. His "run-blocking" grade is different.

That's funny... but just for kicks mind letting me know what TE on our team was a better run blocker then Jason Witten last season?
Martellus Bennett.
 
theogt;3407795 said:
Obviously, the Cowboys coaches would disagree with their ratings. They stated that they rated out Alex Barron very highly in 2009, but PFF had him ranked 70th (out of 77 tackles). There are many other examples of their rankings producing silly results.

Where did you see or hear the Cowboy staff talking about how they graded Barron's blocking compared to the rest of the league?

I did see in print where some pundits said he had good feet and all the physical tools to be successful and even some saying he would be an upgrade to Adams but even after a search I could not find any of our staff mentioning anything about Alex Barron's blocking grades.

Stands to reason had Barron graded highly with the Rams they would of never been willing to part with him.

theogt;3407795 said:
You originally stated that he had an 8.1 "run blocking" grade. The only stat for Deon with an 8.1 is the "blocking" statistic, which appears when you look at all of the fullbacks. His "run-blocking" grade is different.

Correct again and like I said Deon is an outstanding run blocker. I did him an injustice stating he only had a 8.1 blocking grade my bad.

But that is not enough to keep him on the team, if any of the other guys competing with him shows they are more versatile and do an adequate job of run blocking Deon will be gone. Bank on it! Even the causal fan knows that almost every time Deon is in the game it's going to be a run! Time we stop tipping our hand.

theogt;3407795 said:
Martellus Bennett.

And you think he is based on?

I surely didn't get that feeling Bennett was the better run blocker while watching games. But I must admit I never really though about one being better then the other I just felt they were both doing a super job.

I'm simply giving the various pundits and folks that actually took the time to break down film there due so when I see an independent respected source grading Witten (by a large margin) better then Bennett. I'm not going to argue.
 
Apluz;3408224 said:
Where did you see or hear the Cowboy staff talking about how they graded Barron's blocking compared to the rest of the league?

I did see in print where some pundits said he had good feet and all the physical tools to be successful and even some saying he would be an upgrade to Adams but even after a search I could not find any of our staff mentioning anything about Alex Barron's blocking grades.

Stands to reason had Barron graded highly with the Rams they would of never been willing to part with him.
Jerry Jones said it himself. Perhaps it was fluff. But I doubt they'd trade for the guy if he was truly 70th out of 77.

And you think he is based on?

I surely didn't get that feeling Bennett was the better run blocker while watching games. But I must admit I never really though about one being better then the other I just felt they were both doing a super job.

I'm simply giving the various pundits and folks that actually took the time to break down film there due so when I see two independent respected sources grading Witten (by a large margin) better then Bennett and both those sources have Witten rated as the best run blocking TE. I'm not going to argue.
It's based on it be glaringly obvious watching the game.
 
I just can't bring myself to talk about fullback reps right now, with so much excitement getting deleted left and right. Sigh.
 
Idgit;3408279 said:
I just can't bring myself to talk about fullback reps right now, with so much excitement getting deleted left and right. Sigh.
Deleted in 3....2.....1....
 
theogt;3408290 said:
Deleted in 3....2.....1....

I honestly clicked on the "You will be missed" thread thinking it was a farewell to one of the posters involved in the controversy. The delay between clicking the link and seeing the page load felt like a TV commercial break in Lost.
 
theogt;3408231 said:
Jerry Jones said it himself. Perhaps it was fluff. But I doubt they'd trade for the guy if he was truly 70th out of 77.

Well I have never seen or heard Jerry talk about Barrons blocking grade in fact I have only heard Jerry talk about his starting experience and potential to add quality depth.

Teams add guys based on how they feel they will fit into there system. The Rams took Carpenter thinking he will shine in there defensive system and the Cowboys took Barron thinking with his experience and physical tools they can help him reach his potential.

Some times they hit some times ya miss but when it cost you nothing it dose not sting if you fail.

theogt;3408231 said:
It's based on it be glaringly obvious watching the game.

If you say so..... I disagree however, again I though all our TE's did a bang up job run blocking but Bennett sure as heck didn't seem like he did anything glaringly better then Witten.
 
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