Finding a Franchise QB

[jnday]

Seriously? You went digging for some old threads to somehow try to look 'right' in this one? That's pretty sad...

I have to admit that if you was wrong in that list, it is rare IMO. I agree with 99% of your opinions. I bet he had to look long and hard to find it.

 

[Stash]

I have to admit that if you was wrong in that list, it is rare IMO. I agree with 99% of your opinions. I bet he had to look long and hard to find it.

I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. I just find it pathetic that he had to stoop to that because he was getting clobbered here.

 

[Galian Beast]

Seriously? You went digging for some old threads to somehow try to look 'right' in this one? That's pretty sad...

I proved that you have no idea what you're talking about here. The suggestion of trading a 1st or a 2nd in 2015 for Manziel proves you have no credibility here.

 

[Galian Beast]

I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. I just find it pathetic that he had to stoop to that because he was getting clobbered here.

You find evidence of your lack of credibility on an issue pathetic?

That's pretty telling.

If we listened to you then it would have blown up in our face and you're pushing the same agenda then that you are now. You aren't particularly interested in either Goff or Wentz, you just like the idea of getting any QB.

 

[Stash]

I proved that you have no idea what you're talking about here. The suggestion of trading a 1st or a 2nd in 2015 for Manziel proves you have no credibility here.

First, Sherlock, that post you resorted to digging up was from 2014, but you've never let the truth stop you before, have you?

Secondly, you have to resort to tactics like that in your vain attempt to be 'right' here, no matter how many people tell you you're 'wrong' and then dare to question someone else's credibility? Laughable.

But you keep at it!

 

[Galian Beast]

I have to admit that if you was wrong in that list, it is rare IMO. I agree with 99% of your opinions. I bet he had to look long and hard to find it.

It wasn't hard. All I had to do was put in a name of a quarterback who we were in position to draft and search it with his name. And there it was.

 

[Galian Beast]

First, Sherlock, that post you resorted to digging up was from 2014, but you've never let the truth stop you before, have you?

Secondly, you have to resort to tactics like that in your vain attempt to be 'right' here, no matter how many people tell you you're 'wrong' and then dare to question someone else's credibility? Laughable.

But you keep at it!

It would have been a 2015 draft pick.

And yes, using evidence is what you do in an argument. Especially the own words and statements of the person you are arguing with.

It goes to the point that if you got your way, it would have been a disaster.

You have an agenda and you've been pushing it for sometime.

 

[Stash]

You find evidence of your lack of credibility on an issue pathetic?

That's pretty telling.

What's "telling" is the depths that you will stop to in order to try to convince yourself that you're somehow 'right'. The leaps in logic you will try to take are truly sad and pathetic.

If we listened to you then it would have blown up in our face and you're pushing the same agenda then that you are now. You aren't particularly interested in either Goff or Wentz, you just like the idea of getting any QB.

You don't get to speak for me or to infer what I am or what I am not interested in.

Sad, sad, little person.

 

[Galian Beast]

What's "telling" is the depths that you will stop to in order to try to convince yourself that you're somehow 'right'. The leaps in logic you will try to take are truly sad and pathetic.



You don't get to speak for me or to infer what I am or what I am not interested in.

Sad, sad, little person.

Used your own statement against you. I'm sure you didn't like having it blow up in your face, but you're doing the same thing you're doing now.

 

[Stash]

It would have been a 2015 draft pick.

And yes, using evidence is what you do in an argument. Especially the own words and statements of the person you are arguing with.

It goes to the point that if you got your way, it would have been a disaster.

You have an agenda and you've been pushing it for sometime.

I've pushed for acquiring Manziel on several occasions, as recently as a few months ago. I'll freely admit that to anyone who asks. If you were a man about things and asked me, I would have told you that. But that's not your style, is it?

I had no idea that he would flush his career down the drain the way he has. If you knew, please share the posts where you predicted it?

 

[Galian Beast]

What's even more unbelievable is that he said this as Romo was having an MVP year...

 

[Stash]

Used your own statement against you. I'm sure you didn't like having it blow up in your face, but you're doing the same thing you're doing now.

Again, unlike you, I can actually handle and admit to being wrong.

If you predicted everything that would happen to Manziel, why don't you go and dig up those insights and enlighten all of us?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Galian Beast]

I've pushed for acquiring Manziel on several occasions, as recently as a few months ago. I'll freely admit that to anyone who asks. If you were a man about things and asked me, I would have told you that. But that's not your style, is it?

I had no idea that he would flush his career down the drain the way he has. If you knew, please share the posts where you predicted it?

I also have pushed for acquiring Manziel, you're not alone in that.

The difference between you and me though, is that I'm not going to give up a premium pick for a QB that I don't feel strongly about.

 

[Galian Beast]

Here are my statements on the idea of drafting Manziel, which I was extremely against, not because he was going to implode, but because it didn't make logical sense to do so.

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/romo-v-manziel.288922/

 

[Stash]

I also have pushed for acquiring Manziel, you're not alone in that.

Seriously? And yet you'll try to attack me for it? Talk about a hypocrite!

The difference between you and me though, is that I'm not going to give up a premium pick for a QB that I don't feel strongly about.

Because yours is the only opinion that matters, got it.

 

[Galian Beast]

Seriously? And yet you'll try to attack me for it? Talk about a hypocrite!



Because yours is the only opinion that matters, got it.

Context matters. I've never suggested getting him with a 1st round draft pick. That's the part that is ridiculous.

Until his most recent event, I still would have welcomed him as the 2nd or 3rd QB here.

 

[BlindFaith]

Here are the QBs since 1998 and round picked - based off of winning percentage above 50% (with a minimum of 25 games started)
68% were in the first or second round

1 1 Peyton Manning 1998 292 200 92 69%
1 11 Ben Roethlisberger 2004 186 124 62 67%
1 24 Aaron Rodgers 2005 132 87 45 66%
1 1 Andrew Luck 2012 61 38 23 62%
1 18 Joe Flacco 2008 137 85 52 62%
1 3 Vince Young 2006 51 31 20 61%
1 2 Donovan McNabb 1999 177 107 69 61%
1 32 Teddy Bridgewater 2014 29 17 12 59%
1 1 Cam Newton 2011 84 48 35 58%
1 3 Matt Ryan 2008 131 75 56 57%
1 4 Philip Rivers 2004 169 96 73 57%
1 1 Alex Smith 2005 126 70 55 56%
1 1 Eli Manning 2004 194 105 89 54%
1 1 Michael Vick 2001 118 63 54 54%
1 18 Chad Pennington 2000 87 46 41 53%
1 22 Rex Grossman 2003 51 27 24 53%
1 5 Mark Sanchez 2009 78 41 37 53%
1 1 Carson Palmer 2003 163 84 79 52%
1 11 Jay Cutler 2006 136 68 68 50%
2 35 Andy Dalton 2011 80 49 30 62%
2 36 Colin Kaepernick 2011 53 31 22 59%
2 32 Drew Brees 2001 227 130 97 57%
2 50 Shaun King 1999 27 15 12 56%
2 53 Quincy Carter 2001 35 18 17 51%
3 75 Russell Wilson 2012 74 53 21 72%
3 91 Brian Griese 1998 83 45 38 54%
3 88 Nick Foles 2012 36 19 17 53%
3 90 Matt Schaub 2004 94 48 46 51%
4 108 David Garrard 2002 78 40 38 51%
4 106 Kyle Orton 2005 82 42 40 51%
6 199 Tom Brady 2000 254 194 60 76%
6 187 Matt Hasselbeck 1998 171 90 81 53%
UD Tony Romo 2003 133 80 53 60%
UD Brian Hoyer 2009 27 15 12 56%
UD Matt Moore 2007 25 13 12 52%

 

[BlindFaith]

Next is the list of QBs since 1998 with less than 50% win percentage but still more than 25 starts (unless the player has only been in the league a couple years)
63% were in the first or second round

1 7 Byron Leftwich 2003 51 24 27 47%
1 8 Ryan Tannehill 2012 64 29 35 45%
1 1 Matthew Stafford 2009 95 42 53 44%
1 19 Kyle Boller 2003 47 20 27 43%
1 11 Daunte Culpepper 1999 104 43 61 41%
1 17 Josh Freeman 2009 61 25 36 41%
1 25 Jason Campbell 2005 79 32 47 41%
1 1 Sam Bradford 2010 63 25 37 41%
1 12 Christian Ponder 2011 36 14 21 40%
1 2 Robert Griffin 2012 36 14 22 39%
1 16 EJ Manuel 2013 16 6 10 38%
1 1 Tim Couch 1999 59 22 37 37%
1 3 Joey Harrington 2002 76 26 50 34%
1 22 J.P. Losman 2004 33 10 23 30%
1 1 David Carr 2002 79 23 56 29%
1 1 JaMarcus Russell 2007 25 7 18 28%
1 3 Blake Bortles 2014 29 8 21 28%
1 22 Johnny Manziel 2014 8 2 6 25%
1 22 Brandon Weeden 2012 25 6 19 24%
1 10 Blaine Gabbert 2011 35 8 27 23%
2 57 Brock Osweiler 2012 7 5 2 71%
2 64 Tarvaris Jackson 2006 35 17 18 49%
2 60 Charlie Batch 1998 55 25 30 46%
2 39 Geno Smith 2013 29 11 18 38%
2 57 Chad Henne 2008 53 18 35 34%
2 36 Derek Carr 2014 32 10 22 31%
3 92 Trent Edwards 2007 33 14 19 42%
3 81 Josh McCown 2002 57 18 39 32%
3 85 Colt McCoy 2010 25 7 18 28%
3 73 Mike Glennon 2013 18 5 13 28%
4 131 Aaron Brooks 1999 92 39 53 42%
4 102 Kirk Cousins 2012 26 11 15 42%
5 164 AJ McCarron 2014 4 2 2 50%
6 213 Derek Anderson 2005 45 20 25 44%
6 168 Marc Bulger 2000 98 42 56 43%
6 178 Zach Mettenberger 2014 10 0 10 0%
7 230 Matt Cassel 2005 80 35 45 44%
7 250 Ryan Fitzpatrick 2005 105 43 61 41%
UD Shaun Hill 2002 34 16 18 47%
UD Austin Davis 2012 10 3 7 30%
UD Matt McGloin 2013 6 1 5 17%

 

[BlindFaith]

Finally we have the list of QBs since 1998 that have fewer than 25 starts
11% were in the first or second round

1 25 Tim Tebow 2010 16 9 7 56%
1 10 Matt Leinart 2006 18 8 10 44%
1 32 Patrick Ramsey 2002 24 10 14 42%
1 8 Jake Locker 2011 23 9 14 39%
1 22 Brady Quinn 2007 20 4 16 20%
1 12 Cade McNown 1999 15 3 12 20%
1 2 Ryan Leaf 1998 21 4 17 19%
1 3 Akili Smith 1999 17 3 14 18%
2 43 Drew Stanton 2007 12 7 5 58%
2 36 Kevin Kolb 2007 21 9 12 43%
2 49 Kellen Clemens 2006 21 8 13 38%
2 48 Jimmy Clausen 2010 14 1 13 7%
2 40 John Beck 2007 7 0 7 0%
2 56 Brian Brohm 2008 2 0 2 0%
2 59 Marques Tuiasosopo 2001 2 0 2 0%
2 62 Jimmy Garoppolo 2014 0%
3 97 Chris Simms 2003 17 7 10 41%
3 74 Ryan Mallett 2011 8 3 5 38%
3 75 Chris Redman 2000 12 4 8 33%
3 67 Charlie Frye 2005 23 7 16 30%
3 69 Andrew Walter 2005 9 2 7 22%
3 81 Charlie Whitehurst 2006 9 2 7 22%
3 86 Jonathan Quinn 1998 6 1 5 17%
3 85 Brodie Croyle 2006 10 0 10 0%
3 77 Brock Huard 1999 4 0 4 0%
3 88 Dave Ragone 2003 2 0 2 0%
3 85 David Greene 2005 0%
3 65 Giovanni Carmazzi 2000 0%
3 94 Kevin O'Connell 2008 0%
4 101 Stephen McGee 2009 1 1 0 100%
4 109 Sage Rosenfels 2001 12 6 6 50%
4 115 Landry Jones 2013 2 1 1 50%
4 110 Seneca Wallace 2003 22 6 16 27%
4 106 Luke McCown 2004 10 2 8 20%
4 106 Chris Weinke 2001 20 2 18 10%
4 125 Jesse Palmer 2001 3 0 3 0%
4 101 Joe Germaine 1999 0%
4 120 Logan Thomas 2014 0%
4 98 Matt Barkley 2013 0%
4 122 Mike Kafka 2010 0%
4 117 Rohan Davey 2002 0%
4 110 Ryan Nassib 2013 0%
4 121 Stefan LeFors 2005 0%
4 135 Tom Savage 2014 0%
4 112 Tyler Wilson 2013 0%
5 156 Dennis Dixon 2008 3 2 1 67%
5 148 Craig Krenzel 2004 5 3 2 60%
5 152 T.J Yates 2011 9 5 4 56%
5 174 Troy Smith 2007 8 4 4 50%
5 155 John Skelton 2010 17 8 9 47%
5 155 A.J. Feeley 2001 18 8 10 44%
5 158 Kurt Kittner 2002 4 1 3 25%
5 149 Mike McMahon 2001 14 3 11 21%
5 145 Dan Orlovsky 2005 12 2 10 17%
5 160 Josh Johnson 2008 5 0 5 0%
5 163 Brian St. Pierre 2003 1 0 1 0%
5 137 Randy Fasani 2002 1 0 1 0%
5 163 Aaron Murray 2014 0%
5 152 Adrian McPherson 2005 0%
5 163 Brandon Doman 2002 0%
5 164 Craig Nall 2002 0%
5 162 Erik Ainge 2008 0%
5 148 Ingle Martin 2006 0%
5 151 Jeff Rowe 2007 0%
5 137 John David Booty 2008 0%
5 168 Jonathan Crompton 2010 0%
5 151 Kevin Daft 1999 0%
5 171 Nate Davis 2009 0%
5 160 Nathan Enderle 2011 0%
5 164 Omar Jacobs 2006 0%
5 151 Rhett Bomar 2009 0%
5 135 Ricky Stanzi 2011 0%
5 163 Tee Martin 2000 0%
6 192 Drew Henson 2003 1 1 0 100%
6 180 Tyrod Taylor 2011 13 7 6 54%
6 199 Joe Webb 2010 3 1 2 33%
6 194 Bruce Gradkowski 2006 20 6 14 30%
6 186 J.T. O'Sullivan 2002 8 2 6 25%
6 200 Brooks Bollinger 2003 10 2 8 20%
6 185 Ryan Lindley 2012 7 1 6 14%
6 201 Curtis Painter 2009 8 0 8 0%
6 196 Keith Null 2009 4 0 4 0%
6 183 Spergon Wynn 2000 3 0 3 0%
6 176 Rusty Smith 2010 1 0 1 0%
6 198 Andre Woodson 2008 0%
6 185 Andy Hall 2004 0%
6 186 Colt Brennan 2008 0%
6 181 Dan LeFevour 2010 0%
6 183 David Fales 2014 0%
6 214 Garrett Gilbert 2014 0%
6 201 Jeff Smoker 2004 0%
6 193 Jim Sorgi 2004 0%
6 205 Jordan Palmer 2007 0%
6 172 Josh Booty 2001 0%
6 187 Josh Harris 2004 0%
6 177 Josh Heupel 2001 0%
6 194 Keith Wenning 2014 0%
6 201 Kliff Kingsbury 2003 0%
6 178 Mike Teel 2009 0%
6 213 Tajh Boyd 2014 0%
6 202 Todd Husak 2000 0%
6 174 Tom Brandstater 2009 0%
6 204 Tony Pike 2010 0%
7 245 Scott Covington 1999 1 1 0 100%
7 209 Matt Flynn 2008 7 3 4 43%
7 212 Tim Rattay 2000 18 5 13 28%
7 241 Ken Dorsey 2003 13 2 11 15%
7 217 Tyler Thigpen 2007 12 1 11 8%
7 217 Cody Pickett 2004 2 0 2 0%
7 208 Greg McElroy 2011 1 0 1 0%
7 214 Jarious Jackson 2000 1 0 1 0%
7 202 John Navarre 2004 1 0 1 0%
7 223 Alex Brink 2008 0%
7 243 B.J. Coleman 2012 0%
7 237 B.J. Daniels 2013 0%
7 248 B.J. Symons 2004 0%
7 221 Brad Sorensen 2013 0%
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt 2004 0%
7 218 Casey Bramlet 2004 0%
7 253 Chandler Harnish 2012 0%
7 239 Chris Greisen 1999 0%
7 223 D.J. Shockley 2006 0%
7 232 Gibran Hamdan 2003 0%
7 232 Jeff Kelly 2002 0%
7 234 Joe Hamilton 2000 0%
7 209 Levi Brown 2010 0%
7 225 Matt Mauck 2004 0%
7 227 Michael Bishop 1999 0%
7 232 Moses Moreno 1998 0%
7 235 Ronald Curry 2002 0%
7 239 Sean Canfield 2010 0%
7 249 Sean Renfree 2013 0%
7 216 Seth Burford 2002 0%
7 236 Wes Pate 2002 0%
7 234 Zac Dysert 2013 0%
7 250 Zac Robinson 2010 0%
UD Chase Daniel 2009 2 1 1 50%
UD Clint Stoerner 2000 2 1 1 50%
UD Anthony Wright 1999 20 8 12 40%
UD Case Keenum 2012 15 5 10 33%
UD Tyler Palko 2007 4 1 3 25%
UD Chad Hutchinson 1999 14 3 11 21%
UD Tim Hasselbeck 2001 5 1 4 20%
UD Cleo Lemon 2003 8 1 7 13%
UD Kellen Moore 2012 2 0 2 0%
UD Brock Berlin 2005 1 0 1 0%

 

[BlindFaith]

This clearly says that if you want to find a QB that will have the chops to start for you, you had better get him in the first or second round.

Yes, they could bust (see the final list), but odds are far more in your favor to hit there then to wait until later.