Finding Romo's Replacement

[Toruk_Makto]

The hardest position to fill in sports is that of franchise QB. You take one when you can get one. To think it's going to happen on your schedule is foolish.

Until that position is settled, the future of this team is cloudy at best, IMO.

We already have one.

And as you said it's incredibly hard to find these guys.

Let's stop searching for our next unicorn and make sure we maximize the one we have now.

 

[Galian Beast]

So as I understand it, you wouldn't take a run on a single, first round pick, because that's "random," but you would take the chance on possibly giving up two picks on a franchised QB on a rookie contract, because teams would so willingly allow you to do so? Why not just rub a genie's lamp and wish for a franchise QB?

Talk about random.

If said team would let their "franchised QB" (actually, non-exclusive franchise player) go, the Cowboys would be on the hook for TWO first round picks, and this you feel is a perfectly sound philosophy and not "the dumbest thing you've ever heard?"

Did you not see trades like Herschel, Roy Williams, Joey Galloway, RG3, Ricky Williams, etc. blow up in their teams (Cowboys twice, for the love of Pete) face?

Why on earth, if their QB is indeed a franchise player, would a team let them go, knowing how hard it is to find a real franchise QB? Could anyone ever see the Colts letting Luck go or the Seahawks let Wilson go (is this the unlikely scenario you're personally hoping for?)?

And, if any team DID let their franchise QB go, would not you feel like the Cowboys got hoodwinked into buying fools gold? Could anyone imagine the Cowboys blowing two first round picks on QBs like Geno, Austin Davis, Hoyer, etc.? TWO first round picks.

And Vets? Please. How many times, in the last decade, has a vet gone on to other teams to be anything special? Alex Smith? Matt Schaub? Fitzpatrick? Cutler?

The only one that comes to mind is Brees, and I'd say his scenario is much rarer than actually drafting one.

So, the idea of taking a run on a franchised QB or a washed up/journeyman vet seems like more of a sure thing than drafting and developing a high draft pick?

Gotcha.

I didn't even say I wouldn't draft someone in the first. Please learn how to read. I said I wouldn't do it just to do it, which appears to be the motto of many here.

And yes, I'd be more willing to invest two first round draft picks in someone who is a sure thing, rather than taking the risk of drafting someone in the first. Again, please check the statistics on that, you don't seem do be good with reading or math...

None of the quarterbacks you mentioned are going to be franchised, and what makes you think you would blindly try to sign one of them?

Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning both took new teams to the super bowl... and as you said Brees won it. And yeah, if you looked at the rate of getting an elite free agent QB versus drafting them in the 1st, you would see a higher success rate... again, math isn't your strong suit is it?

 

[Broges74]

What are you guys talking about? Our oline is so good, any qb will suddenly be an allpro behind it. At least that's what they'd have you believe at the rb position.

I know, let's use a qbbc approach. Our line is so good, they'll have time to throw a perfect ball everytime.

 

[Dodger12]

Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning both took new teams to the super bowl... and as you said Brees won it. And yeah, if you looked at the rate of getting an elite free agent QB versus drafting them in the 1st, you would see a higher success rate... again, math isn't your strong suit is it?

Your math is fuzzy, as is your reasoning. None of the QB's you mentioned were considered "elite" when they were picked up by other teams as FA's. Manning was coming off back/neck surgery and was a huge question mark and released by the Colts. Warner was benched in St. Louis and NY and had health issues. He signed a 1 year 4 million dollar contract with AZ. Hardly elite and he was so impressive that Josh McCown was named the starter during the season even after Warner had recovered from an injury. And Brees was coming off shoulder surgery and was another question mark. In addition, his salary demands kept other teams from signing him (we reportedly had interest in Brees as well).

Can you tell me the last time a team signed an "elite" QB and won? I'm talking about a top tier QB who was successful. When has a team given up 2 first round picks for a franchise QB? Answer....it doesn't happen. Teams don't let their franchise walk regardless of the franchise tag and draft pick compensation.

 

[Galian Beast]

Your math is fuzzy, as is your reasoning. None of the QB's you mentioned were considered "elite" when they were picked up by other teams as FA's. Manning was coming off back/neck surgery and was a huge question mark and released by the Colts. Warner was benched in St. Louis and NY and had health issues. He signed a 1 year 4 million dollar contract with AZ. Hardly elite and he was so impressive that Josh McCown was named the starter during the season even after Warner had recovered from an injury. And Brees was coming off shoulder surgery and was another question mark. In addition, his salary demands kept other teams from signing him (we reportedly had interest in Brees as well).

Can you tell me the last time a team signed an "elite" QB and won? I'm talking about a top tier QB who was successful. When has a team given up 2 first round picks for a franchise QB? Answer....it doesn't happen. Teams don't let their franchise walk regardless of the franchise tag and draft pick compensation.

You're ridiculous Manning wasn't considered elite? How many teams bid to get him? Warner was on a team that imploded but he still won multiple super bowls, he was considered elite. Drew Brees' numbers were top of the league....

Come back when you want to be serious.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Again, the current CBA doesn't give you the opportunity to groom QBs.

It's funny how people are so detached from reality and stuck in the past.

Really. Tell Green Bay that.

 

[Galian Beast]

Really. Tell Green Bay that.

Once again, Aaron Rodger's contract predates the current CBA...

What's wrong with you?

 

[Dodger12]

You're ridiculous Manning wasn't considered elite? How many teams bid to get him? Warner was on a team that imploded but he still won multiple super bowls, he was considered elite. Drew Brees' numbers were top of the league....

Come back when you want to be serious.

Teams don't release "elite" QB's. Sorry, your definition of elite is not the same as the GM's of the teams that let these folks go. Elite QB's don't sign for 1 year 4 million dollars and get benched for Josh McCown.

Manning had a ton of health questions and QB strapped teams were willing to take a chance. It worked out.

Brees got the franchise tag in 2005 the year before he signed with NO, just as Manning (I believe) got the franchise tag the year prior to his surgery. No takers that I'm aware of which should surprise you since Rivers was already drafted when SD tagged Brees. They would have given up Brees for 2 #1 picks. No one took them up on the offer.

And Brees finished his last year at 9 and 7 with an 89 QB rating. If you consider that, along with his shoulder surgery (which Miami doctors didn't clear) "elite" then you have a whole new definition that I'm unaware of.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I think in today's NFL, you're going to find a quality replacement like in the first round, maybe the 2nd round or a UDFA or maybe a 7th round pick.

I think the 3rd to 6th rounds, you're almost guaranteed to be looking at backup talents.

The QB position is analyzed so fiercly that it is probably analyzed quite accurately for most QB's. If you are drafted in the 4th round, then it is apparent that you have too strong of limitations to prevent you from becoming a franchise QB.

I would even be skeptical of 2nd round talent, but some may fall thru the cracks like Gregory did.

Other than that, you are probably better off finding a small school UDFA that is talented, but played small college ball for unknown reasons. Having seen video of Kurt Warner in HS, he had the talent and skills to play major D-1 ball, but located in small town Iowa and all of the teams around that area using option style offenses, he was the odd man out. Then he went to Northern Iowa where he sat behind the all time No. Iowa passing leader.

Romo was more of a basketball player than a football player in HS, owned all of the Eastern Illinois records, but wasn't invited to actually participate in the combine and scouts doubted his size and him playing at a small school.

Brady fell thru the cracks because he had to compete with Drew Henson and it actually made him a better QB. But his combine #'s were terrible and he slipped to the 6th round.

So to me, I think we're more likely to find somebody like Dustin Vaughn (small college QB) to become a franchise QB than say, Bryce Petty who was drafted in the 4th round. So we better prepare to make way for a 1st round pick, soon.

The good news is that I think that if Jones, Collins and Gregory all work out...it just gives us better odds of being able to draft a 1st round QB, having him sit out a year or two, and not having it kill our season.




YR

 

[YosemiteSam]

Once again, Aaron Rodger's contract predates the current CBA...

What's wrong with you?

I'm fat!

 

[burmafrd]

I think in today's NFL, you're going to find a quality replacement like in the first round, maybe the 2nd round or a UDFA or maybe a 7th round pick.

I think the 3rd to 6th rounds, you're almost guaranteed to be looking at backup talents.

The QB position is analyzed so fiercly that it is probably analyzed quite accurately for most QB's. If you are drafted in the 4th round, then it is apparent that you have too strong of limitations to prevent you from becoming a franchise QB.

I would even be skeptical of 2nd round talent, but some may fall thru the cracks like Gregory did.

Other than that, you are probably better off finding a small school UDFA that is talented, but played small college ball for unknown reasons. Having seen video of Kurt Warner in HS, he had the talent and skills to play major D-1 ball, but located in small town Iowa and all of the teams around that area using option style offenses, he was the odd man out. Then he went to Northern Iowa where he sat behind the all time No. Iowa passing leader.

Romo was more of a basketball player than a football player in HS, owned all of the Eastern Illinois records, but wasn't invited to actually participate in the combine and scouts doubted his size and him playing at a small school.

Brady fell thru the cracks because he had to compete with Drew Henson and it actually made him a better QB. But his combine #'s were terrible and he slipped to the 6th round.

So to me, I think we're more likely to find somebody like Dustin Vaughn (small college QB) to become a franchise QB than say, Bryce Petty who was drafted in the 4th round. So we better prepare to make way for a 1st round pick, soon.

The good news is that I think that if Jones, Collins and Gregory all work out...it just gives us better odds of being able to draft a 1st round QB, having him sit out a year or two, and not having it kill our season.




YR

Brady, Romo and Warner are such one offs that trying to extrapolate anything from their cases is stupid.They were the equivalents of winning the lottery- nothing more.

Bottom line is that you get your franchize QB in todays NFL in the first rd or at the very least the second round, early. That is the only way that has any kind of decent odds.

 

[Galian Beast]

Brady, Romo and Warner are such one offs that trying to extrapolate anything from their cases is stupid.They were the equivalents of winning the lottery- nothing more.

Bottom line is that you get your franchize QB in todays NFL in the first rd or at the very least the second round, early. That is the only way that has any kind of decent odds.

Again... not sure why you're reading things and only seeing what you want to see.

I'm not saying to rely on UDFA or late rounds, I'm not saying to rely on a free agent pick up or a trade. I'm saying you have to keep all your options available to you, but the last thing you want to do is simply draft a quarterback in the first round and wish for the best. If a player you believe in comes along, draft him, but don't draft him just to draft him.

 

[Cowboyz88]

And yeah, if you looked at the rate of getting an elite free agent QB versus drafting them in the 1st, you would see a higher success rate... again, math isn't your strong suit is it?

Name one. Elite.

Not an on the street FA. Not a QB with injury concerns. Perfectly healthy and elite, in which a team gave up two first round picks as compensation.

Name one. One.

 

[xwalker]

Wow, a lot of named calling (direct or indirect) by you in this thread.

According to you nobody can read or debate and all responses you don't like are Strawman arguments.

If you think somebody does not understand your point, you can't conceive that maybe you're not doing a very good job of making the point in the 1st place.

I think a lot of you missed the point.

The point is that drafted a quarterback prematurely doesn't help us, and doesn't make us more secure. You draft a quarterback when you think Romo can't go anymore or you sign one in free agency.

Reading is important. When Green Bay drafted Rodgers they signed him to a 6 year contract. This was before the current CBA which limits contracts to 4 years with a pricey 5th year option.

Can you name a single quarterback who has sat for a year or two and was groomed since Rodgers and since the new CBA?

Reading is important. Aaron Rodgers predates this current CBA had a 6 year rookie deal. Won the Super Bowl on his rookie salary.

Straw man argument.

I would either

a) Draft a QB a year or two before Romo retires
b) Sign a free agent QB, even if they are franchised
c) Trade up in the draft for a QB when the time is right

It mostly depends on Romo's ability to continue performing and it depends on who is in the draft and in free agency at the time.

Another straw man, who said anything about Dalton. I'm just saying what are better options than blindly drafting a quarterback in round one. I'd much rather go after a veteran QB who's team isn't trying to pay him. Very well could happen for a team and Russell Wilson.

That new QB would be ready to take over? NFL Draft history shows that they are more likely to not be ready, and worse, they would be more expensive given their rookie contract would be up.

Going back to the well? Now you want to draft yet another quarterback, taking MORE resources away for Romo, the actual franchise qb...

Nonsensical indeed.

When you assume an argument for someone that they never made, just because it is easier to defeat that argument, that is a straw man.

I never said finding a future qb was a binary situation. I think there are many avenues, but I think one of the worst is drafting a guy while Romo is still extremely productive.

There is no logic in straw man arguments. You should work on that.

When you assume someone's argument that they didn't make... that's a straw man argument. You can look it up.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on false representation of an opponent's argument.[1] To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.

The so-called typical "attacking a straw man" argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition.[2][3]

Are they teaching debating skills in school anymore?

I never made any of those assertions.

I was pretty clear, sorry. If you're missing what I said, you either aren't trying or you have poor reading comprehension. Either way I can't help you... either way.

Wrong again, please actually read what I said rather than coming to your own conclusion.

That is a misconception. That's how we get mob rule by the foolish.

A lot of people in this topic understood perfectly, however those with an agenda seemed to ignore what I said entirely.

People seem to still be having problems reading.

I'm saying unless it looks like Romo is falling apart or decides to hang it up, I'm not going into any year saying this is the year I have to get a QB because of any random timetable that I've come up with that isn't based on any thing medical, person, or performance-wise relating to Romo.

I think you need to keep an eye out for veteran players who might become free agents or might fall out of favor with their teams. I also think you have to keep an eye on draft classes to see what sort of quarterbacks are out there. I also think you need to pick up quarterbacks late in the draft or through UDFA as appropriate. I also think you should try to bank an extra first round draft pick going forward by trading down one year. I also wouldn't be afraid to go after a franchised quarterback, especially one coming off their rookie contract.

What I don't suggest is a good idea however is just drafting a qb in rd 1-3 because you think romo only has a year or two left... Quite possibly the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

I didn't even say I wouldn't draft someone in the first. Please learn how to read. I said I wouldn't do it just to do it, which appears to be the motto of many here.

And yes, I'd be more willing to invest two first round draft picks in someone who is a sure thing, rather than taking the risk of drafting someone in the first. Again, please check the statistics on that, you don't seem do be good with reading or math...

None of the quarterbacks you mentioned are going to be franchised, and what makes you think you would blindly try to sign one of them?

Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning both took new teams to the super bowl... and as you said Brees won it. And yeah, if you looked at the rate of getting an elite free agent QB versus drafting them in the 1st, you would see a higher success rate... again, math isn't your strong suit is it?

You're ridiculous Manning wasn't considered elite? How many teams bid to get him? Warner was on a team that imploded but he still won multiple super bowls, he was considered elite. Drew Brees' numbers were top of the league....

Come back when you want to be serious.

Once again, Aaron Rodger's contract predates the current CBA...

What's wrong with you?

Again... not sure why you're reading things and only seeing what you want to see.

I'm not saying to rely on UDFA or late rounds, I'm not saying to rely on a free agent pick up or a trade. I'm saying you have to keep all your options available to you, but the last thing you want to do is simply draft a quarterback in the first round and wish for the best. If a player you believe in comes along, draft him, but don't draft him just to draft him.

 

[Alexander]

Again, the current CBA doesn't give you the opportunity to groom QBs.

It's funny how people are so detached from reality and stuck in the past.

Sure it does. If you do it the right way.

What needs to change is the method of grooming. In other words, quit trying to re-invent players and mold around them. The Seahawks took Wilson and fit in around him, they didn't try to change him, they developed their system around the player, finding out what he does best. If a team is flexible, you can still "develop" a QB, but it is more about the program around them than them maturing into the program.

 

[maxdallasfan]

A QB is either ready or not ready to start. Simple.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Don't worry about him xwalker. He can't see past all of his illogical assumptions.

It's like arguing with a sign. No matter how great of an argument that you make, the sign will always say the same thing.

 

[starfrombirth]

Cutler is better than the vast majority of QBs that are drafted in the first round and he realizes the difficulty of finding a franchise guy.

Ummm... no he isn't and never has been. He has a cannon arm. That's all.

 

[Galian Beast]

Ummm... no he isn't and never has been. He has a cannon arm. That's all.

Top 10 top 15 QB name the ones that are better than him.

 

[Galian Beast]

Sure it does. If you do it the right way.

What needs to change is the method of grooming. In other words, quit trying to re-invent players and mold around them. The Seahawks took Wilson and fit in around him, they didn't try to change him, they developed their system around the player, finding out what he does best. If a team is flexible, you can still "develop" a QB, but it is more about the program around them than them maturing into the program.

Seahawks didn't sit Wilson. He started right away. Next?