Firehawk's Newman Challenge

[DallasEast]

I'm intelligence by trade, I derive a certain pleasure in studying people I dislike.

I haven't seen anyone with this much of a hard-on for someone they didn't like since Ice-T in New Jack City.

 

[Green28]

Wouldn't it be easier to just become a Cowboys fan and enjoy a good season of football?

It's not like he'll be going out of his way...aren't 13 or 14 of the Boys' games on ESPN or NBC?!

 

[Hostile]

It's not like he'll be going out of his way...aren't 13 or 14 of the Boys' games on ESPN or NBC?!

I believe it's more like 6 or 7, but thank you for telling us about your green eyes.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I believe it's more like 6 or 7, but thank you for telling us about your brown eyes.

fixed

 

[TEK2000]

Firehawk,

This is my honest opinion... football fan to football fan.

I really think you're setting yourself up for frustration and dissapointment.
For example, Cowboys fans can't even decide whether it was Aaron Glenn or Roy Williams who should be blamed for the 2 TD's Moss scored in Game 1 of the Skins/Boys games in 2005.
So, there's no way that you'll get many people to agree with your assessment of so many stats that based on your opinions of the play.

Commanders fans themselves dismiss STATS LLC, KC Joyner, and FootballOutsiders.com stats based purely on the idea that their stats gathering is "subjective" and inaccurate. See the KC Joyner: Newman Overated thread at es.com in the Around the NFL forum.

I admire your intentions though. I tried to do something similar to this, though mine was much less extensive, last season for a comparison of Roy Williams and Sean Taylor. I was hoping to find a Commanders fan that was familiar enough with the game of football as well as not being blatantly biased to track how many TD's Taylor allowed. Well, after the first 4 or 5 games, it fell to the way side and we lost track of the stats.

Anyway, in order to REALLY prove something with all this time you're going to spend, you'd better be ready to post video footage to support your breakdown of the plays. Because, someone like me (for example) that keeps each Cowboys game readily available for clip editting will be ready to pounce on anything we disagree with... and will be ready to support our argument with video footage.

By the way, it will take WAY WAY WAY longer than just 1 hour to breakdown each game if you're planning on doing multiple players. If you stuck to defensive players only it would cut your time consumption in half... trying to do QB's, RB, DB's, TE's, etc. etc. will be EXTREMELY time consuming because you'll have to be reviewing each player through each play and noting every stat you plan to track.
This is what guys like FootballOutsiders.com, KC Joyner, and STATS LLC do and even then fans dismiss them.. despite the fact that lots of their information is, in many cases, about as accurate as you could expect it to be from amateur (non-coach) examiners.

 

[Sarge]

Once we shore up a semblance of a pass rush, Newman doubters will be hard to find.

 

[dogunwo]

Firehawk,

This is my honest opinion... football fan to football fan.

I really think you're setting yourself up for frustration and dissapointment.
For example, Cowboys fans can't even decide whether it was Aaron Glenn or Roy Williams who should be blamed for the 2 TD's Moss scored in Game 1 of the Skins/Boys games in 2005.
So, there's no way that you'll get many people to agree with your assessment of so many stats that based on your opinions of the play.

Commanders fans themselves dismiss STATS LLC, KC Joyner, and FootballOutsiders.com stats based purely on the idea that their stats gathering is "subjective" and inaccurate. See the KC Joyner: Newman Overated thread at es.com in the Around the NFL forum.

I admire your intentions though. I tried to do something similar to this, though mine was much less extensive, last season for a comparison of Roy Williams and Sean Taylor. I was hoping to find a Commanders fan that was familiar enough with the game of football as well as not being blatantly biased to track how many TD's Taylor allowed. Well, after the first 4 or 5 games, it fell to the way side and we lost track of the stats.

Anyway, in order to REALLY prove something with all this time you're going to spend, you'd better be ready to post video footage to support your breakdown of the plays. Because, someone like me (for example) that keeps each Cowboys game readily available for clip editting will be ready to pounce on anything we disagree with... and will be ready to support our argument with video footage.

By the way, it will take WAY WAY WAY longer than just 1 hour to breakdown each game if you're planning on doing multiple players. If you stuck to defensive players only it would cut your time consumption in half... trying to do QB's, RB, DB's, TE's, etc. etc. will be EXTREMELY time consuming because you'll have to be reviewing each player through each play and noting every stat you plan to track.
This is what guys like FootballOutsiders.com, KC Joyner, and STATS LLC do and even then fans dismiss them.. despite the fact that lots of their information is, in many cases, about as accurate as you could expect it to be from amateur (non-coach) examiners.

This was a well thought out and explained post. Good job son.

 

[Zaxor]

Once we shore up a semblance of a pass rush, Newman doubters will be hard to find.

bingo

 

[DallasEast]

Once we shore up a semblance of a pass rush, Newman doubters will be hard to find.

 

[DallasCowpoke]

In an effort to find middle ground and settle the debate that is raging in like 8 different threads, here's my offer to you.

Next season, I'm going to personally record every Cowboys game and track Newman on each one. I will write a short summary on each pass play, including ones he didn't get thrown at and post it on here at the end of the season. I will include the area of the field (flats, med and deep) and the side (sidelines, hashmarks and dead middle) and who caught it under what circumstances (was it in the beginning of the game, was it a hail mary, etc...)

I will then summarize it all in multiple ways. First a general summary, he gave up X passes for X yards and X TDs. Then I will summarize it by area of the field, first distance (he gave up X short passes for X yards, and so on) and then place (sidelines, hashmarks or dead middle) and then by quarter. And then finally by receiver, by quarter.

I will also look at passes where the receiver was obviously wide open and didn't get the ball thrown his way or the ball was over/underthrown or dropped (think TO's big drop the second Skins game) and by no means is it Newman's success and include those.

I will compare him to Henry, Springs and Rogers or Smoot (depending on who starts for the skins) and we can figure out, relatively, how much better/worse Newman did in comparison and can compare him relatively. Is that fair enough for you?

I have directv with a DVR, so theres no reason why I should miss one, but be patient with me because it's going to take some time.

Until then, I will not say one more word on Newman. Does it sound fair enough to you?

I have a question. Since on roughly 50% of the plays, especially those that go away from a specific side of the field, they don't show what happened on that side, how are you going to "track" what you can't/don't see?