First diagnosed case of Ebola in the U.S. *Patient dies*

[MonsterD]

Some scientists disagree with your definitive opinion.

There are always going to be someone trying to figure out another angle another possibility, that doesn't make it reality. The people I would want to ask are the medical personnel in the field in Africa.

 

[BlindFaith]

There are always going to be someone trying to figure out another angle another possibility, that doesn't make it reality. The people I would want to ask are the medical personnel in the field in Africa.

No offense, but I prefer to form an opinion based on scientific study and by the conclusions of scientists based on those studies.

New York Times: Some May Carry Ebola Without Showing Any Symptoms
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...-may-carry-ebola-without-showing-any-symptoms

An immediate effect is to raise the need to reassess health policy about one of the most virulent viruses known and to determine how often healthy carriers transmit it, said the scientific team headed by Dr. E. M. Leroy of Franceville, Gabon.
***
Dr. Leroy’s team studied 25 individuals who never developed symptoms although they lived with family members and cared for them without using gloves and other precautions in two outbreaks in Gabon in 1996.

Using standard virologic techniques, the scientists from Gabon, Germany and France said they could not detect the virus in the blood of the healthy contacts. But Dr. Leroy’s succeeded by using a technique known as polymerase chain reaction to grow the tiny amount of virus present.

But Western governments and scientists have repeatedly said that Ebola carriers can only infect others if they are showing symptoms. So they need to adjust their strategies to account for potential contagion from people who aren’t showing any symptoms.

Two national experts on infectious disease transmission – both professors in the School of Public Health, Division of Environmental and Occupational Health Sciences, at the University of Illinois at Chicago – report that Ebola can be transmitted by aerosols … i.e. fluids mixed with air.

 

[MonsterD]

No offense, but I prefer to form an opinion based on scientific study and by the conclusions of scientists based on those studies.
.

You are cherry picking from that first one here is one thing that is true from it.

Balog explained to WND much of the fundamental research on Ebola, including the conditions under which asymptomatic carriers of the disease can infect others, has yet to be conducted and reported in peer-reviewed medical journals.

That means there is no evidence that it exists for Ebola as much as they are trying to say it could be possible. Other viruses do exhibit the trait, this one hasn't yet.

 

[MonsterD]

No offense, but I prefer to form an opinion based on scientific study and by the conclusions of scientists based on those studies.

.

Scientifically I could tell you about how life is possible outside of the Earth, so what??

 

[BlindFaith]

Balog explained to WND much of the fundamental research on Ebola, including the conditions under which asymptomatic carriers of the disease can infect others, has yet to be conducted and reported in peer-reviewed medical journals.

That means there is no evidence that it exists for Ebola as much as they are trying to say it could be possible. Other viruses do exhibit the trait, this one hasn't yet.

It means it hasn't been tested. Yet the CDC is making a definitive statement that you can only get it from someone exhibiting symptoms. That is dangerous and irresponsible.

 

[BlindFaith]

Scientifically I could tell you about how life is possible outside of the Earth, so what??

And your point? Are you also saying you don't believe that there is life outside of that observed on Earth?

 

[MonsterD]

It means it hasn't been tested. Yet the CDC is making a definitive statement that you can only get it from someone exhibiting symptoms. That is dangerous and irresponsible.

He achieved a result he made in a lab, great and it is not tested it does not mean it is happening. I thought you said you were done in this thread? Like Brainpaint said you have not proven anything.

But here is the deal, other scientist and medical experts obviously know of this study and will expand on it. In the mean time how responsible of the CDC would it have been to say that it is contagious without symptoms even if that has never been seen and not proven true?

 

[MonsterD]

And your point? Are you also saying you don't believe that there is life outside of that observed on Earth?

Doesn't matter if I believe it or not, never been proven.

 

[BlindFaith]

He achieved a result he made in a lab, great and it is not tested it does not mean it is happening. I thought you said you were done in this thread? Like Brainpaint said you have not proven anything.

But here is the deal, other scientist and medical experts obviously know of this study and will expand on it. In the mean time how responsible of the CDC would it have been to say that it is contagious without symptoms even if that has never been seen and not proven true?

My momma always said, better safe than sorry.

And when I see misinformation being spread, like you can only get Ebola from touching someone showing symptoms or eating dead monkeys that have it, I feel compelled to share published articles by leading scientists in the field of virus research stating that it is probably much easier to get than that.

 

[BlindFaith]

Doesn't matter if I believe it or not, never been proven.

But you at least admit its a probability. Not dismissing it entirely or telling everyone that there is no way there could be life because there isn't direct evidence. What is being told to us by the CDC, I feel, is not the entire truth. And that entire truth is very hard to test because it means using real life human beings.

Testing in monkeys and pigs show it can be transmitted airborne.

Other viruses very similar Ebola can be transmitted without the patient showing signs of symptoms.

That alone is should be enough for the CDC to tighten its procedures on handling of Ebola patients. And even more clearly so since the two nurses have contracted the virus from patients, all the while following the CDC recommended procedures.

 

[MonsterD]

My momma always said, better safe than sorry.

And when I see misinformation being spread, like you can only get Ebola from touching someone showing symptoms or eating dead monkeys that have it, I feel compelled to share published articles by leading scientists in the field of virus research stating that it is probably much easier to get than that.

It is good that the scientist work on hypothesis and question with testing and observation, that is part of what needs to take place. Now we still have to go along with what all the evidence has said so far,the CDC or all the cumulative virologist, medical personnel, health care workers, and yes scientist too are observing and saying, they are not saying they see it being contagious w/o symptoms, they are seeing what is happening. One guy with a forced lab result is fine, but I still am going to go with the facts as they are presented.

 

[MonsterD]

But you at least admit its a probability. Not dismissing it entirely or telling everyone that there is no way there could be life because there isn't direct evidence. What is being told to us by the CDC, I feel, is not the entire truth. And that entire truth is very hard to test because it means using real life human beings.

Testing in monkeys and pigs show it can be transmitted airborne.

Other viruses very similar Ebola can be transmitted without the patient showing signs of symptoms.

That alone is should be enough for the CDC to tighten its procedures on handling of Ebola patients. And even more clearly so since the two nurses have contracted the virus from patients, all the while following the CDC recommended procedures.

When we see it in humans then we will know. A lot more focus is on this one virus, but I remember learning back 20 years ago that there are probably more potent and virulent viruses in the jungles and that this type of thing can happen again, so how do you prepare?

 

[joseephuss]

Okay. I'm certainly no doctor. It was more of a hypothetical. You go to Europe thinking it's relatively modern and equivalent in health/safety/security to USA. You get on a plane to head home. Through random seat assignment you're packed in an metal tube next to an ebola carrier from West Africa for 9 hours.

That said, sure, based on available evidence people aren't contagious until they exhibit symptoms...until there's new evidence. A virus gets introduced into a new ecosystem that hasn't evolved alongside it and developed the necessary antibodies. Doesn't seem implausible that the virus might behave atypically.

It seems to me that it is spread when a person is showing symptoms because that is the time frame in which the person is most likely to spew bodily fluids on someone else. If the patient is asymptomatic they aren't likely to be coughing or sneezing on someone. Or sweating profusly, or vomiting or anything else that is usually correlated with the symptoms. They probably still are contagious, but they aren't producing secretions that can get onto another person to transport the virus. That is why I wonder about the possible spread through sexual content. There is an exchange of bodily fluids at that time whether the person is showing symptoms or not.

 

[Doc50]

Viruses frequently evolve...

When news broke that the Ebola virus had resurfaced in Uganda, investigators in Canada were making headlines of their own with research indicating the deadly virus may spread between species, through the air.

The team, comprised of researchers from the National Centre for Foreign Animal Disease, the University of Manitoba, and the Public Health Agency of Canada, observed transmission of Ebola from pigs to monkeys. They first inoculated a number of piglets with the Zaire strain of the Ebola virus. Ebola-Zaire is the deadliest strain, with mortality rates up to 90 percent. The piglets were then placed in a room with four cynomolgus macaques, a species of monkey commonly used in laboratories. The animals were separated by wire cages to prevent direct contact between the species.

Within a few days, the inoculated piglets showed clinical signs of infection indicative of Ebola infection. In pigs, Ebola generally causes respiratory illness and increased temperature. Nine days after infection, all piglets appeared to have recovered from the disease.

Within eight days of exposure, two of the four monkeys showed signs of Ebola infection. Four days later, the remaining two monkeys were sick too. It is possible that the first two monkeys infected the other two, but transmission between non-human primates has never before been observed in a lab setting.

While the study provided evidence that transmission of Ebola between species is possible, researchers still cannot say for certain how that transmission actually occurred. There are three likely candidates for the route of transmission: airborne, droplet, or fomites.

- See more at: http://healthmap.org/site/diseaseda...ola-goes-airborne-112112#sthash.KwBhsCIj.dpuf​

Yes, and airborne is extremely unlikely.

Your example would be like saying that AIDS can evolve and spread via the air.

The ebola virus requires direct contact, fluid to tissue.

The thing that makes containment difficult, is that in its acute and infective stage, the patient sheds billions of virons through profuse perspiration, projectile emesis, and explosive diarrhea. Those in direct contact have a distinct challenge just getting out of their protective suits.

The virus is not shed until the acute phase begins. Therefore, passengers on the plane with Mr. Duncan were not at risk; similarly, we don't need to fear public exposure with unknown "carriers"

 

[MonsterD]

Yes, and airborne is extremely unlikely.

Your example would be like saying that AIDS can evolve and spread via the air.

The ebola virus requires direct contact, fluid to tissue.

The thing that makes containment difficult, is that in its acute and infective stage, the patient sheds billions of virons through profuse perspiration, projectile emesis, and explosive diarrhea. Those in direct contact have a distinct challenge just getting out of their protective suits.

The virus is not shed until the acute phase begins. Therefore, passengers on the plane with Mr. Duncan were not at risk; similarly, we don't need to fear public exposure with unknown "carriers"

Hey Doc I have a question about the nurse who contracted it. You mention the protective gear, when she takes it off I assume there is a chronological routine in the undress of it, is that where the protocol was broken?
I haven't read up on any of it but there is also procedures for equipment etc. but my first thought was how she took off her protection would be the most likely way.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This is a very interesting article. Mentions facts that I have not heard reported widely.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eb...70-percent-who-says-dire-new-forecast-n209226

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

This is a very interesting article. Mentions facts that I have not heard reported widely.


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/eb...70-percent-who-says-dire-new-forecast-n209226

This kind of craziness does not help...

Some Ebola-Stricken African Families Pay Bribes for Fake Death Records

MONROVIA, Liberia—Some of the teams sent to retrieve bodies of suspected Ebola victims here are collecting cash instead, allegedly accepting bribes to issue death certificates to families saying their loved ones died of other causes and leaving the body, locals and health workers say.

It is a troubling development for an outbreak in which dead bodies are a major source of contagion and one that suggests local corruption could help undermine the international effort to contain the virus.


Rest of article... http://online.wsj.com/articles/some...-pay-bribes-for-fake-death-records-1413153854

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This kind of craziness does not help...

Some Ebola-Stricken African Families Pay Bribes for Fake Death Records

MONROVIA, Liberia—Some of the teams sent to retrieve bodies of suspected Ebola victims here are collecting cash instead, allegedly accepting bribes to issue death certificates to families saying their loved ones died of other causes and leaving the body, locals and health workers say.

It is a troubling development for an outbreak in which dead bodies are a major source of contagion and one that suggests local corruption could help undermine the international effort to contain the virus.


Rest of article... http://online.wsj.com/articles/some...-pay-bribes-for-fake-death-records-1413153854

Proof positive that at the end of the day (literally), nothing is mightier then then the almighty buck.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Proof positive that at the end of the day (literally), nothing is mightier then then the almighty buck.

The money is just one problem if that situation is accurate.

One side is doing it for the money, the other side is doing it to keep the family members for traditional burial.

Both sides are making it worse for everybody...especially in an area already over run with the problem.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The money is just one problem if that situation is accurate.

One side is doing it for the money, the other side is doing it to keep the family members for traditional burial.

Both sides are making it worse for everybody...especially in an area already over run with the problem.

I agree.