Fish Show: 2 Scouts say Cowboys coaches asking too much of Dak

[MountaineerCowboy]

oh, you have nothing else so you pick on grammatical errors.
really Dakky Poo!? really!!!

you dug yourself that hole buddy. dig your way out of it! grow up

What else would I pick about?

You're a Dak fan. That automatically makes you a no nothing.

 

[starfrombirth]

The problem with your position is that there have to be many different scenario's/working parts needed to fall into place....however there isn't one team that fit's them all.
A) Which condending team would want Dak on a one year deal.... and pay draft capital to get him?
B) Best fit ....possibly Raiders, where he'd have to learn the offense and quickly....as their running game's worse than ours. They arent signing over draft capital for one year imo.
C) He's probably not signing an extension if he's traded as conceivably there are teams that won't want him in 2024, but may well be in the market in 2025: Detroit, Miami and Dallas..... so he's not going to extend with the teams that'll probably want him in 2024.
He may be able to go all the way, however, there isn't an team in that scenario that'll want him in 2024.

I'm not in the building so I don't know for sure, but if Dak and the team work together to find a team that fits the bill .... a sign and trade deal could be made. Just because Dak and the team MAY have agreed to part doesn't mean that there has to be bad feelings. Jerry has been a god send for Dak and he knows it. It's entirely possible that he doesn't believe Jerry is screwing him over and will work to the benefit of both. Like I said, I don't know for sure but this scenario seems more likely to me than one where Dak is trying to get one over on the team. As I said earlier, Dak believes he is a top tier qb and might be willing to go somewhere that has a chance to compete and he gets to continue his quest for a superbowl while still helping the team that made him one of the richest people in the country.

 

[CATCH17]

Dak’s not a big game player..

Duh….

Like how any of you can argue for the guy at this point is ridiculous. He’s gave you no leg to stand on.


If your goal is to win a championship then you can’t do it with Dak and his contract demands. It’s just not possible.

 

[CowboyoWales]

He would still falter when difficulty arose. It's who he is.

Yep, I suppose the question remains.....what else does Dak need. If it's a running game (to open up the secondary), a run defense (to give him more time to get back in the game), a secondary (after all it wasnt the run Defense killed us vrs GB, it was the secondary), or an upgrade at WR2......what we're actually saying is he needs a better team.

......even then ever play-off run requires a comeback and has he really got it in him to do that?

 

[CowboyoWales]

I'm not in the building so I don't know for sure, but if Dak and the team work together to find a team that fits the bill .... a sign and trade deal could be made.

Do you mean a trade and sign? If so that's the problem, there's no competing side that would give Draft Capital and a contract extension when they're all set at QB in 2024.

Im not in the building either, but I can make an educated guess on the details that's out there.

As I said earlier, Dak believes he is a top tier qb and might be willing to go somewhere that has a chance to compete and he gets to continue his quest for a superbowl while still helping the team that made him one of the richest people in the country.

As above, there's no realistic team that would give Draft Capital AND are in a position to compete in 2024.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

What else would I pick about?

You're a Dak fan. That automatically makes you a no nothing.

Oh, you and your labels. How cute. How childish as I said. So thanks for proving me right. On cue. Predictable.

If someone doesn't incessantly non-stop criticize dak, in your simpleton mind they are a Dak fan. That's the simple mind set of someone who can only think in black and white.

.what are you going to do when Dak is gone? Your entire existence is predicated on Dak being here.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Oh, you and your labels. How cute. How childish as I said. So thanks for proving me right. On cue. Predictable.

If someone doesn't incessantly non-stop criticize dak, in your simpleton mind they are a Dak fan. That's the simple mind set of someone who can only think in black and white.

.what are you going to do when Dak is gone? Your entire existence is predicated on Dak being here.

Well, you won't be here anymore when Dak is gone so I guess you'll never know.

Enjoy your new team next year, bro!

 

[jaythecowboy]

As @Bullflop is alluding to, the Dak issue is around the anxiety (which is enhanced during stressful situations of: clawing back large deficits or clock running down and no margin for error). Now money doesnt help with roster 'per se' as it's not weapons that he needs, but he needs a running game and/or a Defense that can keep us in the game whilst he regains composure.

The problem is that even then Dak still has to perform, the ball is still in his hand and whilst Dak Regardless fans like to ignore it.....the 2 SF Play-off loses, whilst the team didnt play well. DAK DID HAVE 4/5 DRIVES LATE IN THE 4TH Q to win it.

Your last sentence......dont conflict the FO and Dak situations as being either/or BOTH ARE AT FAULY, they are mutually inclusive in the game of blame.

We don’t know any hard numbers about this negotiation vs the last one but I can’t put much fault with any players because the Cowboys always drag their feet on contracts and make middling offers to their star players. This has been a thing for years and the Jones’ have even admitted they wait till the last minute to get deals done. So they end up overpaying for the player or they leave and you just get a comp pick for them.

The Eagles traded Wentz for a 1st and 2nd round pick after two bad seasons and they are still reaping the benefits of that trade with the draft capital they’ve been able to accumulate. If the Cowboys believe in their draft model so much they should either be locking these players down longterm asap or trading for picks. If they believe in their draft model so much they should have already drafted a potential Dak successor. The Cowboys traded for Trey Lance and there is a good chance never play a regular season snap before becoming a free agent.

As for the SF games we had never had an effective run game vs them so it’s all been on Dak offensively. Dak didnt have great game but they were in position to win. Dak made a great throw under pressure that would have extended the game but Cedrick Wilson didnt catch it.

 

[CowboyoWales]

As for the SF games we had never had an effective run game vs them so it’s all been on Dak offensively. Dak didnt have great game but they were in position to win. Dak made a great throw under pressure that would have extended the game but Cedrick Wilson didnt catch it.

Stop being a One-Eyed Dak fan.....regardless of the the run game (Offense and Defense), Dak the ball on 4/5 occasions spread between the two games..... nows there's always reasons and blame, but the bottom line is that he had the ball and we failed. Just as in the CeeDee drop vrs GB, Dak just cant let it go, he crumbles.

If the Cowboys believe in their draft model so much they should either be locking these players down longterm asap or trading for picks. If they believe in their draft model so much they should have already drafted a potential Dak successor. The Cowboys traded for Trey Lance and there is a good chance never play a regular season snap before becoming a free agent.

Yeah, Jerry's awful at running the franchise, but that doesnt excuse Dak.....indeed Dak's the beneficiary of Jerry's incompetency.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Stop being a One-Eyed Dak fan.....regardless of the the run game (Offense and Defense), Dak the ball on 4/5 occasions spread between the two games..... nows there's always reasons and blame, but the bottom line is that he had the ball and we failed. Just as in the CeeDee drop vrs GB, Dak just cant let it go, he crumbles.

Yeah, Jerry's awful at running the franchise, but that doesnt excuse Dak.....indeed Dak's the beneficiary of Jerry's incompetency.

I’m not excusing Daks play. I acknowledge Dak’s limitations. I just still think he is worth a market rate contract and believe it is on the front office and coaching staff to put him in the best position to win. For the most part I dont think they’ve done that. Whether it’s the lack of free agents, bad contracts to their own players, playing vets over younger guys who are better options, questionable playcalling and in-game strategy, etc. I think the team can win with Dak but if they aren’t going to correct those other issues then there is no point giving him a contract. But even if the Cowboys let Dak go and had a rookie on a cheap deal I doubt they load the team up then. They’ll just pay Tyler Smith and Daron Bland and then start crying broke again.

 

[DandyDon52]

I'm not in the building so I don't know for sure, but if Dak and the team work together to find a team that fits the bill .... a sign and trade deal could be made. Just because Dak and the team MAY have agreed to part doesn't mean that there has to be bad feelings. Jerry has been a god send for Dak and he knows it. It's entirely possible that he doesn't believe Jerry is screwing him over and will work to the benefit of both. Like I said, I don't know for sure but this scenario seems more likely to me than one where Dak is trying to get one over on the team. As I said earlier, Dak believes he is a top tier qb and might be willing to go somewhere that has a chance to compete and he gets to continue his quest for a superbowl while still helping the team that made him one of the richest people in the country.

This could have been done before FA, but now teams already got their qb.
As for giving draft picks for dak, it is too late for that as well, most teams would rather wait and see if he becomes a FA, as then
they dont lose any draft picks.

A situation might come up during the season though if a qb gets hurt or flops , but does jerry really want to trade dak?
I think he wants him but just at a cheaper price.

 

[DandyDon52]

I think the team can win with Dak but if they aren’t going to correct those other issues then there is no point giving him a contract.

That is a key issue, why pay dak unless your making a serious SB run?
Maybe for marketing reasons they will but otherwise it doesnt make sense.
Bringing elliot back as rb1, losing all the guys, no notable FA , just makes this season a waste.

Not just dallas but most teams cant afford to pay dak what he wants, and still field a competitive team.

 

[CowboyStar88]

As @Bullflop is alluding to, the Dak issue is around the anxiety (which is enhanced during stressful situations of: clawing back large deficits or clock running down and no margin for error). Now money doesnt help with roster 'per se' as it's not weapons that he needs, but he needs a running game and/or a Defense that can keep us in the game whilst he regains composure.

The problem is that even then Dak still has to perform, the ball is still in his hand and whilst Dak Regardless fans like to ignore it.....the 2 SF Play-off loses, whilst the team didnt play well. DAK DID HAVE 4/5 DRIVES LATE IN THE 4TH Q to win it.

Your last sentence......dont conflict the FO and Dak situations as being either/or BOTH ARE AT FAULY, they are mutually inclusive in the game of blame.

Just find me a QB that doesn’t need all of that. When we are at this point on a 9 year vet it’s time to move on.

 

[starfrombirth]

Do you mean a trade and sign? If so that's the problem, there's no competing side that would give Draft Capital and a contract extension when they're all set at QB in 2024.

Im not in the building either, but I can make an educated guess on the details that's out there.

As above, there's no realistic team that would give Draft Capital AND are in a position to compete in 2024.

You say that but Cleveland did something even more stupid with their qb (Desean Watson). Why would it be so different with Dak?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Well, you won't be here anymore when Dak is gone so I guess you'll never know.

Enjoy your new team next year, bro!

sure. aha...oookkk then...ahem...hmmm, yep...

 

[CowboyoWales]

You say that but Cleveland did something even more stupid with their qb (Desean Watson). Why would it be so different with Dak?

You've got a point about the Browns. The difference is that in the case of Watson he was forcing the trade.....if that scenario involved Dak I think he nixes it (because he's going to be asking for a contract that would make Deshaun's look reasonable and he'll want the the choice of destination).

 

[CowboyoWales]

I’m not excusing Daks play. I acknowledge Dak’s limitations. I just still think he is worth a market rate contract and believe it is on the front office and coaching staff to put him in the best position to win. For the most part I dont think they’ve done that. Whether it’s the lack of free agents, bad contracts to their own players, playing vets over younger guys who are better options, questionable playcalling and in-game strategy, etc. I think the team can win with Dak but if they aren’t going to correct those other issues then there is no point giving him a contract. But even if the Cowboys let Dak go and had a rookie on a cheap deal I doubt they load the team up then. They’ll just pay Tyler Smith and Daron Bland and then start crying broke again.

You are in part excusing Dak's play, as you're blaming: the FO, and Coaches (and by inference the rest of the roster) for not putting him in a position to win. and you're not answering the point about composure. There's no causal link to suggest that paying Dak more money will help him overcome the nerves/composure issue nor provide the CAP to improve those areas you think we're deficient in.

 

[jaythecowboy]

You are in part excusing Dak's play, as you're blaming: the FO, and Coaches (and by inference the rest of the roster) for not putting him in a position to win. and you're not answering the point about composure. There's no causal link to suggest that paying Dak more money will help him overcome the nerves/composure issue nor provide the CAP to improve those areas you think we're deficient in.

I dont think paying Dak will make him better. I just think he is worth it when you see what other qbs are getting. I agree that he gets rattled sometimes in games which is why having a strong defense and/or run game is important to mitigate that. Over the years the Cowboys have exacerbated the problem most of the time. I think that’s a big reason Kellen Moore is gone. Having a more consistent run game and/or better defense would take some of the pressure off Dak. There was a stat one year that the Cowboys were one of the worst teams on 1st and 2nd down and then Dak was consistently having to convert 3rd and longs to keep the drive going. It’s going to be hard for any qb to thrive off that.

 

[clff15701]

Dak isn’t good enough in big games when it matters most. You don’t spot the other team free points in big games and expect to win. Until we get an elite qb we will come up short with Jerry and Co. You can’t sit out FA and expect to win without a top flight QB. We spend the least amount of cash over a five year span and then expect a Top 10 QB to get us top 3 results. Dak simply isn’t built to do that. Under no circumstances should they pay him like a top 5 QB.

 

[DandyDon52]

The Eagles traded Wentz for a 1st and 2nd round pick after two bad seasons and they are still reaping the benefits of that trade with the draft capital they’ve been able to accumulate. If the Cowboys believe in their draft model so much they should either be locking these players down longterm asap or trading for picks. If they believe in their draft model so much they should have already drafted a potential Dak successor. The Cowboys traded for Trey Lance and there is a good chance never play a regular season snap before becoming a free agent.

Your right being a draft to build team, they need to do better trading players for picks.
Should have already drafted a qb that maybe could replace dak.

The eagles got a great deal trading wentz, Seattle did good trading wilson, houston rebuilt with picks from watson trade!
That is what dallas should be doing but they are too stupid !

We like our guys lol

They keep guys too long and never get top value for them. That is a major flaw in dallas , the jones boys dont get extra picks out of players
at least above the 5th round lol.

When was the last time dallas got a round 1 pick in a trade?? probably the jimmy walker trade way back in 89