Fish Show: 2 Scouts say Cowboys coaches asking too much of Dak

[jaythecowboy]

You've got to stop gaslighting and making up false assumptions and arguments that havent been made.....you've been called out for it before and you're doing it again.

Yeah, id be ok with $40m (over a long period - say 5 years).

No, nobody ive seen says drafting an elite QB, you're making it up.

The main difference with Dak's contract was that he insisted on the short length....hence didnt give the chance to manipulate it.....just go look at Hurts contract, no issue until 2029.

Hurts’ contract is $51 million a year though. Dak signing for $40 million a year for five years would essentially be worse than Daniel Jones’ contract.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Hurts’ contract is $51 million a year though. Dak signing for $40 million a year for five years would essentially be worse than Daniel Jones’ contract.

His CAP hit doesn't surpass $51m until 2029 ($97M). The averaged contract means very little, look at the individual year's CAP HIT, The Eagles have had 5 years of their QB receiving less than 15% of the CAP.....that's what's helping them make free agency additions.

 

[charron]

And at the end of the day the defense being horrible or great has zero effect on Dak's personal play.

Dak is allowed to play well regardless of how our defense plays.

That is correct. Don't get me wrong he is a good player but he lacks the championship gene. There might be only 1 or 2 QB's that can win while Jerry or Stephen are in control so it really doesn't matter.

 

[jaythecowboy]

His CAP hit doesn't surpass $51m until 2029 ($97M). The averaged contract means very little, look at the individual year's CAP HIT, The Eagles have had 5 years of their QB receiving less than 15% of the CAP.....that's what's helping them make free agency additions.

My point about Hurts deal is that a five year deal is fair because of the high aav. Expecting Dak to sign a longer deal for the same or less average per year is a big reason why the first negotiation took so long. Daks cap hit has been low every year till now and the Cowboys haven’t added one big name free agent.

 

[DandyDon52]

One thing I have always noticed on the Dak threads is that no one ever says who they would replace him with as the starting QB that has any merit. Draft choice, sure but what will you have to give up to get that high to have a shot at a guy that could win. Trade, no team is going to trade you Burrows or Allen or Herbert. Cousins maybe, Hurt maybe but are they upgrades.

Next year, currently, we will have zero QBs on the roster meaning if they don't extend Dak or Rush or Lance then some will get there wish of some 3rd string QB in FA or pick a QB late in the 1st round of the draft or trade up to take a QB in what is predicted to be the worse draft for QBs since 2016 where 15 QBs where drafted and the only 2 that have done anything is Goff and oh, Dak. And the draft where 6 QBs taken in the first 12 picks and the prediction is only 2 will be of any major contributor.

Every team struggles with the salary cap usually pushing things down the road and Dallas is no different. Can Dak win in the playoffs? Haven't seen it yet but could he if the situation was right, sure. This time of year we always have the naysayers about how Cowboys won't even make the playoffs to those who believe we will win the division and a couple of playoff games. Fact, none of us know what will happen because far to many factors weigh in from contracts to injuries to other teams injuries to weather to you name it. We will have to wait and see what happens, like it or not.

So now we just complain or praise with our opinions. Vent one way or the other with the only fact is the Cowboys are going to do how they view it not ours. Such is the life of a football fan especially a Dallas Cowboy fan.

Good post, no one knows what the jones boys would do for a qb, or if they could pick a good one.
they could however give lance a shot if he looks great in PS, or go with rush as a bus driver, but doing either of those or drafting a qb,
they would need a good OL and a good rb or 2, not elliot and dowdle.
These OL guys they drafted this time may turn out ok and they will be cheap for 4 years, but jerry will waste those years, just like he is wasting
this year and possibly 25.

The one thing dak needs this year for a chance to do better is a strong run game, and right now the rb room looks pitiful.

 

[DandyDon52]

I believe this front office has NEVER understood what it had in Dak or Romo. Both are/were good but NOT great QBs. Good enough to get a team to the playoffs, but NOT ELITE enough to carry a team through the playoffs on their own. Jerry has never understood this. Still doesn’t.

Honestly, there’s only 2 current QBs in this league capable of carrying a team deep in the playoffs. Mahomes and Burrow. That’s it. Only 2.

What Dak and Romo need/needed are exactly what a guy like Joe Flacco or Russell Wilson needed: Either a great defense and/or a great running game. At least one is needed, and if it’s a great running game, you have to have at least a good defense. Romo’s best season was 2014 when we led the league in rushing

Flacco won a SB with the ravens and made it to several AFC championship games with a great defense. Wilson won two NFC championships and a SB with a great defense and a top 5 running game. We’ve seen what Wilson is without it.

Yes, Dak deserves some blame for our playoff failures. For sure sure. But those blaming him alone are IMO failing to see the bigger issue of this team’s challenges. Unless you have Mahomes or Burrow, you can’t expect a QB to carry you alone. “Earth to Jerry”……

Exactly , also it helps to have better coaches and HC as well.
Pete carroll was way better than mm and JG, and Harbaugh is way better too.

In 2014 dallas had a decent defense, but if it had been better they might have beat GB, I remember at the end our defense needed to hold GB
to a 3 and out, and they easily got 3 first downs just running the ball lol.

 

[CowboyoWales]

One thing I have always noticed on the Dak threads is that no one ever says who they would replace him with as the starting QB that has any merit.

Another false narrative from a Pro-Dak fan......many fans have answered your point, but it gets rehashed in perpetuity ....because it's the only fall back position you've got ......if not Dak, then whom.

Just look at 2016, and indeed what's transpiring in SF (and to a lesser extent Philli)......build the team first and fit in the QB (surrounded by talent). We've got Lance, what makes him any worse that the 4th Rd draft pick Dak, in 2016?

Your point comes across as 'you've got to stick with Dak (even though he probably wont get you there) because there's nobody better'.....and appears a subjective way of supporting Dak.

If Lance fails, then you draft a QB with the decent draft pick. Anticipating the next point, "you're wasting a year of your existing players".....well they get extended (with the CAP saved on Dak).

 

[Bullflop]

Sorry to say that I doubt those "2 other coaches" know what's best for Dak. Our coaches have been through thick and thin with him and know him well enough by now to expect him to perform better than he has vs. the better defensive teams in the NFL. He has enough experience by now to remain calm and perform well enough to do better against good teams. Dak must learn to keep his concentration and remain calm under stress.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I believe this front office has NEVER understood what it had in Dak or Romo. Both are/were good but NOT great QBs. Good enough to get a team to the playoffs, but NOT ELITE enough to carry a team through the playoffs on their own. Jerry has never understood this. Still doesn’t.

Honestly, there’s only 2 current QBs in this league capable of carrying a team deep in the playoffs. Mahomes and Burrow. That’s it. Only 2.

What Dak and Romo need/needed are exactly what a guy like Joe Flacco or Russell Wilson needed: Either a great defense and/or a great running game. At least one is needed, and if it’s a great running game, you have to have at least a good defense. Romo’s best season was 2014 when we led the league in rushing

Flacco won a SB with the ravens and made it to several AFC championship games with a great defense. Wilson won two NFC championships and a SB with a great defense and a top 5 running game. We’ve seen what Wilson is without it.

Yes, Dak deserves some blame for our playoff failures. For sure sure. But those blaming him alone are IMO failing to see the bigger issue of this team’s challenges. Unless you have Mahomes or Burrow, you can’t expect a QB to carry you alone. “Earth to Jerry”……

Creating a "Great Defense" is difficult to do when you pay such a high CAP% on your QB (unless he's an elite difference maker). Flacco and Wilson succeeded because they were on minimal CAP hits......hence, they achieved nothing when their CAP rose after their first contract.

Nobody is just blaming Dak, indeed, his contract(s) IS/ARE HIGHLIGHTING the deficiencies in Jerry's running of the franchise (the inability to move on from 'his guy's' .....in favor of extending in an annual belief that luck may get us over the line.

Yes we need a new GM (lets hope this mess of a strategy in Dak's contractS and the negotiations) make him realize he needs to employ a professional GM), but the Cab on the Rank is Dak and the contract......either accept a long term deal that can be restructured into a concentrated couple of years of ALL-IN, or if he wants another short term contract .....move on.

 

[Bullflop]

Sorry to say that I doubt those "2 other coaches" know what's best for Dak. Our coaches have been through thick and thin with him and know him well enough by now to expect him to perform better than he has vs. the better defensive teams in the NFL. He has enough experience by now to remain calm and perform well enough to do better against good teams. Dak must learn to keep his concentration and remain calm under stress.

As an additional thought to my previous post, perhaps a sports psychologist could coach him into remaining calm enough under stress to improve his concentration, if that hasn't been tried already?! He has had enough experience to do better than he has in tight games vs. the good defenses.

 

[CowboyoWales]

Sorry to say that I doubt those "2 other coaches" know what's best for Dak. Our coaches have been through thick and thin with him and know him well enough by now to expect him to perform better than he has vs. the better defensive teams in the NFL. He has enough experience by now to remain calm and perform well enough to do better against good teams. Dak must learn to keep his concentration and remain calm under stress.

Yep, isnt that why MM went to a TCO in 2023, as he appeared to struggle when going through reads and waiting for routes to develop (especially when teams changed their post snap look, especially when they 'brought down' one of the Safeties).

Quick, instantaneous plays that meant he didnt have to think about the play (which is a possible pre-cursor to the anxiety affect, which seems to hit him). Unfortunately, we were unable to change that Offense, once Defenses had caught up (and counteracted).

 

[CowboyoWales]

As an additiona; thought to my previous post, perhaps a sports psychologist could coach him into remaining calm enough under stress to improve his concentration, if that hasn't been tried already?! He has had enough experience to do better than he has in tight games vs. good defenses.

100%

 

[CowboyoWales]

My point about Hurts deal is that a five year deal is fair because of the high aav. Expecting Dak to sign a longer deal for the same or less average per year is a big reason why the first negotiation took so long. Daks cap hit has been low every year till now and the Cowboys haven’t added one big name free agent.

As @Bullflop is alluding to, the Dak issue is around the anxiety (which is enhanced during stressful situations of: clawing back large deficits or clock running down and no margin for error). Now money doesnt help with roster 'per se' as it's not weapons that he needs, but he needs a running game and/or a Defense that can keep us in the game whilst he regains composure.

The problem is that even then Dak still has to perform, the ball is still in his hand and whilst Dak Regardless fans like to ignore it.....the 2 SF Play-off loses, whilst the team didnt play well. DAK DID HAVE 4/5 DRIVES LATE IN THE 4TH Q to win it.

Your last sentence......dont conflict the FO and Dak situations as being either/or BOTH ARE AT FAULY, they are mutually inclusive in the game of blame.

 

[Swagger]

All the signs would simply point towards the Cowboy allowing Prescott to leave at the end of the season for a 3rd round comp pick if that's how it works.

 

[CowboyoWales]

All the signs would simply point towards the Cowboy allowing Prescott to leave at the end of the season for a 3rd round comp pick if that's how it works.

If I had to guess, then yep.....but that's because it's the worst possible scenario. Jerry pays Dak $29m in a vain hope that Dak will thank him and give him a Team Friendly Contract (Jerry, wake up, it's not happening.....just look read through what you gave him last time), we have a much inferior roster, with a solid schedule and we're left with $40m CAP Dead Money in 2025, havent given Lance a chance (so wasted a 4th) and a middling draft pick (that wont get us in a decent position to draft a replacement)......
......to top it off Jerry will be forced to bid (and probably win) the 2025 Dak Sweepstake at a highly inflated AAV, due to competing bids.

Jerry you cant run a franchise and the Dak situation confirms it.

Best case scenario's:

a) long term contract (allowing restructuring and couples window for ALL-IN.....behind a professional GM),
b) If Dak wont sign a long term ......cut him Pre-June, save the money and wipe the Dead Money off the 2025 ledger and reassess the Dak situation from a negotiating position of strength (as Jerry would of shown he's got the balls to make a decision).

 

[CATCH17]

They've given him little, they've given him lots, and he still can't get it done. So if that's "who he is" (and it is), then you move on. The only thing he hasn't had is great coaching, and he's not getting that here, ever.

100% this..

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

We know you Dakky Poo fans don't care about wins.

Cooper Rush killed your narratives and you hate him for it.

All hail Cooper Rush! Killer of the "If Dak can't do it nobody can" narrative!

OMG, what's in your brain...Dakky Poo!!! really...what? are you reverting to being 5 and in kindergarten!!! grow up...get a job

Cooper rush didn't kill any narratives. he produced and offense that was ranked 22nd or worse in every statistical category. he literally got carried by the defense including the defense scoring in a couple of games to help him out.
the very first time a team scored more than 20 on Cowboys. we got blown out.

and let me help you out, given you head is so far up rush's behind.
first, put both hands on the cheeks.
then push hard, like you are lifting something over your head. push really hard
plop...

now breath

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

OMG, what's in your brain...Dakky Poo!!! really...what? are you reverting to being 5 and in kindergarten!!! grow up...get a job

Cooper rush didn't kill any narratives. he produced and offense that was ranked 22nd or worse in every statistical category. he literally got carried by the defense including the defense scoring in a couple of games to help him out.
the very first time a team scored more than 20 on Cowboys. we got blown out.

and let me help you out, given you head is so far up rush's behind.
first, put both hands on the cheeks.
then push hard, like you are lifting something over your head. push really hard
plop...

now breath

How can you sit there and write sentences with so many basic, 5 year old level (see what I did there?) errors, and still have the nerve to call anyone 5 years old?

Dak fans are funny.

 

[McKDaddy]

I'm fairly certain his $55-59 million dollar contract plays a role in what the expectations are from Dak. If he is willing to play for half that amount it could possibly improve players around him.

He would still falter when difficulty arose. It's who he is.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

How can you sit there and write sentences with so many basic, 5 year old level (see what I did there?) errors, and still have the nerve to call anyone 5 years old?

Dak fans are funny.

oh, you have nothing else so you pick on grammatical errors.
really Dakky Poo!? really!!!

you dug yourself that hole buddy. dig your way out of it! grow up