Fish Show: 2 Scouts say Cowboys coaches asking too much of Dak

[MountaineerCowboy]

in 2016 they had a run heavy offense with a vg RB, and they had success.
Then they started with the more pass heavy offense, trying to make dak something he isnt.
This is basically what the scouts are suggesting. Dak isnt good in pass heavy, and neither is MM.

Now this year they have degraded the rb situation and run offense, so dak will have to pass more.
That doesnt bode success.
The problem is jerry and MM want a big passing game, and dont care about a good run game, so it can work against the lesser teams,
but not in the playoffs.

I think coaching is dallas biggest problem not dak.
Dak isnt great but he is ok avg qb.
Unless jerry gets better coaches, (not zimmer) they will continue to struggle, no matter who the qb is.
I think lance will be much worse than dak, rush would be ok, but with these bozo coaches and MM he cant win in playoffs either.

I would like to see a change at qb, (and at HC) but lance isnt the answer, and the jones boys cant pick a good qb if their life depended on it.
Dak is too expensive to keep, so they would be better to get a cheap one, IF they will spend the money they save on FA to make the team
better.

McCarthy has a winning record in Dallas when Dak isn't on the field.

McCarthy has a 5-1 record with Cooper Rush. A QB that when cut and was available NOBODY wanted.

How can you say coaching is a bigger problem than Dak? lol

Should we give him a 3rd HC and 4th OC and see if he all of a sudden manifests talent?

 

[KingintheNorth]

Dak has developed but still has several flaws. He has yet to have NFL caliber coaching. Garrett is a great human being but not a coach and while he tried to motivate Dak with competition, challenges, pep talks, etc., he was toothless. McCarthy is an absolute fraud, a coach with no real identity, and will say anything but has no real plan for success.

 

[fivetwos]

Dak has developed but still has several flaws. He has yet to have NFL caliber coaching. Garrett is a great human being but not a coach and while he tried to motivate Dak with competition, challenges, pep talks, etc., he was toothless. McCarthy is an absolute fraud, a coach with no real identity, and will say anything but has no real plan for success.

All could be very true, but at least Jerry was “comfortable” and “having fun.”

None of those two could have possibly stolen the spotlight from him.

What’s more important than that?

 

[DandyDon52]

It's another example of the "Sunk Cost" fallacy. Just because Jerry has invested HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! doesn't mean Dak is going to go to another team and do any better. Think about all the players Dak has had around him over the years and hasn't been able to overcome middling teams. SMH... he isn't going to go to someplace like Arizona and suddenly knock em dead.

would it not depend on the HC,OC there and how they use him??
If dak is smart , he would hold out be a FA and find another team.

 

[DandyDon52]

If that's his mentality then it explains a lot. No actual competitive, franchise QB would be willing to sit on the bench and waste a year of their career. That's a loser mentality, so you might be right.

well we dont know that he would sit on the bench lol.
I doubt jerry would keep him and bench him, that isnt something jerry would do.
If dak doesnt play I dont think he gets paid, so he will play if he is here.

 

[DandyDon52]

So a couple of scouts think the coaches are asking for too much from Dak because he's not Roger's or Brady. I think the coaches - and fans - are just asking for Dak to stop crapping the bed during the first half of games when it matters.

To be fair, lol it wasnt just dak that crapped the bed in GB game, MM crapped the bed big time, and lamb was lost and acted like a baby.

 

[sbark]

What is a " complicated " offense?

Most time, heck most plays....Mahomes options are limited, he has to ad-lib, his receivers act as needed to a open spot, comeback or deep

Is that complicated?....or just playing the game?
Mahomes, Burrows, etc ...ad lib under stress, but make great decisions
Brady....couldnt run worth a lick.....can be said he had a compkicated offense, with options stacked time, yard wise

 

[jaythecowboy]

The issue is Dak feels he has to press when the defense isn’t playing well and that is where a lot of the ints come from. A lot of teams has slow starts in the playoffs last year but they had defenses that gave time for things to settle down.

 

[CowboyoWales]

I tend to agree with you. not sure why everyone keeps making those comparisons when everyone agrees, Dak is not them. they are crying about not having one of those guys, because they see the only path to success with having an Elite QB. they think that and that alone is what ails cowboys and that and that alone is the only thing needed to fix it.

so lets find an elite QB.....tell me who? and I asked several put your name next to a QB in this draft you think is elite. they responded with, its not my job, its scouting Dept. job. but I want what I want.

Stop giving this false narrative about fans wanting a Brady or a Mahomes. What we're saying is the problem is paying Dak TO A SIMILAR CONTRACT to Mahomes.

There's many of us (actually most who are accused of Dak Haters) that's happy not have an elite QB. We havent had one since Aikman and the pre-CAP years, but we certainly dont want a good QB getting paid elite money. Build the O-Line, build a defense and fit in any QB. First up Lance, if he fails we'll be in the market for a QB in 2025.

 

[Bobhaze]

Correct, Dak is a good QB that requires a formidable D and a very good running game to get to the promised land like most QB's. Knowing he is not Mahomes or Burrows and you need those other elements, you can not pay him like a top 2 QB.

I hope this is what our brain trust has finally figured out at least it has put them on the fence about how that works.

If he would sign for $40/45M APY on a 5 year contract (which he won't) I would sign him tomorrow as it would allow you to build those other elements around him. But if you pay him what he wants you can't afford those other things consistently.

Hence the rock and the hard place.

Heres the problem - It’s called NFL economics 101. And it’s just like regular economics. Supply and demand. There is a huge demand for even DECENT QB play. Not Mahomes level. Not Burrow level. Decent, starting QB level. High demand with very, very low supply of even decent QB.

So if you want even decent QB play, you have to pay market price. Or have a guy on a rookie deal who is good. Like Purdy. He’s far from elite. Look at what Tampa just paid Baker Mayfield - a huge payday for a guy who’s done less than Dak overall. Cousins get huge money in Atlanta and they even drafted his replacement. This list could go on. Dak is as good as guys like Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson who won SBs but had the right support.

Fans thinking if a QB can’t “carry”a team he’s not worth market price just aren’t understanding how the NFL‘s QB market works. Dak is not elite, but he's better that probably 20-25 other starting QBs. No he can’t carry the Cowboys alone to a SB. Did Troy? No. He had a great running game and defense. Neither do most QBs who win SBs. Only the elite of the elite don’t need help.

Look, I’m not saying Dak doesn’t deserve the criticism he‘s been getting. He was awful vs the pack in the playoffs and the 49ers last year. I’m tired of watching the same movie every year too.

But unless we want to go back to the days before Romo, searching the wilderness with guys like Chad Hutchison, Anthony Wright, Clint Stoener, etc…..we either need to let Dak go and suck bad enough to get a high draft pick, pick a QB in the first round and then pray fervently to the football gods that we get lucky and he pans out.

Dak has been disappointing in the playoffs for sure. But thinking all we need to do is get rid of him and go pick the QB tree and all will be well is not very likely. And thinking we don’t have to pay a QB market price means you either found an excellent young QB on a rookie deal or we are tanking to rebuild. And until this FO learns to understand how to build an appropriate roster in the cap era, we are going to keep getting what we’re getting.

 

[quickccc]

Good show, about what 2 scouts told Fish about Cowboys, just their opinion.
One thing that came out of it is both JG and MM have asked Dak to do too much, instead of just letting him be who he is.
So to me it is what I sometimes talk about, it is how you use a player that matters. Dont force a square peg into a round hole, it doesnt work very good.

They talk about dak, guyton,beebe (he should be center only, not a guard) and some other guys and stuff.

I wonder how much is the coaches ...and how much is it the FO.

Dak is not the QB that can single handedly put his team over the top . what other QB can do that ?
that's only Mahomes.

Even MVP Lamar Jackson did have the skill set to do so .. that's why they've added stud RB Derrick Henry to the mix.

We also need a stud RB also .. to add to Dak's passing, and give opposing defense another dimension to have to contend with.
but there are issues there too:

1) we simply do not have that RB dimension.. instead we have pedestrian level RBs. With Zeke as the lead RB, we'll have one of the slowest
backfields in the NFL. It's so painful to see him run the ball.

2) we simply do not have the coaching staff that supports or emphasizes " splash" play, big game threat RB
to which that is BOTH run and pass game - this coach staff mis-schemes RBs
It's much more scheme to a power run game and we flat do not scheme our RBs to be weapons in pass game.
Splash game does play big should we get behind in points.

 

[Creeper]

I tend to agree with you. not sure why everyone keeps making those comparisons when everyone agrees, Dak is not them. they are crying about not having one of those guys, because they see the only path to success with having an Elite QB. they think that and that alone is what ails cowboys and that and that alone is the only thing needed to fix it.

so lets find an elite QB.....tell me who? and I asked several put your name next to a QB in this draft you think is elite. they responded with, its not my job, its scouting Dept. job. but I want what I want.

What I would argue is they can find another Dak a lot easier than finding a Brady, Mahomes, or Rodgers. So if Dak holds them up for $60 million, I would say goodbye and start me search.

But the bigger point is, we have an owner that doesn't want to do what is necessary to plug gaps in the roster. He ties his hands behind his back while every other team at least dips a toe in the free agency waters. Imagine the ego to think he can draft so much better than anyone else that he doesn't need to use free agency once or twice a year to fill the roster?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Stop giving this false narrative about fans wanting a Brady or a Mahomes. What we're saying is the problem is paying Dak TO A SIMILAR CONTRACT to Mahomes.

There's many of us (actually most who are accused of Dak Haters) that's happy not have an elite QB. We havent had one since Aikman and the pre-CAP years, but we certainly dont want a good QB getting paid elite money. Build the O-Line, build a defense and fit in any QB. First up Lance, if he fails we'll be in the market for a QB in 2025.

So if he gets paid 40M you are OK with Dak?
And yes there are those who keep talking about drafting an elite QB and keep talking about mahomes and Brady.

And cap is manipulated. You argue that Dak was paid like Mahomes. Ok, but first three years of contract his cap hit was 27,19, 23 M

So cap wasn't an issues.

I don't think you know what you want.

 

[kskboys]

Of course. Due to his grossly inferior NFL brain, Jerry always makes his teams way too QB dependent. Why? Because he just doesn't understand the game at this level.

 

[kskboys]

What I would argue is they can find another Dak a lot easier than finding a Brady, Mahomes, or Rodgers. So if Dak holds them up for $60 million, I would say goodbye and start me search.

But the bigger point is, we have an owner that doesn't want to do what is necessary to plug gaps in the roster. He ties his hands behind his back while every other team at least dips a toe in the free agency waters. Imagine the ego to think he can draft so much better than anyone else that he doesn't need to use free agency once or twice a year to fill the roster?

He'd rather take luxuries like Schooner.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

McCarthy has a winning record in Dallas when Dak isn't on the field.

McCarthy has a 5-1 record with Cooper Rush. A QB that when cut and was available NOBODY wanted.

How can you say coaching is a bigger problem than Dak? lol

Should we give him a 3rd HC and 4th OC and see if he all of a sudden manifests talent?

Well McCarthy without Dak struggled offensively. If not for the defense saving the day it would have been much worse.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Well McCarthy without Dak struggled offensively. If not for the defense saving the day it would have been much worse.

We know you Dakky Poo fans don't care about wins.

Cooper Rush killed your narratives and you hate him for it.

All hail Cooper Rush! Killer of the "If Dak can't do it nobody can" narrative!

 

[plasticman]

Typical.

To this day Jerry still beleives that a player will perform beyond their capability if you just pay them more.

A bigger contract will make Marion Barber more productive.

More money for Dez will insure a 1500 yard season.

A raise for D-Law practically guarantees a 12 sack season.

 

[morat1959]

would it not depend on the HC,OC there and how they use him??
If dak is smart , he would hold out be a FA and find another team.

Dak and smart should never go in the same sentence but I hope he does exactly what you suggest.

 

[CowboyoWales]

So if he gets paid 40M you are OK with Dak?
And yes there are those who keep talking about drafting an elite QB and keep talking about mahomes and Brady.

And cap is manipulated. You argue that Dak was paid like Mahomes. Ok, but first three years of contract his cap hit was 27,19, 23 M

So cap wasn't an issues.

I don't think you know what you want.

You've got to stop gaslighting and making up false assumptions and arguments that havent been made.....you've been called out for it before and you're doing it again.

Yeah, id be ok with $40m (over a long period - say 5 years).

No, nobody ive seen says drafting an elite QB, you're making it up.

The main difference with Dak's contract was that he insisted on the short length....hence didnt give the chance to manipulate it.....just go look at Hurts contract, no issue until 2029.