Florio makes my point about contracts/QB Salary Cap?

[Reid1boys]

Of course it is permitted. You just don't like to. Just like players don't like being cut from a contract they signed.

ok... you win. Its permitted. I think teams actually supply them with cake and ice cream for each day they hold out.

 

[Flamma]

So if a player signs a 4 year deal worth $40M and a $10M signing bonus and gets cut after year one, did the player get $40M? No he did not. The full contract was not honored.

Whatever is guaranteed in the contract is paid. What he is being paid every year he is there is written into the contract. Not requiring for the entire contract to be paid is part of the contract both sides agreed to. If in your example the player played the entire 4 years, he gets paid the 40M. If at some point he gets cut, he's only owed what is guaranteed in the contract.

I have a 4 year union contract. Do you think if they got rid of us all tomorrow, they'd have to pay out the entire 4 years? They pay us what is in the contract while we're there.

 

[Chasing6]

Whatever is guaranteed in the contract is paid. What he is being paid every year he is there is written into the contract. Not requiring for the entire contract to be paid is part of the contract both sides agreed to. If in your example the player played the entire 4 years, he gets paid the 40M. If at some point he gets cut, he's only owed what is guaranteed in the contract.

I have a 4 year union contract. Do you think if they got rid of us all tomorrow, they'd have to pay out the entire 4 years? They pay us what is in the contract while we're there.

So then it is the same both ways. Contract is to play games. If the player refuses to play he does not get paid.

 

[Proof]

But it's not not when they can't come to an agreement it's not mutually beneficial most of the time when you're asking a player to sign early you want him to go long years because the first two years are gonna be the of the same contract they don't get start getting paid but it allows the team to spread the money out... So it's not always in every case mutually beneficial or everyone would do it and they do not there are a lot of teams out there on franchise tags and fit their options lots of players are doing it they're threatening holdouts after three years I mean this is the new thing it's becoming more and more normal for the players to just start thinking at year three of any contract from the rookie or their other one with their hand out for another bite at the apple..

it’s mutually beneficial in that the player gets bonuses and gtys … early. everyone doesn’t choose to do it because some players would rather forgo that and bet on a bigger payday by waiting

 

[baltcowboy]

Dak played for like 2.1 mil his final season. I don't believe for a second he wouldn't have signed the right deal, France or otherwise.

Do you know he fired his original agent right before he was eligible for a contract extension. Dak was never going to accept Goff/Wentz money because he was better then them.

 

[Reid1boys]

Hold out is also a part of the contract that where the fines come from.

thats is the dumbest thing Ive read in a long time. Murder is allowed under our system of laws by your logic. It spells it out.. Murder is ok, it will just cost you this many years behind bars.....smh

 

[Proof]

Do you know he fired his original agent right before he was eligible for a contract extension. Dak was never going to accept Goff/Wentz money because he was better then them.

perhaps. not what I said though.

 

[Chasing6]

thats is the dumbest thing Ive read in a long time. Murder is allowed under our system of laws by your logic. It spells it out.. Murder is ok, it will just cost you this many years behind bars.....smh

So now criminal activities are agreed upon and negotiated contracts? I thought criminals got lawyers after they were arrested.

I had no idea they got Lawyers and negotiated and signed contracts before they committed a crime.

 

[Reid1boys]

So now criminal activities are agreed upon and negotiated contracts? I thought criminals got lawyers after they were arrested.

I had no idea they got Lawyers and negotiated and signed contracts before they committed a crime.

The laws are the contract for society. Since the penalty for killing someone is spelled out, then we have an agreement. Killing is allowed, it will just cost you this many years. Just like holding out, right? It is in the contract....smh

 

[Chasing6]

The laws are the contract for society. Since the penalty for killing someone is spelled out, then we have an agreement. Killing is allowed, it will just cost you this many years. Just like holding out, right? It is in the contract....smh

No it is not even close.

I am pretty sure criminals do not agree to get caught. They do not agree to jail time.

You must think All Killers are in jail. You must believe All criminals get caught.

Since it is a contract, do the just turn themselves in afterwards? I mean they agreed to it correct?

 

[baltcowboy]

perhaps. not what I said though.

Dak is one of the top quarterbacks in the league. He plays for the Cowboys and has one of the top agents. Don’t let his statement about playing for money fool you. Look at what is right in front of your face.

 

[blueblood70]

it’s mutually beneficial in that the player gets bonuses and gtys … early. everyone doesn’t choose to do it because some players would rather forgo that and bet on a bigger payday by waiting

and some of them need to learn that $1 million a game is different this isn't your old NFL city lamb is up for $1 million a game and Parsons 1.5 billion on their fifth year option so I don't wanna hear about all the nonsense like they're underpaid or something even that they should come in and play because maybe they didn't learn from leveon bell and Antonio Brown some other guys they say they bet on themselves even the contract that Dalton Schultz turned down then he goes in his first year and you said he had to go prove himself again because he didn't make the money then he would have got with the Cowboys could have stayed with the Cowboys under the contract they offered which was about what he got anyway or maybe even a little less I'm just saying there's a learning lesson in here but some of these dudes are already top five players these fifth year options our big money just like the franchise tag this isn't turning down some money because you feel like you're gonna be underpaid that much I realize he can get 32 or more but that doesn't mean you give up $1 million to play football for one year and get 17,000,000 for your efforts... They will get paid either way you do realize like Prescott broke his ankle in half and still got paid the good players will get paid injured or not it's not gonna affect their contracts Prescott's a perfect example because he still got everything he wanted he basically took Jerry Jones to the cleaners for making him wait even after injury...

So I don't care if they hold out all training camp like Chris Jones did so long as these players are back to play football I'm not worried about practice they're staying in shape most players need the first two games of the year to get fully into four-game shape for a 17 game season so I don't care this whole what looks good to be a holdout is not hold out in my opinion until they don't show up to play the real games,,

 

[Chasing6]

it’s mutually beneficial in that the player gets bonuses and gtys … early. everyone doesn’t choose to do it because some players would rather forgo that and bet on a bigger payday by waiting

The players that typically get bonuses in their contract are unproven, past their prime or are unproven or coming off an injury.

 

[thunderpimp91]

So my opinion he got what he was worth and it was not taking Jerry to the cleaners

Prescott's a perfect example because he still got everything he wanted he basically took Jerry Jones to the cleaners

 

[blueblood70]

Two different scenarios just because it sounds contradictive it is not actually... I'm saying that Prescott after getting hurt and betting on himself he was able to get everything he wanted and Jerry no longer had leverage and using the term taken to the cleaners it wasn't from the selfish perspective that you're looking at from I'm saying the man instead of holding out accepted the franchise tag played on it had his leg snapped off and then came back and decided he was gonna get everything that he deserved because he bet on himself and wasn't going to make any concessions that's not truly taking someone to the cleaners it means he wasn't going to giving it all because he did wait and he was patient and he didn't hold out like some of these other fools are threatening to hold out... So if anyone was afraid of injury and saying that's why they're holding out it's nonsense because Prescott got everything and more than he probably would have got had he came to an agreement before he bet on himself...

That's two different things I'm not saying he got paid too much or he got too much I'm saying because he was willing to wait and not hold out he ended up probably getting more than he would have as far as the franchise tag and no transition and no trade tags where he got all that removed and still got his money after getting hurt he probably would have conceded some of that had he signed early but not his actual average salary and all that other nonsense so yes I get why you're looking like it's a contradiction but you're not following me...

Well I think you are following me because you're reading somebody else's post that I replied to and then made sure you pulled that little snippet out so you are stalking me lol

 

[blueblood70]

Stop stalking me

 

[thunderpimp91]

Stop stalking me

Yes, I made a reply on a public forum on a thread I've already been active in. Obviously I must be stalking you and tracking your every move. No other option that it could be.

Two different scenarios just because it sounds contradictive it is not actually... I'm saying that Prescott after getting hurt and betting on himself he was able to get everything he wanted and Jerry no longer had leverage and using the term taken to the cleaners it wasn't from the selfish perspective that you're looking at from I'm saying the man instead of holding out accepted the franchise tag played on it had his leg snapped off and then came back and decided he was gonna get everything that he deserved

What's contradictive is that since close to the start of this thread I've completely agreed with your stance here, but you've told me over and over that I'm wrong. When I say Dak got everything he wanted and Jerry had no leverage apparently you think I'm calling a player selfish. You say the same thing and it's completely different.

Sorry if you feel like I'm picking on you here, but if you're going to twist my words and make me out to be this anti Dak guy then I'll point out your inconsistencies as well when I see them.

 

[blueblood70]

Yes, I made a reply on a public forum on a thread I've already been active in. Obviously I must be stalking you and tracking your every move. No other option that it could be.

What's contradictive is that since close to the start of this thread I've completely agreed with your stance here, but you've told me over and over that I'm wrong. When I say Dak got everything he wanted and Jerry had no leverage apparently you think I'm calling a player selfish. You say the same thing and it's completely different.

Sorry if you feel like I'm picking on you here, but if you're going to twist my words and make me out to be this anti Dak guy then I'll point out your inconsistencies as well when I see them.

No first of all finding my little quote and his long winded rants that I put sometimes without taking a breath that's stalking somebody cause you finding that little quote after all that yeah I would say it borders on stocking but I'm telling you he never would have signed for less Jerry would never have got the man to sign for less that's why he bet on himself there was nothing he could do to make the agents of Prescott or Prescott sign for less money you are on that and I'm saying you took that he got everything you want after getting hurt because he bet on himself and he was no way he was signing early like everyone keeps saying that they should have because the players and the agents have more control on when they sign especially nowadays they'll just take the franchise tag or the 5th year option and then bet on themselves or they hold out but at least Prescott didn't hold out so he wasn't selfish...

Your perspective was that they could have got Prescott for less and I'm telling you he never would have signed for less just because you think he would have because three years after that he would have came back on that long deal and then truly held out and he would have got reupped long before the deal was over that'll be the only way he would have took less at the time to help A-Team friendly aspect that you keep drilling and I'm telling you that would have never happened... These agents know what's coming and they would never have allow Prescott to take a deal that way that's why he did not and he did end up getting hurt and that's why I don't understand why lamb and Parsons are threatening holdouts with all that money on the table they saw Prescott get his money they might as well come in and play appease the fans make a ton of money $1 million plus a game and then they'll get what they want later and it may be a little more but you thinking that they should have already signed these guys you don't know what's going on behind closed doors they're gonna reject these deals if they're not good down the road you know like we just saw Justin Jefferson and we seen TUA rejected a $50 million offer which that's all that guys work but he ain't taking it... Miami's trying to do the right thing and signing the guy they waited to see if this guy could play at all because he hasn't looked very good up until last year when they overloaded him with talent but look what the player and agent did they rejected $50 million you're not getting these players fooled into signing team friendly deals you blame the owners and the front office and the management and I'm telling you that's not them that's typically holding this up...​

​

That is where we have been in disagreement they did not have an opportunity to sign early because you don't know what went on behind closed doors... The only way that would have happened is what you're saying Prescott should have took a 10 year deal but he wasn't selfish taking the shorter deal because he bet on himself broke his ankle worked really hard it felt that was what he was willing to take cause that's what he was worth and he wasn't gonna go longer because he knows he gets another bite at the apple and which he did this is not selfishness this is what players do in a sport where it's only takes one plate it might end your career.... That's where you and I are butting heads you think Prescott was selfish not taking a longer team friendly deal that you consider team friendly but he saw forecasted with his agent what was happening with quarterback money and like some of our other players like Dalton Schultz felt slighted and ended up with less money anyway in my opinion that they were not going to sign that kind of deal but that does not make them selfish and it does not make the front office stupid it is just negotiations..

 

[thunderpimp91]

No first of all finding my little quote and his long winded rants that I put sometimes without taking a breath that's stalking somebody cause you finding that little quote after all that yeah I would say it borders on stocking but I'm telling you he never would have signed for less Jerry would never have got the man to sign for less that's why he bet on himself there was nothing he could do to make the agents of Prescott or Prescott sign for less money you are on that and I'm saying you took that he got everything you want after getting hurt because he bet on himself and he was no way he was signing early like everyone keeps saying that they should have because the players and the agents have more control on when they sign especially nowadays they'll just take the franchise tag or the 5th year option and then bet on themselves or they hold out but at least Prescott didn't hold out so he wasn't selfish...

Your perspective was that they could have got Prescott for less and I'm telling you he never would have signed for less just because you think he would have because three years after that he would have came back on that long deal and then truly held out and he would have got reupped long before the deal was over that'll be the only way he would have took less at the time to help A-Team friendly aspect that you keep drilling and I'm telling you that would have never happened... These agents know what's coming and they would never have allow Prescott to take a deal that way that's why he did not and he did end up getting hurt and that's why I don't understand why lamb and Parsons are threatening holdouts with all that money on the table they saw Prescott get his money they might as well come in and play appease the fans make a ton of money $1 million plus a game and then they'll get what they want later and it may be a little more but you thinking that they should have already signed these guys you don't know what's going on behind closed doors they're gonna reject these deals if they're not good down the road you know like we just saw Justin Jefferson and we seen TUA rejected a $50 million offer which that's all that guys work but he ain't taking it... Miami's trying to do the right thing and signing the guy they waited to see if this guy could play at all because he hasn't looked very good up until last year when they overloaded him with talent but look what the player and agent did they rejected $50 million you're not getting these players fooled into signing team friendly deals you blame the owners and the front office and the management and I'm telling you that's not them that's typically holding this up...​

​

That is where we have been in disagreement they did not have an opportunity to sign early because you don't know what went on behind closed doors... The only way that would have happened is what you're saying Prescott should have took a 10 year deal but he wasn't selfish taking the shorter deal because he bet on himself broke his ankle worked really hard it felt that was what he was willing to take cause that's what he was worth and he wasn't gonna go longer because he knows he gets another bite at the apple and which he did this is not selfishness this is what players do in a sport where it's only takes one plate it might end your career.... That's where you and I are butting heads you think Prescott was selfish not taking a longer team friendly deal that you consider team friendly but he saw forecasted with his agent what was happening with quarterback money and like some of our other players like Dalton Schultz felt slighted and ended up with less money anyway in my opinion that they were not going to sign that kind of deal but that does not make them selfish and it does not make the front office stupid it is just negotiations..

Dude, it was two quotes in the exact same thread, it's not like I went through several posts and plotted for days to catch you in a gotcha moment. You use talk to text and that's cool. There are times your post have some issues, but overall we get the gist of what you're saying I have zero issues with any of that.

My argument was never and has never been that Dak should have signed for less money. I've simply said that it would be nice to have Dak under an 8 year agreement like Josh Allen has, a 7 year like Joe Burrow has, or a 12 year agreement like Mahomes has. None of these guys have the no trade/no tag clauses in their contracts either.....feel free to fact check that statement, Mahomes might have a no trade but I'm not sure without looking it up. My argument from the beginning has simply been that Dak won the negotiations and he did so on every part of that deal. He beat Jerry at his own game like no player has ever done before.

My whole issue here is you keep throwing phrases around that I never said like the Dak is selfish narrative. I've never said that, and if I did feel free to show me where I did and I'll owe you an apology. I said the deal he signed was not team friendly....and its not because Dak won every single part of negotiations. A longer deal would have been an example of something team friendly. I also said we are feeling the effects from the short deal...and we are because the bill has come due after Jerry has been kicking money down the road for the previous three seasons.

Go back through this thread and if I have been disrespectful to Dak as a player or called him selfish please post the quote. If I did say something along those lines that I'm either forgetting or overlooking then as I mentioned I'd love to see it so I can issue an apology for continuing to argue over it. If you don't have evidence of me doing so please stop suggesting that is how I feel about the player, because I don't appreciate being labeled as hating on a player when I haven't.

 

[eromeopolk]

Wow, you are worried about multi billionaires have a cost increase at the QB position in a fixed salary cap. Really?

This is American Capitalism. Market is the market and there is a salary cap. You want to cap the cap. That is billionaire greed and hocus pocus economics.