Florio makes my point about contracts/QB Salary Cap?

[Reid1boys]

Then you should know very well how things work. I just automatically assumed you weren't union knowledgeable. How many people are? In my experience over 35 years this rarely happens. I've seen it happen once. But I'm dealing with 3-4 year contracts. It's not that big of a deal to wait it out. The NFL's CBA seems to be stupid long. But you're right on one thing, the players are weak.

You dont need to be knowledgeable to speak on topics around this place....lol
We clearly have discussion going on about how to run teams from dozens of people in here that have not had 1 day in a management position in their life, and certainly ave no experience running a pro sports team. Yet we have lots of "Ëxperts." So who needs knowledge?

 

[Flamma]

Bingo. There's no such thing as "outperforming" a contract unless the contract defines what "outperform" means.

What about players that are a drag on their contract? Do they offer any money back? Imagine Zach Wilson trying to swipe in to facilities only for the door to not open and he hits his face. Then hears, pay us back all of that money we gave you, keep a few packs of cigarettes for yourself. That's all you're worth.

Fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL with a hard cap would be a disaster. It's bad enough many players don't live up to their contracts, imagine the problems if they were fully guaranteed.

 

[Reid1boys]

NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed. The NFLPA would fight this tooth and nail, thrusting this into court if the Owners tried to cap one position. I could only see this possibly getting any traction if the Owners guaranteed QB contracts 100% when applying a hard cap. No way in hell the owners would agree to that.

uhm.... a QB cap would only happen if it was put in the CBA and the NFLPA approved it. So why the hell would the NFLPA then sue the league over something they approved? You think the non qb players would not approve this? The more and more QBs make, the less and less the rest of the players make. 90% of the players would approve this. The QBs would not.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

Yes, I wanted to reply the same….as long as the players Union signs off, it can happen.

I’m not so sure it an impossibility though, because you aren’t taking money out of players hands and moving it elsewhere, it would simply go from one union member to another. The cap wouldn’t drop and the revenue split would be the same.

But I don’t suppose they can favor certain members (non QBs) over others, unless it becomes problematic among themselves….

Thing is, as QB and WR salaries climb, that of other positions drops, and it’ll be interesting to see if it creates some sort of resentment within locker rooms and/or the union.

I’m sure the running backs aren’t very happy as is. Let’s see when it gets worse.

Let’s see when a 60 million dollar meh QB is blowing games and making three times what that same teams’ stud edge rusher makes…..etc.

Either way, realistic or not, I hope the league at least privately recognizes this problem.

They kind of do it already with the rookie wage scale, vet minimums, etc. by "it" I mean not treat every player the same. But then again none of those rules relate to a specific position so you may be right.

 

[Reid1boys]

What about players that are a drag on their contract? Do they offer any money back? Imagine Zach Wilson trying to swipe in to facilities only for the door to not open and he hits his face. Then hears, pay us back all of that money we gave you, keep a few packs of cigarettes for yourself. That's all you're worth.

Fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL with a hard cap would be a disaster. It's bad enough many players don't live up to their contracts, imagine the problems if they were fully guaranteed.

Today's athletes are just different. Theis younger generation is just different. And no, dont be calling me the get off my lawn guy.

Ben simmons has taken off seasons to deal with his "Mental health."
The best female tennis player in the world took off from tournaments to deal with her Mental Health.
The best female gymnast in the world dropepd out of the Olympice because she couldnt deal with the pressure.

Once these guys get paid, they simply do not have the same desire that layers from the past did. No way in hell would I guarantee contracts if I am an owner.

 

[BoyzBlaster]

What about players that are a drag on their contract? Do they offer any money back? Imagine Zach Wilson trying to swipe in to facilities only for the door to not open and he hits his face. Then hears, pay us back all of that money we gave you, keep a few packs of cigarettes for yourself. That's all you're worth.

Fully guaranteed contracts in the NFL with a hard cap would be a disaster. It's bad enough many players don't live up to their contracts, imagine the problems if they were fully guaranteed.

I think you might be agreeing with me? Not sure I follow how your post relates to mine....

 

[Flamma]

You dont need to be knowledgeable to speak on topics around this place....lol
We clearly have discussion going on about how to run teams from dozens of people in here that have not had 1 day in a management position in their life, and certainly ave no experience running a pro sports team. Yet we have lots of "Ëxperts." So who needs knowledge?

It helps if you have knowledge on the topic. It can get tiring explaining something. I'm guilty of it too. I've had multiple people correct me over time. I was probably a bother to them. How many people think once a player gets an extension their rookie contract is now gone? They're playing for more money. I'd say over 50% of this board. Some understand it, but most don't. Then they get angry at the player. But it couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[Flamma]

I think you might be agreeing with me? Not sure I follow how your post relates to mine....

I agree with you. I just added a bunch of crap.

 

[fivetwos]

This is another topic I can see each side of the debate on.

One thing to keep in mind…the other three major pro sports, the contracts are fully guaranteed per standard. In the NFL they are not.

Personally I’d be more sympathetic toward a NFL player seeking their second contract (first big payday) as opposed to a vet who has already been paid but just wants more.

What Martin pulled last year was pure crap, but he is a fan favorite and it was pretty much swept under the rug. He then went out and showed signs of decline (although that’s still better than most).

Things like 5th year options and franchise tags are things that were collectively bargained by the Union they belong to. Not everyone sees it that way.

Some guys have leverage and can threaten to withhold services if they choose. I do believe this was sort of addressed in the last CBA, where the fines can no longer be forgiven….but the QB salaries are so out of hand the fines don’t impact things much.

 

[Reid1boys]

It helps if you have knowledge on the topic. It can get tiring explaining something. I'm guilty of it too. I've had multiple people correct me over time. I was probably a bother to them. How many people think once a player gets an extension their rookie contract is now gone? They're playing for more money. I'd say over 50% of this board. Some understand it, but most don't. Then they get angry at the player. But it couldn't be further from the truth.

They get angry at the player for not showing up. CeeDee Lamb has had his 5th year option exercised. That means he is UNDER CONTRACT. But where is he? He has no option to tell the team that he doesnt want that option exercised. And again, that 5th year isnt something the team arbitrarily did. That 5th year was something the players agreed to, but so many players violate the terms of the CBA, and then it is fans in here saying the team is in the wrong. I just dont get it.

And yes, there is no such thing as outperforming a contract. Some people just have deals that arent good, but they are still contracts. The player getting the most screwed in the entire NFL right now, and it isnt even close is Brock Purdy. And explain to me where he is at? Not sitting out. If I were his agent, Id tell him to sit out right now. I dont care if he has only played 2 seasons. 1,2,3, or 4 years played, what is the difference? Purdy and Lamb are both under contract. Only Purdy is getting underpaid by about 40 plus million if you want to say players have the right to sit out.

 

[Reid1boys]

This is another topic I can see each side of the debate on.

One thing to keep in mind…the other three major pro sports, the contracts are fully guaranteed per standard. In the NFL they are not.

Personally I’d be more sympathetic toward a NFL player seeking their second contract (first big payday) as opposed to a vet who has already been paid but just wants more.

What Martin pulled last year was pure crap, but he is a fan favorite and it was pretty much swept under the rug. He then went out and showed signs of decline (although that’s still better than most).

Things like 5th year options and franchise tags are things that were collectively bargained by the Union they belong to. Not everyone sees it that way.

Some guys have leverage and can threaten to withhold services if they choose. I do believe this was sort of addressed in the last CBA, where the fines can no longer be forgiven….but the QB salaries are so out of hand the fines don’t impact things much.

They only have leverage because the teams cave. I would never cave. The rules are the rules. The CBA, as you stated, was collectively bargained for. if we tag a player, too bad. But these players say nope... Im not letting you do what the CBA allows you to do. So sit, and get nothing. IM ok with that. You think if CeeDee didnt show up this season that fans would stop watching, or stop going to games? Nope. It would be next man up.... see ya CeeDee. Let me know when you are ready to play again. Until then, pound rocks.

 

[fivetwos]

They only have leverage because the teams cave. I would never cave. The rules are the rules. The CBA, as you stated, was collectively bargained for. if we tag a player, too bad. But these players say nope... Im not letting you do what the CBA allows you to do. So sit, and get nothing. IM ok with that. You think if CeeDee didnt show up this season that fans would stop watching, or stop going to games? Nope. It would be next man up.... see ya CeeDee. Let me know when you are ready to play again. Until then, pound rocks.

I know what you mean and don’t disagree.

The Elliott Cabo thing still irritates me. He would still be there if it were up to me.

In the case of our team, Jerry always figures the upcoming year is the Super Bowl year so we can’t go without (fill in blank with player name)……so he caves.

I’m not fully aware of the new rules on fines, but if you’re not a QB it wouldn’t seem to add up to not show up…..but then there’s the malcontent factor.

I don’t think GB traded Adams because they think he stinks at football as one example.

 

[Chasing6]

Please explain to me how a team that cuts a player did not honor the contract? It is very frustrating to have discussions in this forum when some of us dont understand the most basic elements of the discussion.

Yousee, cutting a player is absolutely PART of the contract. The team ALWAYS andI mean ALWAYS honors the contract. If they didnt, it would cost them even more money. Teams dont have the option of not honoring player contracts.

The only people that dont honor the contract are the players.

Imagine Diggs showing up for work this year at training camp and the team saying, we arent allowing you into training camp. We dont want to pay you until you renegotiate this deal down.

Did Gallup get cut? Did they honor his entire contract? No they did not.

Contracts are not 100% guaranteed. Players get cut to save money all the time.

 

[Chasing6]

Please explain to me how a team that cuts a player did not honor the contract? It is very frustrating to have discussions in this forum when some of us dont understand the most basic elements of the discussion.

Yousee, cutting a player is absolutely PART of the contract. The team ALWAYS andI mean ALWAYS honors the contract. If they didnt, it would cost them even more money. Teams dont have the option of not honoring player contracts.

The only people that dont honor the contract are the players.

Imagine Diggs showing up for work this year at training camp and the team saying, we arent allowing you into training camp. We dont want to pay you until you renegotiate this deal down.

Pretty sure the Niners did that to Jimmy G.

 

[Reid1boys]

Did Gallup get cut? Did they honor his entire contract? No they did not.

Contracts are not 100% guaranteed. Players get cut to save money all the time.

What part of this do you not understand? CUTTING A PLAYER is actually PART OF THE CONTRACT. So to answer your question, yes, they did honor the contract.

 

[Reid1boys]

Pretty sure the Niners did that to Jimmy G.

ahhh.... ok, now I get it. You dont seem to understand that players are not guaranteed to actually play. The contract ensures they get paid...... cash money.
Teams will and do tell players to stay home while under contract. This happens when a team has decided to let a player walk after the season ends. But if the player gets hurt during the current season, the team is on the hook for that players salary next season. So again, under the terms of the actual CONTRACT, teams had actually paid players to stay home. But you see the most important part of what I just state was that the teams actually still PAY THE PLAYER. They dont tell them to stay home and then not pay them. That would be VIOLATING the contract. Teams do not violate contracts, only players do. As soon as you accept that sentence as a FACT, it will be much easier on you moving forward..
One more time. Teams always honor the contracts. The only parties to the contract that do not honor the contract is the players.... ALWAYS!

 

[Flamma]

They get angry at the player for not showing up. CeeDee Lamb has had his 5th year option exercised. That means he is UNDER CONTRACT. But where is he? He has no option to tell the team that he doesnt want that option exercised. And again, that 5th year isnt something the team arbitrarily did. That 5th year was something the players agreed to, but so many players violate the terms of the CBA, and then it is fans in here saying the team is in the wrong. I just dont get it.

And yes, there is no such thing as outperforming a contract. Some people just have deals that arent good, but they are still contracts. The player getting the most screwed in the entire NFL right now, and it isnt even close is Brock Purdy. And explain to me where he is at? Not sitting out. If I were his agent, Id tell him to sit out right now. I dont care if he has only played 2 seasons. 1,2,3, or 4 years played, what is the difference? Purdy and Lamb are both under contract. Only Purdy is getting underpaid by about 40 plus million if you want to say players have the right to sit out.

I don't disagree with any of this. But QBs don't hold out. You've noticed that, right? Besides that, Brock Purdy can't sit out. He has to play 3 years before getting an extension.

 

[Chasing6]

ahhh.... ok, now I get it. You dont seem to understand that players are not guaranteed to actually play. The contract ensures they get paid...... cash money.
Teams will and do tell players to stay home while under contract. This happens when a team has decided to let a player walk after the season ends. But if the player gets hurt during the current season, the team is on the hook for that players salary next season. So again, under the terms of the actual CONTRACT, teams had actually paid players to stay home. But you see the most important part of what I just state was that the teams actually still PAY THE PLAYER. They dont tell them to stay home and then not pay them. That would be VIOLATING the contract. Teams do not violate contracts, only players do. As soon as you accept that sentence as a FACT, it will be much easier on you moving forward..
One more time. Teams always honor the contracts. The only parties to the contract that do not honor the contract is the players.... ALWAYS!

Ah ok, I get it. You have no clue what you are talking about. The Niners were trying to trade Jimmy G and would not let him work out with the team at camp. Then Trance got hurt again and they had to let Jimmy play.

Jimmy did not have a contract for next season.

So if a player signs a 4 year deal worth $40M and a $10M signing bonus and gets cut after year one, did the player get $40M? No he did not. The full contract was not honored.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

There needs to be a QB cap because the cost is just going to increase every time a QB gets a new deal.

I hate to bring up Dak but let's say the Cowboys (or some other team, not getting into that here) give him around $58 million per year and make him the NFL's highest paid player.

How long do you honestly think he would hold that post? Jordan Love and Brock Purdy would beat that when their time comes. Imagine what C.J. Stroud is going to be able to ask for in a few years.

This is why the Cowboys should have paid Dak a long time ago. Because not too long after the fan base and CowboysZone implodes, some other QB would beat him out anyway.

 

[Chasing6]

There needs to be a QB cap because the cost is just going to increase every time a QB gets a new deal.

I hate to bring up Dak but let's say the Cowboys (or some other team, not getting into that here) give him around $58 million per year and make him the NFL's highest paid player.

How long do you honestly think he would hold that post? Jordan Love and Brock Purdy would beat that when their time comes. Imagine what C.J. Stroud is going to be able to ask for in a few years.

This is why the Cowboys should have paid Dak a long time ago. Because not too long after the fan base and CowboysZone implodes, some other QB would beat him out anyway.

Don't be surprised when Jordan Love gets a new deal before Prescott.