Florio makes my point about contracts/QB Salary Cap?

[thunderpimp91]

Mike Florio was discussing the fact it is said owners are discussing the possibility of a QB salary cap. I find that to be quite interesting, but he went on to discuss Josh Allens deal that will pay him 45 million this year..... or the deal avgs 45 million. Anyways, he was saying how Allen is vastly "Underpaid." Huh???? Dude signed a 6 year extension and had something like 150 million guaranteed. He signed the deal. His agent j knew it was a 6 year deal which they had to know 3 years down the road his deal would be small compared to some others. In any event, it appears Allen is signed through 2028... and yet Florio is already calling for Allen to go back to the Bills to basically say.... hey yo, you know that 1/4 billion dollar deal I signed a couple years ago? well, its time to up the ante.

That is total BS IMo. 4 more years remaining on his deal and the Bills are supposed to redo the deal? Funny how I just wrote about this very thing and what a joke these contracts are when players want to just redo a "Contract," as soon as others pass their deal up.

Hold firm Bills, hold firm.

I cant feel sorry for these teams if they cave to contract demands. Ultimately a player is either worthy what they are asking for or they are not. If Josh Allen asks for more money and the Bills don't believe they can be contenders paying him $60m+ then they need to move on and trade him for a massive draft haul, and let him destroy another teams cap

The players are often made out to be the villain in these situations, but it's the teams that allow this to go on.

 

[blueblood70]

Dak already signed a contract and it wasn't team friendly, and it's exactly why we are having such polarizing Dak debates this offseason. I don't blame the guy for signing the deal he did, and to a large extent this is more a Jerry/Stephen issue than a Dak one, but reality is Dak took these guys to the cleaners in negotiations at every level.

Mahomes/Allen are at bargain prices right now because of the deals they signed right around the same time Dak signed his second contract. Dak at 6+ years instead of 4 at $40M per gives the Cowboys a bargain right now too.

See this is where hypocrisy comes in this is a completely backward statement you do realize that mahomes have gotten bumps and pay every single year since his contract almost they were small but somehow they had a side deal raising his pay to make sure he's still top five.. And now these allegedly bargain prices Allen is going to be one of the ones probably where there's smoke there's fire already going to come back and probably hold out for more money long before that contract is up So what good is the contract if these players are going to sign them they seem team friendly and then they come back and hold out and by the way look at what's going on in Buffalo he signed A-Team friendly deal apparently to you that's not team friendly to me because they had some void years which are nonsense they're not even real,

put back on point,

they literally dismantled buffalo's team, HIS OL needs rebuild, no elite #1 WR, didnt they just change the rb? or something, nothing about that team looks like its being built to win a SB ,who never even got to a Super Bowl under Allen's rookie contract or under his new deal, and now have taken away a lot of weapons the same way they done with Patrick Mahomes...

so these players are supposed to take discounts and then wait around for the team to actually use the money to put better players on the team around them and it's not happening they're literally going in the other direction a lot of teams are actually taking weapons away...

So you're gonna stay here with a straight face and believe that if Prescott would have took less money back in 2020 for one that he wouldn't already be back looking for a new deal which I know he would his agents aren't stupid and for two you think Jerry Jones like many teams was going to go out and use that extra money and just literally go all in and just put a super team together?? Show me the evidence players and agents know this and they're not going to do discounts like you said you can't blame the guy well there's a reason they're doing this because I see guys getting cut/traded like Hopkins, Adams, Hill, Barkley, Both Browns, and too many to list, and their teams not replacing them with similar or Better talent. other players holding out because of it..

 

[Creeper]

I agree a contract is a contract and should be honored. After all, who didn't know QBs would be getting paid more now than a few years ago?

As for players getting cut, a contract is a two way deal. The team pays the player for a certain level of performance. If he does not perform at that level then he is not living up to his end of the deal. Cutting him is fair, just like a breach of any other contract voids the contract. Also, players today get a lot of their money up front in bonuses or guaranteed money. The get or keep that money whether they get cut or not. Seems fair to me.

 

[Chasing6]

I agree a contract is a contract and should be honored. After all, who didn't know QBs would be getting paid more now than a few years ago?

As for players getting cut, a contract is a two way deal. The team pays the player for a certain level of performance. If he does not perform at that level then he is not living up to his end of the deal. Cutting him is fair, just like a breach of any other contract voids the contract. Also, players today get a lot of their money up front in bonuses or guaranteed money. The get or keep that money whether they get cut or not. Seems fair to me.

So if a player does not live up to the contract he can be released or traded, but if he out performs it he should honor it?

Agents are not that stupid.

 

[fivetwos]

I only see one legit contending team (SF) that isn’t paying a QB big money, or is about to (GB, Mia).

Why does this supposedly hamstring certain teams but not others?

If nearly every team is paying in the 50m range for their QB, they are all at the same disadvantage, so the playing field is level.

What am I missing?

 

[Diehardblues]

It's called a contract, an agreement between two parties. The players have a union and the framework is collectively bargained to the satisfaction of both sides. Then the player contracts are negotiated with the teams under those terms. The players make a fixed percentage of league revenue which is, again, collectively bargained. All of this is known up front.

These are multimillion dollar athletes who make far more in signing bonus of one contract than the average person will make in his lifetime. And if they don't like the terms, they don't have to sign the contract. Simple.

Any even remote conparison to slavery is insane and, frankly, insulting.

And they have the right to pursue renegotiating their contract. Owners have the right to stand firm risking the player sitting out. Which is what the OP was suggesting .

Not sure what the problem is . The attitudes I’m sensing is like to the contracts we had before Free Agency which was often referenced by some players as slavery .

We all know that it wasn’t that bad obviously but was used to reflect the intent of not allowing players to exercise free market place.

 

[Chasing6]

I only see one legit contending team (SF) that isn’t paying a QB big money, or is about to (GB, Mia).

Why does this supposedly hamstring certain teams but not others?

If nearly every team is paying in the 50m range for their QB, they are all at the same disadvantage, so the playing field is level.

What am I missing?

No you are not missing anything. We have arguable the worst GM in the league that has the unconditional support of the Owner.

 

[thunderpimp91]

See this is where hypocrisy comes in this is a completely backward statement you do realize that mahomes have gotten bumps and pay every single year since his contract almost they were small but somehow they had a side deal raising his pay to make sure he's still top five.. And now these allegedly bargain prices Allen is going to be one of the ones probably where there's smoke there's fire already going to come back and probably hold out for more money long before that contract is up So what good is the contract if these players are going to sign them they seem team friendly and then they come back and hold out and by the way look at what's going on in Buffalo he signed A-Team friendly deal apparently to you that's not team friendly to me because they had some void years which are nonsense they're not even real,

put back on point,

they literally dismantled buffalo's team, HIS OL needs rebuild, no elite #1 WR, didnt they just change the rb? or something, nothing about that team looks like its being built to win a SB ,who never even got to a Super Bowl under Allen's rookie contract or under his new deal, and now have taken away a lot of weapons the same way they done with Patrick Mahomes...

so these players are supposed to take discounts and then wait around for the team to actually use the money to put better players on the team around them and it's not happening they're literally going in the other direction a lot of teams are actually taking weapons away...

So you're gonna stay here with a straight face and believe that if Prescott would have took less money back in 2020 for one that he wouldn't already be back looking for a new deal which I know he would his agents aren't stupid and for two you think Jerry Jones like many teams was going to go out and use that extra money and just literally go all in and just put a super team together?? Show me the evidence players and agents know this and they're not going to do discounts like you said you can't blame the guy well there's a reason they're doing this because I see guys getting cut/traded like Hopkins, Adams, Hill, Barkley, Both Browns, and too many to list, and their teams not replacing them with similar or Better talent. other players holding out because of it..

Mahomes has gotten pay bumps for sure, but still 10/450 is 10/450 at the end of the day, it's just a matter of how it gets broken up. From a fan standpoint though all we really care about is the cap hits and how those are broken down. Mahomes will be roughly $20M cheaper than Dak in Cap money this year, and while they have some issues coming up where he will be north of $60M starting next season there is still plenty of room at the tail end of his deal to restructure and push money back if they need to. Part of this is also because in 2020 and 2021 they structured his deal so he would count just $5M and $7M against the cap. Over the life of his contract everything is still going to average $45M per year regardless of how they break it down. If Dak were on a 6 year deal the Cowboys would still have two additional years to move $160M total dollars around as the cap continues to increase. IDK if he would have held out this year for a new contract or not if he had a longer agreement, but so far Allen/Mahomes are not.


And I'm not saying at all that Dak should take less money or that he should have taken less money back in 2020. I think you're right that even with them taking less money there is zero guarantee that teams will spend the money saved....or at least do so responsibly. I was speaking directly to Rockport's post about maybe Dak will sign a team friendly deal. Dak clearly didn't sign a team friendly deal, I think Allen & Mahomes both did. Allen and Mahomes both have longer deals than Dak, they also don't have the no trade/no tag clauses in their deals.

Again though I'm not being critical of Dak for taking that deal, this is a GM issue, not a QB issue. If teams cant afford these massive QB contracts and still field a competitive team around them they should move on to a cheaper QB or hire a better GM.

 

[Creeper]

So if a player does not live up to the contract he can be released or traded, but if he out performs it he should honor it?

Agents are not that stupid.

If a construction company signs a contract to build a building in 6 months in return for $2 million and they build it in 3 months, can the company demand a higher payment in violation of the terms of the contract? Of course they can demand more money, but the other party has no obligation to pay them more money. After all, the construction company puts its best offer on the table and the other party agrees to the terms stipulated in the contract. That is how contracts work.

Why should player contracts be any different? If a player thinks the contract will not meet his level of performance he can add in incentives should be exceed his past level of performance. And that is the point, both parties put their demands on the table and they agree to the deal. A player cannot ask for more money because he had a good year any more than a team can cut a player's salary because he didn't meeting his previous performance levels. Of course the team can cut or trade the player, that is no doubt in the terms of the contract as well.

 

[DAL1180]

Well GM's and Owners can cut players/trade players who have a contract correct? So if a player wants to go basically on strike for a new deal or a new team why not? These are not 100% guaranteed contracts like MLB.

If a team can trade a player, maybe the player should be able to trade the team.

And they shouldn't be %100 guaranteed. The number of these "Mega deals" that actually pan out for both sides is not very high. Use baseball as an example. How many of these guys really produce at the level they are getting paid? And for how many years do they produce at that level?

 

[dogunwo]

Maybe the NFL can have a one time amnesty rule, where they can have one player's contract not counting towards the salary cap. That's be cool.

 

[baltcowboy]

If the Cowboys would’ve signed Dak when he had 2 years left on his deal he too would’ve had 6 years. They keep waiting to the absolute last minute to sign him.

Dak was never going to give the Cowboys a break. Why do you think he hired France in the first place. Todd goes for the jugular. The Joneses want to win the deal so they wait to last second to get the deal done. It is absolutely hilarious that the media thinks this deal could have been done last offseason. Dak has always been looking for the best deal. Not gonna get that until March of 2025. Dak wouldn’t have signed the last contract if the Cowboys didn’t offer the short term deal, no trade clause, and no franchise tag. Dak is hitting free agency unless the Cowboys give him $60 million a season.

 

[Vtwin]

If the Cowboys would’ve signed Dak when he had 2 years left on his deal he too would’ve had 6 years. They keep waiting to the absolute last minute to sign him.

You can keep repeating this over and over but it still won't be true.

A short contract specifically designed to get to that next contract as soon as possible was always Dak's goal. Which, of course is why he turned down two very good offers in the two years leading up to his eventual signing.

Then there is that other little thing of how rookies aren't even eligible for an extension until after their third season so they couldn't even legally sign Dak with "2 years left on his deal".

 

[John813]

Next time the Owners should suggest contracts can't be negotiated till 1 year is left on the deal.
Although the NFL has a fluid cap structure that is unique among the big 4 with restructuring, which definitely helps GMs field a competitive team while being under a hard cap.

I'm not for sure why this topic is a big deal though.
This is just about a handful of players that actually have that power to ask for a raise while still under a deal with more than 1 year left.

 

[Chasing6]

You can keep repeating this over and over but it still won't be true.

A short contract specifically designed to get to that next contract as soon as possible was always Dak's goal. Which, of course is why he turned down two very good offers in the two years leading up to his eventual signing.

Then there is that other little thing of how rookies aren't even eligible for an extension until after their third season so they couldn't even legally sign Dak with "2 years left on his deal".

Dead Cap space is a reflection of the GM.

 

[fivetwos]

Dead Cap space is a reflection of the GM.

That should be considered during his annual HR review.

 

[thunderpimp91]

And they shouldn't be %100 guaranteed. The number of these "Mega deals" that actually pan out for both sides is not very high. Use baseball as an example. How many of these guys really produce at the level they are getting paid? And for how many years do they produce at that level?

I know this is completely off topic from your point, however I often wonder about how the MLB system would translate to football. The short answer is poorly as it really doesn't even work in baseball as small market teams mostly sacrifice nearly a decade for a short window to compete before tearing down again.

On the flip side a soft cap + a luxury tax for teams and six year rookie deals would be very interesting to watch. You wouldn't have the extreme payroll differences where some teams simply cannot compete from day 1, but there would be a clear difference from large and small market spending. Star players would more consistently be traded to big market teams to maximize merch sales and exposure, but drafts would be dominated by these smaller market teams and would be rewarded with longer control over draftees.

It would be a completely different league, but I'm slowly starting to come around to it.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Dak was never going to give the Cowboys a break. Why do you think he hired France in the first place. Todd goes for the jugular. The Joneses want to win the deal so they wait to last second to get the deal done. It is absolutely hilarious that the media thinks this deal could have been done last offseason. Dak has always been looking for the best deal. Not gonna get that until March of 2025. Dak wouldn’t have signed the last contract if the Cowboys didn’t offer the short term deal, no trade clause, and no franchise tag. Dak is hitting free agency unless the Cowboys give him $60 million a season.

Signing two years before his deal is done isn’t a break. You still have to overpay to do it. But it would’ve even cheaper then the alternative.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

You can keep repeating this over and over but it still won't be true.

A short contract specifically designed to get to that next contract as soon as possible was always Dak's goal. Which, of course is why he turned down two very good offers in the two years leading up to his eventual signing.

Then there is that other little thing of how rookies aren't even eligible for an extension until after their third season so they couldn't even legally sign Dak with "2 years left on his deal".

You are correct. Had they signed him with a year left it would’ve been cheaper then signing him with a year left and franchise tags.

 

[blueblood70]

Mahomes has gotten pay bumps for sure, but still 10/450 is 10/450 at the end of the day, it's just a matter of how it gets broken up. From a fan standpoint though all we really care about is the cap hits and how those are broken down. Mahomes will be roughly $20M cheaper than Dak in Cap money this year, and while they have some issues coming up where he will be north of $60M starting next season there is still plenty of room at the tail end of his deal to restructure and push money back if they need to. Part of this is also because in 2020 and 2021 they structured his deal so he would count just $5M and $7M against the cap. Over the life of his contract everything is still going to average $45M per year regardless of how they break it down. If Dak were on a 6 year deal the Cowboys would still have two additional years to move $160M total dollars around as the cap continues to increase. IDK if he would have held out this year for a new contract or not if he had a longer agreement, but so far Allen/Mahomes are not.


And I'm not saying at all that Dak should take less money or that he should have taken less money back in 2020. I think you're right that even with them taking less money there is zero guarantee that teams will spend the money saved....or at least do so responsibly. I was speaking directly to Rockport's post about maybe Dak will sign a team friendly deal. Dak clearly didn't sign a team friendly deal, I think Allen & Mahomes both did. Allen and Mahomes both have longer deals than Dak, they also don't have the no trade/no tag clauses in their deals.

Again though I'm not being critical of Dak for taking that deal, this is a GM issue, not a QB issue. If teams cant afford these massive QB contracts and still field a competitive team around them they should move on to a cheaper QB or hire a better GM.

the fact that he's 11th or 12th on the aav list now says itr wasn't a bad deal for the team. kind of a wash IMHO. trust me agents know how to forecast deals and caps and he would have signed this TFD you speak of 3 years later he would have asked for more.. plus I don't think the jones family will ever do a 6+ year deal, haven't seen it and the void years are fake, all deals have those daks actually had those added recently.