Florio makes my point about contracts/QB Salary Cap?

[ghst187]

Max contracts based on the cap make a lot of sense.

I suggested this idea a few years ago bc of how outrageous the contracts for one player are getting and it comes at expense of nearly every other player at every position.
There has to be two parts to it…
1) a max contract scale based on % of total allowable cap. IMO 10-15% of total cap is more than fair.
2) a super max option which gives home teams a slight advantage to keep homegrown talent a la NBA, either by allowing them to pay more or sign a year sooner.

 

[thunderpimp91]

this clearly shows what never fans think it don't matter it's clearly a quarterback market and Prescott is as good or better than most of those guys on the list deserved his last contract and should get a bigger one he should be around 56 million that's the way I'm seeing it sign in now or pay later because if you think you're gonna find a quarterback really easy find out why Daniel Jones is not far down that list and people are being overpaid or you do stupid things like San Francisco did in the draft and give three first round picks for a guy like Trey Lance that's how hard it is to find a quarterback that's my point he was paid exactly when he should have been paid it doesn't matter team friendly or not or your view the man has gotten better since he's been paid I mean his ankle got broke off and he's had two really above average years even for standards from that list... So my opinion he got what he was worth and it was not taking Jerry to the cleaners and he would not have signed a deal cheaper earlier like everyone keeps saying because if he did three years after he'd had his hand out because of that list says he should be in the top five in money.... When guys like Trevor Lawrence and Herbert and Murray and others have done absolutely nothing to earn it got their money and you get it fully guaranteed money from a guy like Watson at 250 million that shows Prescott and his age is exactly why he deserves to be one of the top paid in the league regardless of playoff success because most of the people on that list have no playoff success not that they carried the team kind...

T-1	Joe Burrow	Cincinnati Bengals	$55 million NO SB wins
T-1	Trevor Lawrence	Jacksonville Jaguars	$55 million Nothing at all dumb deal
3	Jared Goff	Detroit Lions	$53 million HUH TBD but no SB wins 2 gnat deals
4	Justin Herbert	Los Angeles Chargers	$52.5 million another head scratcher paid for market due potential
5	Lamar Jackson	Baltimore Ravens	$52 million not better than Dak inthe payoffs 2 wins
6	Jalen Hurts	Philadelphia Eagles	$51 million his team actuall spending money so deal doesn hurt but no SB wins
7	Kyler Murray	Arizona Cardinals	$46.1 million nada zip ouch overpaid
8	Deshaun Watson	Cleveland Browns	$46 million worst deal ever!!
T-9	Patrick Mahomes	Kansas City Chiefs	$45 million YUP Only one paying dividends but teams not spending ALL IN money
T-9	Kirk Cousins	Atlanta Falcons	$45 million laugher 2nd highest al time qb earning ever nothig to show for it.
11	Josh Allen	Buffalo Bills	$43 million already talked about it..

Again I I'm arguing with you on Dak being worth the money. My argument is simply that longer deals are more team friendly. Dak at 7yrs/$40M is better for the team than 4yrs/$40M. I'm very confused as to why you keep bringing up anti Dak talking points and inserting them into the conversation like its my argument.

 

[blueblood70]

Dak, CeeDee, and Parsons are 3 of the top 20 players in the league. Their agents would be fired if they don’t get their guys top dollar.

I still don't see your point,

they literally have to negotiate there is no open negotiation where they leave a contract sitting on a table and let the agents and players fill in whatever they want with an open check,

and top dollar to me is top five money it doesn't necessarily have to be new market money isn't that doesn't have to necessarily mean the most money ever outside of a quarterback in a positional player it does not mean that... There are a lot of things in these contracts that can be negotiated there not easy they are complicated and yes the agent should be pushing for as much money as possible but some to the owners, are you kidding me ,just because the billionaires have a lot of money,

the salary cap is not a billion dollars, the salary cap is not open, it is called a cap... they literally should be negotiating trying to make sure they can fit as many of these star players on their team but also be able to build a roster that at least is competitive yearly...

I tried to tell you and you won't listen you literally have it all in front of you lots of these teams have not done that, they have not used these team friendly deals that have backloaded money and built their team into a Super Bowl winner, they have literally not gone all in they have literally not done that there's very few teams that do ,do that, and the Eagles have and somehow we beat the Eagles twice in the last three years for the division even though they're the big spenders they're the ones making fans think that this is normal for you to make deals all year long all the way through the offseason and the trade deadline and then the moves do what give you a monumental collapse on the back and of the season and give the division to the Cowboys twice??​

You keep missing the point and that's just your own problem..

I'm saying these players know their agents know they look around the league and go well all the players that have given the team A Team friendly deal, are they going out and using the money to build a Super Bowl winner, not potentially a Super Bowl appearance, but a winner??

they're not, the Kansas City Chiefs over the last three seasons they've spent the least amount of money from where I've seen, I mean I don't study their salary cap and what they've done but they got rid of more stars than they brought on they literally run their franchise and I don't want to say exactly like the Joneses, but like normal NFL teams do..

they don't all run high risk all in scenarios every year.. I don't remember them spending big in free agency recently, I remember them having running back by committees wide receiver by committees drafting well making a smart trade here there but even them and I already brought this up let Chris Jones just hang out there he's their best defensive player all these team friendly deals all these moves and yet they make Chris Jones wait till a week before the season starts to pay him?!

and somehow the Cowboys FO are the only ones that seem to get Flack from our fan base for doing these kinds of things with negotiations?

 

[blueblood70]

Again I I'm arguing with you on Dak being worth the money. My argument is simply that longer deals are more team friendly. Dak at 7yrs/$40M is better for the team than 4yrs/$40M. I'm very confused as to why you keep bringing up anti Dak talking points and inserting them into the conversation like its my argument.

Because I'm telling you they added those void years anyway that you don't seem to acknowledge it wasn't just four years at 40 million it literally later on they moved some money down the road I don't remember if they called it a restructure but they added the voidable years to it so they can move the cap further down the road it's already happened... I think they're allowed to do that anytime during any of the contracts they just come in they do it they have the players sign off on it they give him a little something and then they move forward.. It's just it's come due and it's time to pay the piper and they have to decide whether you're keeping him and I'm talking about all of them just like you were I don't think you should pay CD Lam and Micah Parsons the next mega contract that's not a quarterback contract because I don't think they need to do that at least Trayvon diggs got a top four contract and was happy with it he slipped to five now but that's what we need from these guys it doesn't have to be team friendly it could just mean let's not hold the team up for the biggest contract in the history of the NFL let's slide down hey how about take #4 and help the team a little bit and you're still a mega millionaire you still are set for life.. I guess my point is you keep making it like Prescott should have done this yeah all these other players around the league are not doing it you only cited one or two players this is not really happening... I'm done with this conversation it doesn't matter if I believe a Prescott's not our quarterback in 2025 it's not gonna matter most of these players are gonna be traded including Trayvon diggs and this team is gonna look very different because Martin's gonna be gone tanks gonna be gone we won't have any stars and maybe you guys will be finally happy that the Cowboys will have to make a bunch of big moves and be in the top five of the draft because we're gonna suck for a while and y'all are finally be happy because when you say we actually suck in our average and are not winning you'll actually be correct instead of wrong...

Some of you will really get a taste of the Dave campo years cause you forget and the bad quarterback years where you run through 12 quarterbacks like some of these other teams are doing right now trying to find one that's even near dax level and at least Prescott's got us in the playoffs 5 out of eight years how about we go in the next 5 out of eight years below 500 how do you know that's not gonna happen that's being my point Prescott got what he earned and if we get rid of him it's gonna be an eye opening moment if we can't find his replacement we got lucky between Romo and Prescott but that look can run out and we can have another one of those 12 bad quarterbacks until we find a new one scenarios and that means we're gonna be griping about not even being close to the playoffs versus being one and done in the playoffs and I personally would rather be winning divisions and going to the playoffs versus not the money doesn't matter to me it's not my money the salary cap doesn't matter to me making the playoffs is important because that's the number one goal when the division make the playoffs let's goal one and two when you start the season..

 

[Flamma]

How is there no way to implement it if both sides recognize it as problematic and agree to discuss amending the current agreement?

I understand it’s a big if but it’s not an impossibility.

I've been in a union for over 35 years. I can tell you how they can do it. It's through a Memorandum of Agreement, or MOA. Both sides have to agree. But why would they? What's in it for the NFLPA? This is something that would benefit the owners. The NFL would have to give up something substantial to get the NFLPA to agree to this. Just from experience, 95% of proposed MOAs are shot down without even a vote. For example. A few years back the employer I work for offered every union member 5000 dollars to go to a bi-weekly paycheck as opposed to the weekly paycheck we get now. It wasn't even put to a vote for lack of interest.

 

[Flamma]

But they had to have the right culture and staff too.

Of course. But good God, they had draft heaven. Remember our '95 Cowboys? They won despite the coaching staff. That was Jimmy's team.

 

[fivetwos]

I've been in a union for over 35 years. I can tell you how they can do it. It's through a Memorandum of Agreement, or MOA. Both sides have to agree. But why would they? What's in it for the NFLPA? This is something that would benefit the owners. The NFL would have to give up something substantial to get the NFLPA to agree to this. Just from experience, 95% of proposed MOAs are shot down without even a vote. For example. A few years back the employer I work for offered every union member 5000 dollars to go to a bi-weekly paycheck as opposed to the weekly paycheck we get now. It wasn't even put to a vote for lack of interest.

Gotcha, but the NFL is much more public and also has a commission that is responsible for protecting what best for the game.

I originally outlined the scenario as potentially becoming problematic within the union itself. Resolving that may be what’s in it for them.

Giving the players less of a piece of the pie than they already have is of course a non-starter. I get that, but the owners aren’t making any more or less money. There wouldn’t be a smaller share of profits going to players….the only difference is preventing such an inordinate share of the cap going to one player and allowing it to be spread around a bit more.

 

[Flamma]

Gotcha, but the NFL is much more public and also has a commission that is responsible for protecting what best for the game.

I originally outlined the scenario as potentially becoming problematic within the union itself. Resolving that may be what’s in it for them.

Giving the players less of a piece of the pie than they already have is of course a non-starter. I get that, but the owners aren’t making any more or less money. There wouldn’t be a smaller share of profits going to players….the only difference is preventing such an inordinate share of the cap going to one player and allowing it to be spread around a bit more.

Understood. But you have to know that the league is not overly concerned with what is best for the game. They are concerned with what is best for the bottom line. Kickoffs from the 35 yard line pretty much make that case.

 

[VaqueroTD]

I remember the days when guys like Michael Jordan and Nolan Ryan honored their measley $1-$3 million long-term contract as the free agent market started going crazy. Won’t find that same type of ‘honor with contract’ anymore.

 

[fivetwos]

Understood. But you have to know that the league is not overly concerned with what is best for the game. They are concerned with what is best for the bottom line. Kickoffs from the 35 yard line pretty much make that case.

Can’t argue that.

 

[glimmerman]

Lmao josh allen threw 18 picks this year. And 78 picks in 6 years. If I was him I would have signed it to.

 

[glimmerman]

And the owners need to get with the NFLPA and work out a cap for each position that goes up with the salary cap. It’s gonna get out of hand. It’s part of the reason the cap was put in place but agents and players that are elite take advantage of it. Now the owners are getting paid also. But a pay scale would put things together to allow teams to have more evenly talented teams and would make for better games.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Of course. But good God, they had draft heaven. Remember our '95 Cowboys? They won despite the coaching staff. That was Jimmy's team.

They won because culture was in place. They were proven winners and added the best cornerback of all time. There was no stopping them not even Barry lol.

 

[Chasing6]

Mike Florio was discussing the fact it is said owners are discussing the possibility of a QB salary cap. I find that to be quite interesting, but he went on to discuss Josh Allens deal that will pay him 45 million this year..... or the deal avgs 45 million. Anyways, he was saying how Allen is vastly "Underpaid." Huh???? Dude signed a 6 year extension and had something like 150 million guaranteed. He signed the deal. His agent j knew it was a 6 year deal which they had to know 3 years down the road his deal would be small compared to some others. In any event, it appears Allen is signed through 2028... and yet Florio is already calling for Allen to go back to the Bills to basically say.... hey yo, you know that 1/4 billion dollar deal I signed a couple years ago? well, its time to up the ante.

That is total BS IMo. 4 more years remaining on his deal and the Bills are supposed to redo the deal? Funny how I just wrote about this very thing and what a joke these contracts are when players want to just redo a "Contract," as soon as others pass their deal up.

Hold firm Bills, hold firm.

How come when the Cap goes up league minimum and vet minimum $'s do not go up? Maybe that is a way to help fix QB contracts.

 

[jaythecowboy]

Right, but let's not gloss over the fact that he turned down an offer at top market value because it was for five years and not the four he demanded.

Blaming Jerry for not signing him earlier, like you did, is just not accurate. There's more than enough to bash Jerry about without making stuff up.

Wentz and Goff both got four year extensions. To get Dak to agree to a five year extension they would have had to go up on the average per year and guarantees.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I suggested this idea a few years ago bc of how outrageous the contracts for one player are getting and it comes at expense of nearly every other player at every position.
There has to be two parts to it…
1) a max contract scale based on % of total allowable cap. IMO 10-15% of total cap is more than fair.
2) a super max option which gives home teams a slight advantage to keep homegrown talent a la NBA, either by allowing them to pay more or sign a year sooner.

That is how the NBA does it. I don't know if the supermax is needed with the franchise tag already in place.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wentz and Goff both got four year extensions. To get Dak to agree to a five year extension they would have had to go up on the average per year and guarantees.

I am not sure how contracts from years ago from guys that were on their first free agent contracts applies.

 

[jaythecowboy]

I am not sure how contracts from years ago from guys that were on their first free agent contracts applies.

The comment i responded to was talking about Dak’s previous contract negotiation

 

[Diehardblues]

this clearly shows what never fans think it don't matter it's clearly a quarterback market and Prescott is as good or better than most of those guys on the list deserved his last contract and should get a bigger one he should be around 56 million that's the way I'm seeing it sign in now or pay later because if you think you're gonna find a quarterback really easy find out why Daniel Jones is not far down that list and people are being overpaid or you do stupid things like San Francisco did in the draft and give three first round picks for a guy like Trey Lance that's how hard it is to find a quarterback that's my point he was paid exactly when he should have been paid it doesn't matter team friendly or not or your view the man has gotten better since he's been paid I mean his ankle got broke off and he's had two really above average years even for standards from that list... So my opinion he got what he was worth and it was not taking Jerry to the cleaners and he would not have signed a deal cheaper earlier like everyone keeps saying because if he did three years after he'd had his hand out because of that list says he should be in the top five in money.... When guys like Trevor Lawrence and Herbert and Murray and others have done absolutely nothing to earn it got their money and you get it fully guaranteed money from a guy like Watson at 250 million that shows Prescott and his age is exactly why he deserves to be one of the top paid in the league regardless of playoff success because most of the people on that list have no playoff success not that they carried the team kind...

T-1	Joe Burrow	Cincinnati Bengals	$55 million NO SB wins
T-1	Trevor Lawrence	Jacksonville Jaguars	$55 million Nothing at all dumb deal
3	Jared Goff	Detroit Lions	$53 million HUH TBD but no SB wins 2 gnat deals
4	Justin Herbert	Los Angeles Chargers	$52.5 million another head scratcher paid for market due potential
5	Lamar Jackson	Baltimore Ravens	$52 million not better than Dak inthe payoffs 2 wins
6	Jalen Hurts	Philadelphia Eagles	$51 million his team actuall spending money so deal doesn hurt but no SB wins
7	Kyler Murray	Arizona Cardinals	$46.1 million nada zip ouch overpaid
8	Deshaun Watson	Cleveland Browns	$46 million worst deal ever!!
T-9	Patrick Mahomes	Kansas City Chiefs	$45 million YUP Only one paying dividends but teams not spending ALL IN money
T-9	Kirk Cousins	Atlanta Falcons	$45 million laugher 2nd highest al time qb earning ever nothig to show for it.
11	Josh Allen	Buffalo Bills	$43 million already talked about it..

Burrows, Hurts and Goff all with SB appearances. Allen and Jackson Conf Champ games appearances and Jackson MVP.

The rest are good arguments besides Mahomes of course.

If Dak had made a Champ Game and or won a MVP there wouldn't be a discussion.

 

[Diehardblues]

Of course. But good God, they had draft heaven. Remember our '95 Cowboys? They won despite the coaching staff. That was Jimmy's team.

Yep, and that’s what you need ( the best team in the league) when trying to overcome an ownership who meddles and undermines coaching creating the toxic atmosphere.

It overcame one year in 95 but it cost us 94 and possibly more. That 96 team still had much of that core talent,