Football Outsiders NFL Tier List. Dak B+, mostly positive responses

[CowboyFrog]

Well Idont think Calvin is getting close to 1900 yards, but yes I think they likely do do worse without Jerry. What made Rice as great as he was wasn’t physical talent. Calvin Was far more talented but not the receiver Rice was.

Speculation though right? He was by far thought of as the best WR of his time and played in Detroit..So he is physically better than rice why would he not be as good? I have never heard he had problems running routes nor listening to coaching.

Again most gave Stafford a pass for his years in Detroit and with a super talented team in the Rams he won...why would Megatron not get the same consideration?

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

Speculation though right? He was by far thought of as the best WR of his time and played in Detroit..So he is physically better than rice why would he not be as good? I have never heard he had problems running routes nor listening to coaching.

Again most gave Stafford a pass for his years in Detroit and with a super talented team in the Rams he won...why would Megatron not get the same consideration?

Well, he played WR. Generally only the QB position is weighted by team success. No one is saying Rod Smith was better than Marvin Harrison because he won more rings.

I think it’s a few of the things you mentioned; like just because Calvin wasn’t a deficient route runner doesn’t mean he pales in comparison to the greatest route runner ever. Hands as well, Calvin wasn’t unfamiliar with the drops, and had an unusually low catch % for a perennial pro bowl WR. I think Jerry was a smarter player who understood leverage and matchups maybe better than any WR ever. He was sort of like the Tom Brady of WRs. Tom is slow, weak, has a mediocre arm, but is able to manipulate defenses better than anyone ever.

Calvin, although he retired early, only had a 3 year stretch that puts him in the alltime discussion. His first 4 years and last 2 were not particularly profound. Some of that was injured, but not all of it. Did he suddenly lose his connection to Stafford? Did it take him a few years to develop in the beginning? I think it’s something that both he and Moss weren’t as good at: general consistency at the position. Rice’s career was unbelievable, his work ethic legendary.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Well, he played WR. Generally only the QB position is weighted by team success. No one is saying Rod Smith was better than Marvin Harrison because he won more rings.

I think it’s a few of the things you mentioned; like just because Calvin wasn’t a deficient route runner doesn’t mean he pales in comparison to the greatest route runner ever. Hands as well, Calvin wasn’t unfamiliar with the drops, and had an unusually low catch % for a perennial pro bowl WR. I think Jerry was a smarter player who understood leverage and matchups maybe better than any WR ever. He was sort of like the Tom Brady of WRs. Tom is slow, weak, has a mediocre arm, but is able to manipulate defenses better than anyone ever.

Calvin, although he retired early, only had a 3 year stretch that puts him in the alltime discussion. His first 4 years and last 2 were not particularly profound. Some of that was injured, but not all of it. Did he suddenly lose his connection to Stafford? Did it take him a few years to develop in the beginning? I think it’s something that both he and Moss weren’t as good at: general consistency at the position. Rice’s career was unbelievable, his work ethic legendary.

I agree Rice was great but So was Calvin, thats my point one had a much better circumstance than the other to me. Was it injuries or did he like Sanders walk away because of his circumstance. If he was winning SB and had great teams good chance he keeps playing and those career numbers look way better

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

I agree Rice was great but So was Calvin, thats my point one had a much better circumstance than the other to me. Was it injuries or did he like Sanders walk away because of his circumstance. If he was winning SB and had great teams good chance he keeps playing and those career numbers look way better

But then that goes back to the original topic, why did Rice never have a season equal to what Calvin did, to what Kupp did. Was Moss never talented enough? Was Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald never talented enough? It takes talent, but it also takes a perfect storm of circumstances.

And when some of those circumstances are repeated in both events, you can draw a line between them.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The knock on Dak isn't his season stats which look great beating up on the NFC Least. The knock is that he tends to be mediocre against good teams, and hasn't come through in the playoffs yet.

 

[atlantacowboy]

The haterade blinds some folks.

Nope, its the lack of success. He needs to back up his numbers with playoff success or he's Romo.

 

[Pass2Run]

Don't you guys ever get tired of these threads?

Like the same one every day, different form?

 

[America's Cowboy]

Nope, its the lack of success. He needs to back up his numbers with playoff success or he's Romo.

True. A lot depends on the team as a whole.

 

[CowboyFrog]

But then that goes back to the original topic, why did Rice never have a season equal to what Calvin did, to what Kupp did. Was Moss never talented enough? Was Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald never talented enough? It takes talent, but it also takes a perfect storm of circumstances.

And when some of those circumstances are repeated in both events, you can draw a line between them.

But then you arguing that Stafford is better than Young or Montana...right so would that not show Megatron did a better season with less? again semantics but some here show Stafford love they would not show other players who have the same situation....I still say any of those 10 QB's have the same chances to win a SB with that roster and same injury situation...that team was very good.

 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

But then you arguing that Stafford is better than Young or Montana...right so would that not show Megatron did a better season with less? again semantics but some here show Stafford love they would not show other players who have the same situation....I still say any of those 10 QB's have the same chances to win a SB with that roster and same injury situation...that team was very good.

No no, just that the specific act of force feeding a #1 WR better suits Stafford’s game than most other QBs. That doesn’t necessarily make him better or worse than another QB, but it does contribute to the ballooning success of those players.

Take Dak for example. He’s had 5 1000 yard receivers in his career, but 0 of them even got to 1200 yards. He spreads the ball around, and tends to use his #1 guy as a decoy to spread out the coverage for his tight ends, for his other WRs. Whereas Kirk Cousins is much more in line with focusing in on the first read, shown by Justin Jefferson getting 3000 yards in just his first 2 years. Dak is better than Cousins and this doesn’t change that, it’s just 2 different styles of QB/offensive play.

This QBs you mentioned still win the SB with the 2021 Rams, but Cooper is less likely to hit that yardage mark while doing it.

 

[Ranched]