For the sign Zeke at all costs crowd

Blackspider214

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,667
Reaction score
15,497
For the record (again) I think Zeke is a great player. His maturity level and this holdout though have turned me into a seller of Zeke. That said I wish there was no cap and they could sign him. Unfortunately there is a cap and the 2020 off season is going to be loaded with others that need to be signed. RBs do not equal championships!

After watching Pollard last night has your opinion of the Zeke situation changed at all?

Also please don’t beat up on Morris. The Cowboys OL backups suck. They really, really suck.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Pollard has never once been a bell cow RB. Ever. This offense only goes with a top tier bell cow RB. Go look at the difference in 2014 and 2015 with Murray and then we went McFadden/Randle. It was junk. Go look at this offense in 2017 without Zeke. It was junk. This is not an indictment on Dak or the QBs we had in 2015. They are put in a scenario where they can not succeed without the bell cow RB because that is how the offense is designed. As Stephen said, Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink. Pollard is a change of pace back and that is it.
 

Vinnie2u

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,769
Reaction score
11,176
Will McClay #1 priority is to find another RB. We got Pollard and that’s it. The rest of the guys are trash. I don’t really care what happens with Zeke but the team needs to prepare for life without him.
 

TwoDeep3

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,390
Reaction score
17,213
How so, we were slightly below average last year. I like your optimism and it’s a serious question, I think we will definitely be better but best in the game?!

Having Fred back and Cobb won’t change it that much. I guess you could argue Moore will be our savior, he certainly has to be an upgrade from Linehan but I doubt enough to make that much of a difference.


Let's dissect your comments.

The slightly below average last year comment is based on what? The first half where the team had no passing game? Or the second half where the team seem to gel and play better? Or a mixture of both.

I have said this to you, and anyone who will, listen here, that history does not dictate future results necessarily. So your foundation on diminishing any type of quantum leap has the requisite that last year was at one level and that is impossible to move up to the top level because the additions are not significant enough.. Now I can just be a rah rah guy and discount this. Essentially stating I know You are but what am I.

But this is the deal.

Fredbeard will make a difference in both his ability to play his position and his ability to call the line play. Now marry that with a beefed up Connor Williams and the depth the team has on the line and that group did make a significant step forward. It trickles down in pass protection and opening holes.

Factor in that the WR corp is much better now than the last moment of last season. Gallup will be the most improved player on the offense this year. He will have a marked effect on the edges, and he brings something to between the hash marks in a deeper pattern that the team has not enjoyed recently. All made possible by the line.

A full season of Cooper and the inclusion of Cobb, which I believe was a major step forward to Beas, including some hungry new guys, and this, again, is more tha a modest improvement.

Then factor in opening holes, because the cohesiveness of line play is superior than the last two years, and the passing game should be remarkably better. The run game, and especially play action of a tandem backfield of Zeke and Pollard, could be a nightmare for defenses. Then add Jarwin coming of age and Witten - and I believe he still has some mojo - and that aspect of the offense will thrive.

And whatever shortcomings the defense might have, the offense and time of possession could be killer for the other team.

The individual components are there for this to be a highly successful offense. Moore is an unknown for me. If he is a wunderkind and has an imagination and understanding how to both disguise and be consistently inconsistent with the point of attack, this could very well be the best offense in the league.

And that is me including the bus driver under center.

I don't know. No one does. But I see a whole hosy of parts, that once assembled, have a potential to be surprising.
 

CouchCoach

Staff member
Messages
41,122
Reaction score
74,904
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I am not buying Pollard can be a good replacement in pretend games; however, I am not sold that this team has to have Elliott to be successful.

We do not know yet what kind of game Kellen the Young is going to call or if the passing game has improved enough to not be so dependent on one particular RB.

In CC's fantasy world, some team would offer a 1st for Elliott, they would let the QB play through this contract and evaluate whether to use that 1st on a QB and tag Prescott and sign B. Jones, J. Smith and several others like maybe the Collins' and A. Woods. I am not in favor of paying more players in the top 5 or 6 at their position and they already have 4 in that position at DE, LT, C and RG.
 

CATCH17

1st Round Pick
Messages
67,054
Reaction score
84,637
Pollard has never once been a bell cow RB. Ever. This offense only goes with a top tier bell cow RB. Go look at the difference in 2014 and 2015 with Murray and then we went McFadden/Randle. It was junk. Go look at this offense in 2017 without Zeke. It was junk. This is not an indictment on Dak or the QBs we had in 2015. They are put in a scenario where they can not succeed without the bell cow RB because that is how the offense is designed. As Stephen said, Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink. Pollard is a change of pace back and that is it.

Romo was hurt in 2015.

I believe we still had a top 5 rushing team.

Pollard wasn’t the bell cow for his team because Henderson had been one of the most productive RBs in college. Nobody knows if Pollard can be a bell cow but he has already shown that he is physical enough to move away from the Lance Dunbar label.
 

Jake

Beyond tired of Jerry
Messages
36,067
Reaction score
84,350
Pollard has never once been a bell cow RB. Ever. This offense only goes with a top tier bell cow RB. Go look at the difference in 2014 and 2015 with Murray and then we went McFadden/Randle. It was junk. Go look at this offense in 2017 without Zeke. It was junk. This is not an indictment on Dak or the QBs we had in 2015. They are put in a scenario where they can not succeed without the bell cow RB because that is how the offense is designed. As Stephen said, Zeke is the straw that stirs the drink. Pollard is a change of pace back and that is it.

To set aside the suckage of Cassel/Weeden, and overlook the negative impact of Chaz Green in 2017, seems disingenuous. There were more issues than just RB.

I agree with your concerns about Pollard. He's never been asked to carry the load so for anyone to just assume he can do it is wishful thinking at this point.
 

starfan1

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,402
Reaction score
11,568
Not in the least has it changed.

If Pollard can translate this ability to the real games, that is exciting.

But with Zeke, that has a potential, with the starting OL, to make this the best offense in the game.

This is not a zero sum game.

My memory from the ranch and you is a bit hazy but are you an OSU guy?

It’s probably an unfair question because I agree with a lot of the whole zeke is the straw business and I don’t think you can replace what zeke does but you can replace 80% of it without the headache and uncertainty of his behavior

My thoughts are that none of the 3 are worth overpaying to keep you from keeping this team intact . I didn’t want to overpay tank but they did

I truly believe the big uglies up from are the real engine

We are better with zeke than without but if someone cane calling with a decent deal I wouldn’t be opposed to it

For any of the big 3
 

TheSkaven

Last Man Standing
Messages
7,021
Reaction score
5,775
But the RB position isn’t always about talent and more to do with volume.

We don’t need the most talented RB in the league to get great production. We’ve already proven that with our 3rd round RB in Demarco Murray.

Pollard had 45 yards on 5 carries. Just give these guys the rock and they’ll produce.

Other teams figured this out a long time ago.

Amen. Close the thread. This sums it up.
 

TwoDeep3

Well-Known Member
Messages
14,390
Reaction score
17,213
My memory from the ranch and you is a bit hazy but are you an OSU guy?

It’s probably an unfair question because I agree with a lot of the whole zeke is the straw business and I don’t think you can replace what zeke does but you can replace 80% of it without the headache and uncertainty of his behavior

My thoughts are that none of the 3 are worth overpaying to keep you from keeping this team intact . I didn’t want to overpay tank but they did

I truly believe the big uglies up from are the real engine

We are better with zeke than without but if someone cane calling with a decent deal I wouldn’t be opposed to it

For any of the big 3

No, I guess if I were going to have a college allegiance it would be Texas.
 

aria

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,543
Reaction score
16,793
Let's dissect your comments.

The slightly below average last year comment is based on what? The first half where the team had no passing game? Or the second half where the team seem to gel and play better? Or a mixture of both.

I have said this to you, and anyone who will, listen here, that history does not dictate future results necessarily. So your foundation on diminishing any type of quantum leap has the requisite that last year was at one level and that is impossible to move up to the top level because the additions are not significant enough.. Now I can just be a rah rah guy and discount this. Essentially stating I know You are but what am I.

But this is the deal.

Fredbeard will make a difference in both his ability to play his position and his ability to call the line play. Now marry that with a beefed up Connor Williams and the depth the team has on the line and that group did make a significant step forward. It trickles down in pass protection and opening holes.

Factor in that the WR corp is much better now than the last moment of last season. Gallup will be the most improved player on the offense this year. He will have a marked effect on the edges, and he brings something to between the hash marks in a deeper pattern that the team has not enjoyed recently. All made possible by the line.

A full season of Cooper and the inclusion of Cobb, which I believe was a major step forward to Beas, including some hungry new guys, and this, again, is more tha a modest improvement.

Then factor in opening holes, because the cohesiveness of line play is superior than the last two years, and the passing game should be remarkably better. The run game, and especially play action of a tandem backfield of Zeke and Pollard, could be a nightmare for defenses. Then add Jarwin coming of age and Witten - and I believe he still has some mojo - and that aspect of the offense will thrive.

And whatever shortcomings the defense might have, the offense and time of possession could be killer for the other team.

The individual components are there for this to be a highly successful offense. Moore is an unknown for me. If he is a wunderkind and has an imagination and understanding how to both disguise and be consistently inconsistent with the point of attack, this could very well be the best offense in the league.

And that is me including the bus driver under center.

I don't know. No one does. But I see a whole hosy of parts, that once assembled, have a potential to be surprising.
I think top 10 is a very good chance but best overall I think best overall chances are about 0%. There’s 32 other teams that are also trying to make improvements.

The Giants had the highest scoring offense in the NFCE last year. Granted, they don’t have OBJ but I believe they scored more points without him last year. Golden Tate will be suspended for 4 games but they were also missing Engram and Shepherd at times. Their O line should be better. Point being, they could arguably be better than last year as well. Then you have teams like the Eagles, Pats, Browns, Colts, Rams, Saints, etc. I see us being better than some of them but certainly not all of them (even though I do think we’ll have a top 3-5 O line at worst).
 

TheSkaven

Last Man Standing
Messages
7,021
Reaction score
5,775
For those blaming that Dak sack only on Pollard, look at the play again. Fast forward to 1 min. on this video:



This is a La’el Collins bust, though Pollard also should have picked it up.
 

bsbellomy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
3,145
It's not just about yardage. How many times does Elliot put the ball in the ground even though we get them back. He couldn't take it to the house last season overweight slow. Slipped over his own ego on the goal line. Nope he's not even close to being the best until he cleans up this knucklehead attitude

Jesus why not just cut the guy?
 

bsbellomy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,367
Reaction score
3,145
Funny. I understand it was the Rams second stringers but Pollard pretty much did everything we would want him to do, and some, under the circumstances. I don’t recall people diminishing Zeke’s games against some of the worst rushing defenses in the league nor do I recall people talking trash about Zeke when he had bad games...it was always the O lines fault.

Also remember that we didn’t have all our offensive starters either.

Let's see what he does in real NFL games when teams have ZERO respect for your QB and stack 9 in the box every play.
 

aria

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,543
Reaction score
16,793
Let's see what he does in real NFL games when teams have ZERO respect for your QB and stack 9 in the box every play.
Exactly, that’s what I want to see as well. With our O line I think he’ll be fine.
 

glimmerman

Well-Known Member
Messages
30,041
Reaction score
29,902
For the record (again) I think Zeke is a great player. His maturity level and this holdout though have turned me into a seller of Zeke. That said I wish there was no cap and they could sign him. Unfortunately there is a cap and the 2020 off season is going to be loaded with others that need to be signed. RBs do not equal championships!

After watching Pollard last night has your opinion of the Zeke situation changed at all?

Also please don’t beat up on Morris. The Cowboys OL backups suck. They really, really suck.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.
Pollard has had 139 attempts for his whole college career. I don’t know if that means he is fresh and ready to go or if that means he can’t handle 300 attempts per year.
 

Rockport

AmberBeer
Messages
41,372
Reaction score
41,339
For the record (again) I think Zeke is a great player. His maturity level and this holdout though have turned me into a seller of Zeke. That said I wish there was no cap and they could sign him. Unfortunately there is a cap and the 2020 off season is going to be loaded with others that need to be signed. RBs do not equal championships!

After watching Pollard last night has your opinion of the Zeke situation changed at all?

Also please don’t beat up on Morris. The Cowboys OL backups suck. They really, really suck.

Thanks in advance for your opinions.
Not sure anyone wants to sign Zeke at all costs. I have wanted him signed and still do to a contract that’s good for both sides.
 

Whyjerry

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,152
Reaction score
25,014
Not sure anyone wants to sign Zeke at all costs. I have wanted him signed and still do to a contract that’s good for both sides.

He does have a contact good for both sides. Has 2 years left on It too.
 
Top