For those who don't think Drew makes the HOF

[Doomsday101]

I thought we discussed this about 6 weeks ago.

Does Coach Jimmy Johnson belong in the HOF ?

Did Bill Walsh deserve it?

 

[Hostile]

How many qb's from bad teams make the HOF? That's what's stupid IMO. If Bledsoe can't make the HOF, then why isn't Roger Craig in the HOF over O. J. Simpson, or Earl Campbell. They never even made it to a superbowl.

I'll tell you why, Campbell and O. J. put up great numbers.

Heck by the time Walter Payton won a superbowl, he was just an average back. Most of his numbers were put up on losing teams.

Why can't a QB go into the HOF by putting up great statistics like a running back can.

They have to be judged by whether their team is good enough to compete for championships.

And I believe a huge reason why Bledsoe has played for 3 teams is because the NFL is now in the salary cap era.

OJ Simpson and Earl Campbell had bigger imapcts on the game than Roger Craig.

Look at Gale Sayers' stats. Perfect example. Terrell Davis has similar stats. Sayers was a no doubt about it HOFer. Terrell isn't.

It is about impact on the game.

 

[Hostile]

I thought we discussed this about 6 weeks ago.

Does Coach Jimmy Johnson belong in the HOF ?

We did. It was resurrected by bad research.

No, Jimmy doesn't belong in.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Did Bill Walsh deserve it?

This cant be a serious answer.

 

[Danny White]

True enough, my bad. Benched is more appropriate. Benched twice in favor of younger, more unproven QBs.

Hos, he ruptured his spleen and had a tube coming out of his chest for several weeks... I wouldn't call that being "benched." By the time he healed, Brady had led the Pats to the playoffs... I wouldn't call that "unproven."

Circumstances and finances led to Bledsoe being moved from New England... not performance. Bledsoe played a huge role in that team transforming from a perennial joke to a perennial contender. Together with Parcells, they took the team from a 1-15 laughingstock to a team that came a couple plays from winning the Super Bowl.

As for Buffalo, sure he was waived for an unproven player... I think history may look back on that as a very foolish move... thankfully it's a foolish move that benefits us.

 

[Doomsday101]

This cant be a serious answer.

I think Johnson brought as much to Dallas as Walsh did for San Fran. Both turned around franchises that had hit hard times and helped turn them into multiple Super Bowl winners. What more do you want?

 

[SkinsandTerps]

Who said Payton was "just an average RB" when he won a SB.

The guy had one of the best years of his career the year the Bears won the SB. Over 2000 total yards. Even by todays standards thats impressive.

 

[cobra]

Looking at the list of guys in the Hall of Fame and comparing them to Bledsoe is hard, but not impossible.

Take Jim Kelly and Dan Fouts, who are both in the Hall of Fame.

Dan Fouts never went to the Super Bowl, and he was never the best in the game at the time, though he did win the MVP one season... somehow. I think he is extremely similar to Bledsoe.

Drew Bledsoe 41000 231 184
Dan Fouts 43040 254 242

I suspect that at the end of his career, Bledsoe will have much better numbers than Fouts. He will (hopefully) have a Super Bowl ring, which Fouts didn't, but even if he doesn't, then I suggest there is precedence to put him in there since Fouts is in.

Jim Kelly has the four straight Super Bowl appearances, but they were all losses. At the time, the AFC was extremely weak, and Buffalo had a solid team in a weak conference, so I don't how much the SB appearances mean. But, he does have that going for him, and Bledsoe does not. But Kelly doesn't have a ring. And when you look at the numbers, Bledsoe stands out ahead of him:

Drew Bledsoe 41000 231 184
Jim Kelly 35467 237 175

At the end of his career, Bledsoe's numbers will be far ahead of Kelly's---at least 10,000-15,000 more yards. The only thing that Kelly will have on Bledsoe is SB appearances, and I'm not sure how much I weigh those in his favor vs. the advantage in Bledsoe's numbers.

So, while I wouldn't put Bledsoe in my top ten qb's of all time, by the standards of who is presently in the HoF, I think you can legitimately argue he deserves in.

If he puts up 50k, he has to be in. If he wins 1 Super Bowl and ends with 45k, he has to be in. So, he either needs 3 good years or one SB year, and he should be in.

 

[Danny White]

If he puts up 50k, he has to be in. If he wins 1 Super Bowl and ends with 45k, he has to be in. So, he either needs 3 good years or one SB year, and he should be in.

That seems to be the consensus.

Good post.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He gets to 50,000 yards and wins a Super Bowl as a Cowboy.

He will be revered right up there with Staubach and Aikman - in Cowboy Lore....thats how that works

Speak for yourself Nors. Bledsoe, in my opinion, will never be right up there with Staubach or Aikman.

And that is how that works my friend.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Looking at the list of guys in the Hall of Fame and comparing them to Bledsoe is hard, but not impossible.

Take Jim Kelly and Dan Fouts, who are both in the Hall of Fame.

Dan Fouts never went to the Super Bowl, and he was never the best in the game at the time, though he did win the MVP one season... somehow. I think he is extremely similar to Bledsoe.

Drew Bledsoe 41000 231 184
Dan Fouts 43040 254 242

I suspect that at the end of his career, Bledsoe will have much better numbers than Fouts. He will (hopefully) have a Super Bowl ring, which Fouts didn't, but even if he doesn't, then I suggest there is precedence to put him in there since Fouts is in.

Jim Kelly has the four straight Super Bowl appearances, but they were all losses. At the time, the AFC was extremely weak, and Buffalo had a solid team in a weak conference, so I don't how much the SB appearances mean. But, he does have that going for him, and Bledsoe does not. But Kelly doesn't have a ring. And when you look at the numbers, Bledsoe stands out ahead of him:

Drew Bledsoe 41000 231 184
Jim Kelly 35467 237 175

At the end of his career, Bledsoe's numbers will be far ahead of Kelly's---at least 10,000-15,000 more yards. The only thing that Kelly will have on Bledsoe is SB appearances, and I'm not sure how much I weigh those in his favor vs. the advantage in Bledsoe's numbers.

So, while I wouldn't put Bledsoe in my top ten qb's of all time, by the standards of who is presently in the HoF, I think you can legitimately argue he deserves in.

If he puts up 50k, he has to be in. If he wins 1 Super Bowl and ends with 45k, he has to be in. So, he either needs 3 good years or one SB year, and he should be in.

I believe that Dan Fouts ended his career as the all time passing leader in NFL history. That is what got him in. Same deal with Tarkentan. Same deal with Marino.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

By that logic Ted Williams would be out - never won a World Series.

There are no Elway, Bledsoe comparisons. Elway is one of the greats ever.


Bledsoe wins a Super Bowl and hits 50,000 yards - he DESERVES in. PERIOD

This, I absolutly agree with.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

I believe that Dan Fouts ended his career as the all time passing leader in NFL history. That is what got him in. Same deal with Tarkentan. Same deal with Marino.

Fouts was #2 behind Tarkenton.
I cant believe I am getting back into this one.

 

[Hostile]

Hos, he ruptured his spleen and had a tube coming out of his chest for several weeks... I wouldn't call that being "benched." By the time he healed, Brady had led the Pats to the playoffs... I wouldn't call that "unproven."

Circumstances and finances led to Bledsoe being moved from New England... not performance. Bledsoe played a huge role in that team transforming from a perennial joke to a perennial contender. Together with Parcells, they took the team from a 1-15 laughingstock to a team that came a couple plays from winning the Super Bowl.

As for Buffalo, sure he was waived for an unproven player... I think history may look back on that as a very foolish move... thankfully it's a foolish move that benefits us.

DW, I'm not downplaying his toughness or sugar coating what he's been through.

For all his impressive stats he has some negative baggage along with it. That's just the truth. He has been unimpressive against winning teams for the majority of his career. If people think that won't come up as a big red negative they're simply denying the truth.

The unwritten rule of the NFL is you don't lose your job to injury. He did, to an unproven 6th roung Draft pick who is now nearing legendary status, but it will still be a negative.

Yeah, I'm glad he's here. No one should think otherwise. This isn't about negativity that he's our QB. The topic of the thread was way the hell off base because he brought up no less than 4 or 5 QBs not in the Hall of Fame comparing Bledsoe to them.

Comparisons by stats alone are flawed. That is why I brought up Krieg, DeBerg, and Testaverde.

Guarantees that a Super Bowl get him in don't fly either as I showed with regard to Plunkett who has 2 of them.

People want to throw a lot of IFs into the equation. I threw one in too since that is the game. Suppose he is injured tomorrow and never plays again. Just as valid an IF. Or are the only IFs allowed are the ones that are Pro, then why debate at all? The pendelum swings both ways.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Manning played alot of 14 game seasons, played before alot of rule changes that helped qb's and the offense in general went into effect

He also played his entire career on one of the worst teams in NFL history. The aints were horrible. If anybody can remember Archie, you will remember a guy who had great skills but horrible teams. Manning never got an opportunity to play on a good team. His statistics are completely skewed in comparision to his actual talent for that reason.

 

[joseephuss]

If Bledsoe get over 50,000 yards, he is in. It's just that simple. If he leads Dallas to the playoffs for two or three years, and never reaches the SuperBowl, he is probably in.

Look at Bettis. For a RB, Bettis is the most comparable case. Let's no forget Bettis was on the trash pile after the Rams thought he was through. He resurfaces in Pittsburgh, and is now the Fifth leading rusher in NFL history, and most people think he is a shoe-in for the HOF. He never won a SuperBowl. He didn't impact the game the way Smith, Payton, or Sanders did. But, you cannot keep him out with those stats. Same goes for Bledsoe.

Dan Fouts is most comparable to Bledsoe as far as QB's go. Bledsoe has eclipsed Fouts stats, and Fouts never even got to the SuperBowl. Fouts also had some of the greatest receiving combos in NFL history around him his entire career in Winslow, Jefferson, Chandler, Joiner, Muncie out of the backfield. Bledsoe's career has already eclipsed Fouts career in all aspects, in much tougher conditions, both weather-wise, and personnel wise.

Now, if Bledsoe continues to play like he has so far this season, I think he will settle this arguement pretty quickly. Let's not forget, he will be playing most of his games in good weather conditions the rest of his career. Buffalo is a very hard place to play QB from November on and many of his road games were cold weather as well with both Buffalo and NE. As as Cowboy, at least eight of his games a season will be in Dallas were it can get cold, but there is no wind like NE and Buffalo especially. He may get a tough passing game at NY or Philly which means maybe two tough passing days all year on average. Taking this into account, it should help him to produce even more passing numbers per year than he has in past season. No bad weather to slow him down.

As it stands now, I give him a 75% chance at the Hall. If he loses his arm tomorrow, the vote would be close. If he continues playing and plays at the level he is capable, he will be in.

I could keep Bettis out of the Hall of Fame. At least not first ballot. All the points that you make about him not being a part of a championship team nor having a big impact. That is my opinion on Bettis, but you are right in that he will make the Hall. I am glad he played this year because it would have been insulting for him to go in at the same time as Emmitt, when Emmitt is much greater than him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Fouts was #2 behind Tarkenton.
I cant believe I am getting back into this one.

You know what, your right. I stand corrected. Good call S&T.

 

[Hostile]

I could keep Bettis out of the Hall of Fame. At least not first ballot. All the points that you make about him not being a part of a championship team nor having a big impact. That is my opinion on Bettis, but you are right in that he will make the Hall. I am glad he played this year because it would have been insulting for him to go in at the same time as Emmitt, when Emmitt is much greater than him.

I agree on 1st ballot for him and Eddie George both.

Great numbers. If they get in that is their calling card.

Not really great impact guys.

 

[Rack]

I don't think George belongs in the HoF. He had more average or below average seasons then he had great seaons, and he was never as feared as the "Great" ones like Emmitt, Barry, or OJ.

Bettis is closer to being a HoF then George, but it's close. He's not a shoe-in, IMO. Or at least he shouldn't be.

 

[Kilyin]

I agree on 1st ballot for him and Eddie George both.

Great numbers. If they get in that is their calling card.

Not really great impact guys.

There's no way Eddie George should ever sniff the HOF. Even if you don't count his year in Dallas, you're looking at a pedestrian career at best.