Franchise QB's?

[burmafrd]

22.6 rating for Roths- worst passing rating for a winning QB ever.
Hasselback was not much better. Good thing Roths is mobile- outside of Parkers run he ran better then any of the RB's.
And it was not because the D was that good on either side.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

22.6 rating for Roths- worst passing rating for a winning QB ever.
Hasselback was not much better. Good thing Roths is mobile- outside of Parkers run he ran better then any of the RB's.
And it was not because the D was that good on either side.

I think your being a bit hard on a 2nd year player. Lets us try to remember that this 2nd year QB also posted a 95.3 QBRT over the heavly favored Colts on the road in the upset.

Lets also remembr for just a second that he posted a QBRT of 124.9, on the road, against Denver.

I would throw in the fact that this same Seattle defense held our own Golden Boy, Drew Bledsoe, to a QBRT of just 50.0. This, from a guy who's played 13 seasons in the NFL.

Lastly, lets not lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, the Franchise QB became the youngest QB to ever win a Super Bowl.

 

[burmafrd]

But he was under a lot less pressure then Bledsoe was- his line gave him pretty good protection.

 

[PacoReloaded]

22.6 rating for Roths- worst passing rating for a winning QB ever.
Hasselback was not much better. Good thing Roths is mobile- outside of Parkers run he ran better then any of the RB's.
And it was not because the D was that good on either side.

But yet Roth made plays when he HAD to and got the job done.

Enough said.

 

[superpunk]

But yet Roth made plays when he HAD to and got the job done.

Enough said.

Was that the 30-some yard duck/prayer that should have been intercepted?

Or was that him streaking down the field for a 75 yard run?

Oh...I know - that last TD pass to Ward! That was the play he made when he had to.....Oh - wait....that was Randle-El....

He made 1 play all game long. And I thought there was no way that pass was getting completed. Hines just wanted it more.

 

[royhitshard]

But yet Roth made plays when he HAD to and got the job done.

Enough said.

Exactly, and that is all that matters.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But he was under a lot less pressure then Bledsoe was- his line gave him pretty good protection.

If Super Bowls are the ultimate yard stick, I'd have to say that Roth has proven the point. In his rookie year, he lost in the conference championship game to the eventual champs. In his 2nd year, he has won the Super Bowl. I guess I don't see how this disproves the Franchise QB theory.

 

[CalCBFan]

I like Ben as much as anybody. I posted on the old Austin site that I thought Jerry should try and move up to get him. But he came away with a "win" because the league has too much to say about the outcome of these games. My opinion is that 1) Cower, the longest tenured active coach, was getting the reputation for "not winning the '"big one'", and the NFL wanted to do something about it. 2) I agree w/ the comments about wanting the BUs to get a ring. But I think the biggest reason for the poor officiating was 3) the NFL just couldn't let the SB go to one of the smallest markets in the league, in the far NW corner of the US for pete's sake. Am I the only one who thought it strange that Cowher seemed to think he would win, yet had no apparent plan (Madden and Michaels pointed this out after the half-time blurb). He could have at least talked about making adjustments. I'm a believer that in this NFL, $$$$ comes first and foremost, and in the same way that Jerry keeps talking about it being ridiculous for the 2nd largest market in the US (LA) to not have a NFL team, and the way the league tried everything to give them a team, manipulation of game results at any level is considered "good business"...

 

[Doomsday101]

I like Ben as much as anybody. I posted on the old Austin site that I thought Jerry should try and move up to get him. But he came away with a "win" because the league has too much to say about the outcome of these games. My opinion is that 1) Cower, the longest tenured active coach, was getting the reputation for "not winning the '"big one'", and the NFL wanted to do something about it. 2) I agree w/ the comments about wanting the BUs to get a ring. But I think the biggest reason for the poor officiating was 3) the NFL just couldn't let the SB go to one of the smallest markets in the league, in the far NW corner of the US for pete's sake. Am I the only one who thought it strange that Cowher seemed to think he would win, yet had no apparent plan (Madden and Michaels pointed this out after the half-time blurb). He could have at least talked about making adjustments. I'm a believer that in this NFL, $$$$ comes first and foremost, and in the same way that Jerry keeps talking about it being ridiculous for the 2nd largest market in the US (LA) to not have a NFL team, and the way the league tried everything to give them a team, manipulation of game results at any level is considered "good business"...

If I thought that was the case I would never watch another NFL game. I don't think the game was fixed I think Seattle failed to make plays when they needed to.

 

[gbrittain]

If I thought that was the case I would never watch another NFL game. I don't think the game was fixed I think Seattle failed to make plays when they needed to.

Dooms, again I am with you.

This whole NFL being fixed, agendas and conspiracies stuff has to stop. It is rediculous.

If the NFL had an agenda Bill Parcells and Bill Belichek would have been playing in the Superbowl yesterday.

Imagine the Hype on that story. Bill vs Bill: The Showdown.

I have no problem with people believing that crap, just dont spew it on this forum.

It undermines every accomplishment Dallas has achieved throughout their existence and casts a negative vibe on any future Superbowl wins the Cowboys have coming their way.

Go to the WWE forum and talk that junk. This is not the place for that.

 

[baj1dallas]

But yet Roth made plays when he HAD to and got the job done.

Enough said.

Does it necessarily take a "franchise" QB to do that?

 

[Doomsday101]

Dooms, again I am with you.

This whole NFL being fixed, agendas and conspiracies stuff has to stop. It is rediculous.

If the NFL had an agenda Bill Parcells and Bill Belichek would have been playing in the Superbowl yesterday.

Imagine the Hype on that story. Bill vs Bill: The Showdown.

I have no problem with people believing that crap, just dont spew it on this forum.

It undermines every accomplishment Dallas has achieved throughout their existence and casts a negative vibe on any future Superbowl wins the Cowboys have coming their way.

Go to the WWE forum and talk that junk. This is not the place for that.

I agree and think it is a cop out. You don't like the result you can say the game was fixed. I don't denie there were some questionable calls but I don't think for 1 sec the refs really care who wins or loses these games. They do the best they can.

 

[Hostile]

22.6 rating for Roths- worst passing rating for a winning QB ever.
Hasselback was not much better. Good thing Roths is mobile- outside of Parkers run he ran better then any of the RB's.
And it was not because the D was that good on either side.

A franchise QB is about competing for the whole 9 yards year after year, not 1 game.

 

[gbrittain]

A franchise QB is about competing for the whole 9 yards year after year, not 1 game.

Yeah, that is about the lamest attempt I have seen in support of Bledsoe.

Sure, if Bledsoe had been air dropped into the dome last night(dont think that can be done!) and played in place of Ben R then I would agree DB could have won a Superbowl.

Unfortunately there is this thing called 16 game Regular season, Playoffs then and only then Superbowl.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Does it necessarily take a "franchise" QB to do that?

Who are the have's and the have nots?

I would say that the following are the have's:

New England - Brady
Cincinnati - Palmer
Pittsburgh - Roeth
Indy - Manning
Jags - Lefty
Houston - Carr
Denver - Snake
Kansas City - Green
San Diego - Brees
Gints - Manning
Philly - McNappie
Chicago - Grossman
Vikes - Culpepper
Green Bay - Favre
Buff''s - JPL
Bucs - Simms
Carolina - Delhomme
Atlanta - Vick


Have Nots

Miami
Jets
Baltimore
Cleveland
Tenn
Oak
Skinz
Pokes
Lions
NO

Of the 18 total teams listed as Haves, only Houston (don't know if Carr is really there franchise), KC (Close but no sigar), San Diego (Ditto), Vikes (Injured), GB (Favre retired), Buff's (JP too young yet) and Atlanta (in it for most of the year) did not make the playoffs. That's 11 of 18.

Of the have nots, 10 teams total, only 1 made the playoffs. That was the skinz who arguably have a franchise calibure QB if a bit past his prime. Regardless, I did not list him as such because I don't view him as a franchise talent any longer.

To me, that kinda says it all.

 

[DipChit]

A franchise QB is about competing for the whole 9 yards year after year, not 1 game.

But what if the franchise the franchise QB plays for is a crappy franchise? Does that mean the franchise QB isnt *really* a franchise QB if he cant lift his franchise to greatness?

Or can a QB be recognized as a franchise QB even on a crappy franchise that never wins anything? I think it can happen.. but theres only ever been about a handful of those guys in history.

Harrington for example was drafted to be a franchise QB. And even after a couple years he was still their franchise QB even though they hadnt won anything.. cant really blame a 2nd year QB for that. But I guess after a few years now we can officially take that tag away from him because the Lions still suck and it's probably all his fault.

 

[CowboysFan28]

Roeth throws the worst ball this side of Eli Manning...And he wears a glove...he looked terrible.

 

[jterrell]

I think your being a bit hard on a 2nd year player. Lets us try to remember that this 2nd year QB also posted a 95.3 QBRT over the heavly favored Colts on the road in the upset.

Lets also remembr for just a second that he posted a QBRT of 124.9, on the road, against Denver.

I would throw in the fact that this same Seattle defense held our own Golden Boy, Drew Bledsoe, to a QBRT of just 50.0. This, from a guy who's played 13 seasons in the NFL.

Lastly, lets not lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, the Franchise QB became the youngest QB to ever win a Super Bowl.

No need to even bring Bledsoe up here because both QBs were horribly bad no comparisons needed. Lest you leave yourself open to comparing Marvel Smith and Torrin Tucker.

Ben R has been effective as heck for a young guy but put him under constant pressure and would fold like most others.

His size and agility set him apart from most but his passing skill is quite unremarkable.

 

[jterrell]

A franchise QB is about competing for the whole 9 yards year after year, not 1 game.

Who does that???
Tom Brady and then....

McNabb is close. Vick? hmm not really close.
Manning? nope. Playoff skidmarks.
Delhomme? Nope. Missed playoffs altogether in between playoff runs.
Culpepper? Nope.
Brett Favre? Nope.



No team is consistently winning(except NE) and NO QB is either in this parity era.

If you go back to the era where there were dynasties this might have held true but right now you have to try to build a team not just get a QB because having the best QB doesnt mean much as we saw this year and when Dilfer won and when Brady won the first time and when Brad Johnson won et al.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No need to even bring Bledsoe up here because both QBs were horribly bad no comparisons needed. Lest you leave yourself open to comparing Marvel Smith and Torrin Tucker.

Ben R has been effective as heck for a young guy but put him under constant pressure and would fold like most others.

His size and agility set him apart from most but his passing skill is quite unremarkable.

I think that Roeth is going to improve by leaps and bounds over the next two years. I watched him play while at Miami of Ohio and I am convinced he can throw the football. It is a maturation process. The Steelers are lucky in that they've managed to get him a great deal of invaluable experience while still staying competative and actually winning a championship. In another year or two, they are going to be able to rely on him as a meal ticket player. I just think that it's a bit much to evaluate him so harshly in what was his second year of football. Most guys aren't even off the bench at this stage. The Steelers are very fortunate indeed IMO.