Free agent QB situations should be leverage for contract negotiations

[joseephuss]

But ton I mean i'm pretty sure Dak fumbles the ball more then any QB in the NFL. I'm not sure if that was the case this year but in 2018 i'm pretty sure it was.


Yuck

You earlier said you don't base your opinion on any one thing. Now you are using one season to define Dak's fumbling "problems". He led the league in fumbles in 2018. No doubt, it was a problem that season. The other 3 seasons have not been an issue. Jameis Winston fumbles the ball more often. Deshaun Watson fumbles the ball more often. All 3 are relatively young. Guys in their first few seasons tend to fumble more then as they gain experience they learn how to get rid of the ball.

 

[Verdict]

i can understand a guy like Dak wanting you get paid. I can understand a guy like Dak wanting a contract and security. I can even understand him wanting a medium length contract so he can get paid again.

What I don’t “get” is someone like Dak wanting so much money that a good team can’t be fielded around him. If he would take top 10 QB money it would help field a team around him, and winning means enforcements.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But the gamble was in paying it to someone with no track record as opposed to someone that had proven he could be an effective passer in the NFL. It was really a pretty dramatic contract at the time for any QB, much less one that had only started 3 NFL games.

But, it did work out, so the gamble paid off.

As for structuring where they could get out of the contract, it really just comes down to the guaranteed money, and the cap hit.

Perhaps. I don't really see it that way thou. I mean, everybody knew that Belichick wanted to keep him as the eventual replacement for Brady. That, to me, says a lot about what he might be but I understand what you are saying. As far as the rest, yes it does come down to guaranteed money and cap hit. How is that working out for us with Dak, for us?

 

[OmerV]

Perhaps. I don't really see it that way thou. I mean, everybody knew that Belichick wanted to keep him as the eventual replacement for Brady. That, to me, says a lot about what he might be but I understand what you are saying. As far as the rest, yes it does come down to guaranteed money and cap hit. How is that working out for us with Dak, for us?

It's been great with Dak so far because he has only played under a 4th round rookie contract. As for how it will work in the future, that remains to be seen.

 

[McKDaddy]

Taysom Hill isn't a starting NFL QB. He is just a gadget guy.

Apparently the Saints feel differently from what i have read

 

[glimmerman]

His contract will be short term. 4-5 year because that’s what he wants. Figuring 34-36 million a year. Hoping his agent isn’t stuck on 40. I don’t want to sign him for that. But now that the SB is over they will be working to get mahomes signed. That may raise the standard market value.

 

[McKDaddy]

If Dak hit the market right now, he'd be the #1 free agent quarterback, easily.

But much like Garrett it would be eerily quiet in his agent's office. Everyone around the league knows his strengths & weaknesses and what they would need around him to be successful. Not one team would be lining up to give him the deal he apparently wants.
Sorry, that is just the truth.
Can you do worse than Dak? Absolutely. But a disastrous contract will set your team back at least half a decade.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Hill is going to be 30 this year, so he isn't the young QB to develop.

I saw Hill play at BYU. He wasn't a good passer. He completed less than 60% of this throws and threw almost as many interceptions as he did touchdowns. I didn't see anything about him coming out of college that indicated he would be an NFL starting caliber QB. I credit Payton for finding a roll for him, but that is about the extent we will ever see from him.

I would hope that he is probably close to being at the point where he could be a pretty decent backup. But the whole 30 thing, I don't really think it's that big of a deal. I mean, he was probably two years older then most others because he played at Brigham Young.

I watched him a lot at BYU. I saw him play live at least twice and I don't agree at all. I mean, you are correct, he threw for less then 60% but it was really only one year where he threw for a lower percentage and a lot of it was because of the Offense scheme and really the talent at WR IMO.

Fresh 59.2%
Soph 53.9%
Jr 66.7%
Sr. 59.8%

He didn't run a conventional offense at BYU, as you might expect. I guess I like him a lot more then you do.

I will add that Roger Staubach was a 27 year old Rookie when he came to the Dallas Cowboys.

 

[joseephuss]

I would hope that he is probably close to being at the point where he could be a pretty decent backup. But the whole 30 thing, I don't really think it's that big of a deal. I mean, he was probably two years older then most others because he played at Brigham Young.

I watched him a lot at BYU. I saw him play live at least twice and I don't agree at all. I mean, you are correct, he threw for less then 60% but it was really only one year where he threw for a lower percentage and a lot of it was because of the Offense scheme and really the talent at WR IMO.

Fresh 59.2%
Soph 53.9%
Jr 66.7%
Sr. 59.8%

He didn't run a conventional offense at BYU, as you might expect. I guess I like him a lot more then you do.

I will add that Roger Staubach was a 27 year old Rookie when he came to the Dallas Cowboys.

I had a feeling that someone would bring up Staubach with respect to the age of a new NFL QB.(It was kind of a softball pitch by me). It was Roger Freakin Staubach. He was one of the best players in college football. Hill was not.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I had a feeling that someone would bring up Staubach with respect to the age of a new NFL QB.(It was kind of a softball pitch by me). It was Roger Freakin Staubach. He was one of the best players in college football. Hill was not.

How could you not? He was basically the same age as Hill. So, you are suggesting that its impossible because it was Rodger?

 

[Reid1boys]

I am aware of all of this. What I asked was, is he under contract?

no, he is not under contract. But he can not sign with another team after we tag him.

 

[joseephuss]

How could you not? He was basically the same age as Hill. So, you are suggesting that its impossible because it was Rodger?

Not impossible, but improbable. Roger Staubach was one of a kind. He was special in college. Hill was average at best in college. If Hill was one of the top QBs while in college, then I would put less emphasis on his age.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

no, he is not under contract. But he can not sign with another team after we tag him.

That's true, but he doesn't have to play for us either. He can just sit and he can hurt us greatly by simply sitting out the beginning of the season and missing the entire off season and preseason. That would kill us if we allowed it. So the key is to pick a lane and stay in it IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Not impossible, but improbable. Roger Staubach was one of a kind. He was special in college. Hill was average at best in college. If Hill was one of the top QBs while in college, then I would put less emphasis on his age.

So then, you are against this because he didn't impress you in College. So what is your opinion of Sean Payten? Do you think he's a good coach or do you think he's over rated?

 

[Sevenup3000]

It's been great with Dak so far because he has only played under a 4th round rookie contract. As for how it will work in the future, that remains to be seen.

Not true at all. We know EXACTLY how Dak preforms when the QB position takes up a disportionate amount of the cap. Just because Dak started in 2016 and Romo retired in 2017, doesn't mean that Romo's cap hit wasn't still present from 2016 to 2019.

Dak is simply asking for HE to be given the cap space Dallas ALREADY allocates for the QB position.

 

[OmerV]

Not true at all. We know EXACTLY how Dak preforms when the QB position takes up a disportionate amount of the cap. Just because Dak started in 2016 and Romo retired in 2017, doesn't mean that Romo's cap hit wasn't still present from 2016 to 2019.

Dak is simply asking for HE to be given the cap space Dallas ALREADY allocates for the QB position.

Huh? You are saying that Dak starting while Romo was taking a big part of the cap space is identical to Dak starting with Dak taking up a big part of the cap space?

That doesn't make sense for several reasons. One, is that Romo wasn't hitting the cap in 2019 like you suggest. Two is that the argument the other guy was making is that the player who gets the big contract doesn't perform as well, and Romo getting the big contract does not apply to Dak in that argument. Mind you, I'm not saying that argument is valid, but that was part of the context of the discussion. Three is that the salary cap is different than when Romo signed, and QB salaries are very inflated from when Romo signed.

But none of that was the point of my comment anyway. The point I was making was about how the Cowboys work the salary cap after paying Dak, which is less about Dak's performance than it is about the team's ability to use the rest of the money not going to Dak on building a team. That clearly does remain to be seen.

 

[Reid1boys]

That's true, but he doesn't have to play for us either. He can just sit and he can hurt us greatly by simply sitting out the beginning of the season and missing the entire off season and preseason. That would kill us if we allowed it. So the key is to pick a lane and stay in it IMO.

he could sit out..... when is the last time a qb did that? NEVER. he isnt sitting out. If he does, i say screw him, lets go Cooper!

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

he could sit out..... when is the last time a qb did that? NEVER. he isnt sitting out. If he does, i say screw him, lets go Cooper!

Yeah, lets relax. I never said that he would sit out. I said he could absolutely do that. Players have done that before and they will eventually do it again. I, again, encourage you to research Dak's agent. He is a proponent of this strategy and has used it in the past on multiple occasions. Will Dak do that? I don't think he will but it could still happen and we would be foolish to discount that out of hand. JMO

 

[Reid1boys]

Yeah, lets relax. I never said that he would sit out. I said he could absolutely do that. Players have done that before and they will eventually do it again. I, again, encourage you to research Dak's agent. He is a proponent of this strategy and has used it in the past on multiple occasions. Will Dak do that? I don't think he will but it could still happen and we would be foolish to discount that out of hand. JMO

PLAYERS, yes. Go find me a starting QB in the NFL that sat out a single game over a contract dispute.. Ill wait...

 

[joseephuss]

So then, you are against this because he didn't impress you in College. So what is your opinion of Sean Payten? Do you think he's a good coach or do you think he's over rated?

I think Payton is one of the top coaches in the league. I don't put much stock in him talking up Hill. You rarely hear a coach talk poorly of a player. It is just coachspeak, in my opinion. I think Baker Mayfield is better than Hill and I don't think much of Mayfield.