FWST Blog: Cowboy's New Strength Coach Lost Out To Deion In First Go-Round

AbeBeta

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,707
Reaction score
12,432
Hostile;3846917 said:
I expected nothing less when Switzer arrived. I told anyone who would listen that he was going to have success up front with Jimmy's players and then he was going to drive this team into Dante's Inferno with a slow descent into hell.

Barry was a cancer.

Maybe Barry was a cancer - but usually I reserve that phrase for people who do it intentionally. Barry, at best, was bumbling and a terrible fit for an NFL club.

Regrettably, Barry was not a lesson for Jerry -- we continue to swing between hard nosed coaches and softies. Guys who will challenge Jerry and guys who will go along with whatever he wants. After the Barry lesson there should have been no Campo ... and possibly no Wade.
 

dmq

If I'm so pretty, why am I available?
Messages
7,450
Reaction score
957
Anyone ever watch David Blaine's Street Magic when he stops off at the Cowboy's training camp? The place had turned into a country club.
 

pancakeman

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,191
Reaction score
2,876
sago1;3846869 said:
Rumors also started spreading (Aikman again believed Sanders was the spreader) that Aikman was guy.

FWIW, he always did seem like a guy to me.
 

theebs

Believe!!!!
Messages
27,462
Reaction score
9,207
AbeBeta;3846951 said:
Maybe Barry was a cancer - but usually I reserve that phrase for people who do it intentionally. Barry, at best, was bumbling and a terrible fit for an NFL club.

Regrettably, Barry was not a lesson for Jerry -- we continue to swing between hard nosed coaches and softies. Guys who will challenge Jerry and guys who will go along with whatever he wants. After the Barry lesson there should have been no Campo ... and possibly no Wade.


in a perfect world Jerry would have hired parcells in 97.

With the core talent we still had here there is no telling what would have happened with a guy like that here at that time. He would have fit the hard working mentality of the core guys like aikman, irvin, emmitt, moose, tolbert, woodson perfectly.

and he would have fixed all those draft problems. Drives me nuts wondering what could have been.

but with guys like sanders there is no way you get a guy like parcells or similar.

Upper tier coaches dont want guys like that in there locker room unless they drafted them and have some sort of control on them.
 

YosemiteSam

Unfriendly and Aloof!
Messages
45,858
Reaction score
22,194
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Hostile;3846917 said:
I expected nothing less when Switzer arrived. I told anyone who would listen that he was going to have success up front with Jimmy's players and then he was going to drive this team into Dante's Inferno with a slow descent into hell.

Barry was a cancer.

...and I said the same thing when Wade took over.

Jerry should be paying attention to Winston Churchill.
 

Dave_in-NC

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,049
Reaction score
5,132
Hostile;3846917 said:
I expected nothing less when Switzer arrived. I told anyone who would listen that he was going to have success up front with Jimmy's players and then he was going to drive this team into Dante's Inferno with a slow descent into hell.

Barry was a cancer.

Ala Phillips? Pretty close.
 

AbeBeta

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,707
Reaction score
12,432
theebs;3846960 said:
in a perfect world Jerry would have hired parcells in 97.

With the core talent we still had here there is no telling what would have happened with a guy like that here at that time. He would have fit the hard working mentality of the core guys like aikman, irvin, emmitt, moose, tolbert, woodson perfectly.

and he would have fixed all those draft problems. Drives me nuts wondering what could have been.

but with guys like sanders there is no way you get a guy like parcells or similar.

Upper tier coaches dont want guys like that in there locker room unless they drafted them and have some sort of control on them.

i don't necessarily agree that BP would have been a great choice then. I do think you get some mileage out of moving from hard nosed to more player friendly (of course, both Jimmy and BP are much more player friendly than folks think).

and I totally disagree that BP and Sanders would have been a bad match. Bill was fond of saying "you put up with a lot for talent" -- Deion had that in spades. You put up with a few "business decisions" when you have a guy who pretty much single handily takes out whoever he locks on to.
 

802dave

Member
Messages
313
Reaction score
20
Hostile;3846917 said:
I expected nothing less when Switzer arrived. I told anyone who would listen that he was going to have success up front with Jimmy's players and then he was going to drive this team into Dante's Inferno with a slow descent into hell.

Barry was a cancer.

And I am one of the few here that remembers you from back then.
I hated that hire! and that press conference... "we've got a job to do and we're going to do it BABY"... Buffoon!
 

theebs

Believe!!!!
Messages
27,462
Reaction score
9,207
AbeBeta;3847012 said:
i don't necessarily agree that BP would have been a great choice then. I do think you get some mileage out of moving from hard nosed to more player friendly (of course, both Jimmy and BP are much more player friendly than folks think).

and I totally disagree that BP and Sanders would have been a bad match. Bill was fond of saying "you put up with a lot for talent" -- Deion had that in spades. You put up with a few "business decisions" when you have a guy who pretty much single handily takes out whoever he locks on to.

well all due respect, I completely disagree.

Parcells walked into new england and redid the entire organization, from training facilities to how they approached the draft, how the offseason was structured and how they played the game. Went from the worst team in the league to the superbowl.

then he went to the jets in 97, went from the worst team in the league to the afc championship in two seasons.

and I dont think he would have gotten along with sanders because sanders was the misunderstood hard working team first football playing dude people make him out to be.

The guys parcells had good relationships were the ones who were brash but at the same time complete workalholic football first sacrifice everything for football guys. this is the complete opposite of sanders.

everyone said parcells would love owens because he was what I just described, except in reality he wasnt and it was obvious he didnt fit in at all.

the thing to me is, had parcells or someone of his ilk been brought in after the 96 season, I almost believe there would have been a flushing of all the inbetween players and it would have been hard workers in every locker again and a guy like sanders would have not fit and wanted out.

no doubt about it, he would have been the first one to complain and would try and drag the young players to his side. But with a parcells here at that time period the young players would have been loyal to the head coach and not the owner and his star player.

would have been awesome. only it didnt happen and it wasnt awesome in the late 90s.
 

TNCowboy

Double Trouble
Messages
10,821
Reaction score
3,368
:lmao2: at people blaming Switzer, Woicik, or even Deion Sanders, for that matter.


Under Johnson's reign, every Cowboy knew whom he had to answer to. Now if Switzer called a meeting and Sanders had a problem with the time, he'd take matters into his own hands. On multiple occasions, Sanders was told he would need to arrive at Valley Ranch for, say, a 7:30am training session. "And Deion would say, 'Well, that ain't gonna work for my schedule'" says Jean-Jacques Taylor, the Morning News beat writer. "'Let's call 952 [JJones' extension] and see about that'". Sanders would connect with Jones, ask for the training to be pushed back an hour, and without fail would hear the owner say, "Sure. No problem. I'll tell Barry." - Boys Will Be Boys

As selfish and destructive as Deion Sanders was, he wasn't the issue either. The problem is obvious. No matter how much Reality and the masses in general want to pretend otherwise.
 

lcharles

Negativity King
Messages
1,799
Reaction score
1
My most loathed players to ever wear a Cowboys uniform??

1. T.O.

2. Deion



:banghead: :mad:
 

Yakuza Rich

Well-Known Member
Messages
18,043
Reaction score
12,385
Hostile;3846917 said:
I expected nothing less when Switzer arrived. I told anyone who would listen that he was going to have success up front with Jimmy's players and then he was going to drive this team into Dante's Inferno with a slow descent into hell.

Barry was a cancer.

THIS...a billion times over.

I don't think Jimmy would've had a problem with Deion.

I didn't know a lot about Barry other than he liked the wishbone and OU, from reading the Bosworth book was out of control during his HC days.

I sided with Jerry in the Jerry vs. Jimmy feud and still do to a degree because I'm waiting to see another coach go 1-15 and return the next season.

So I was ticked off at Jimmy at the time and really wasn't into Barry, but he gave that press conference when he was hired and seemed enthused about the job and I felt 'well, you can't really screw up this team.

When we beat the Steelers for the Super Bowl, I was well fed up with Switzer months before. Even with the Super Bowl victory I couldn't believe how awful of a coach he was.

We had guys on this team with a lot of problems mentally *before* Switzer and *before* Deion were here. The difference to me had ZERO to do with Deion, but had to do with Switzer. Those guys really didn't dare screw up under Jimmy, they had no issue doing that under Switzer.

I remember a story, I believe Peter King tells it, about Chad Hennings finding out somebody had stole his Super Bowl tix out of his locker and telling Jimmy about it. Jimmy called an immediate team meeting and said that if they were returned by the end of the day there would be no problem and no questions asked. But if they weren't returned, Jimmy declared that he WOULD find out who stole the tix and he WOULD make sure that person is blackballed from the league.

I have respect for Jimmy as a coach, although I'm not some blind loyalist for him. But what Jimmy's greatest strength was the players thought he was crazy and if they crossed him or let him down, he would ruin their career (on the flip side, if they met his expectations, there were big rewards). With Barry, Hennings would've been out of Super Bowl tix.






YR
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
I definitely think Jason Garrett is trying to get the franchise mentality back to where it was B.D. .. Before Deion.

Ray Sherman and Deion go way back to when Sherman was the WR coach in Atlanta, and Deion was ripping Garrett in the Dallas media every chance he got for firing Sherman. Seems like Garrett is trying to exorcise the Deion/TO demons from the lockerroom. TO is long gone, but Deion is still hovering around the periphery of Valley Ranch getting into players' ears, including Dez. Wouldn't surprise me if part of the reason Sherman was fired was to further insulate the lockerroom away from Deion.
 

Future

Intramural Legend
Messages
27,566
Reaction score
14,714
I will take Deion and a Super Bowl over a strength and conditioning guy any day of the week.

It's not like Deion was ever out of shape. I can live with working out on his time as long as he shows up ready to play.

Deion is far far far far away from being the worst Cowboy ever as far as I'm concerned.
 

theebs

Believe!!!!
Messages
27,462
Reaction score
9,207
InmanRoshi;3847111 said:
I definitely think Jason Garrett is trying to get the franchise mentality back to where it was B.D. .. Before Deion.

Ray Sherman and Deion go way back to when Sherman was the WR coach in Atlanta, and Deion was ripping Garrett in the Dallas media every chance he got for firing Sherman. Seems like Garrett is trying to exorcise the Deion/TO demons from the lockerroom. TO is long gone, but Deion is still hovering around the periphery of Valley Ranch getting into players' ears, including Dez. Wouldn't surprise me if part of the reason Sherman was fired was to further insulate the lockerroom away from Deion.


quite possilby my favorite thing parcells did here was to keep old players out. Now on one hand I love seeing older players like staubach, pearson, walls, randy white being out there..

but that wasnt what it was about. it was about keeping out the influential troublemakers who could affect the current players like sanders and irvin.

nothing made me happier than listening to sanders complain back then when parcells was here. I just knew things were different and better.
 

dreghorn2

Original Zoner (he's a good boy!)
Messages
2,341
Reaction score
2,282
Double Trouble;3847060 said:
:lmao2: at people blaming Switzer, Woicik, or even Deion Sanders, for that matter.


Under Johnson's reign, every Cowboy knew whom he had to answer to. Now if Switzer called a meeting and Sanders had a problem with the time, he'd take matters into his own hands. On multiple occasions, Sanders was told he would need to arrive at Valley Ranch for, say, a 7:30am training session. "And Deion would say, 'Well, that ain't gonna work for my schedule'" says Jean-Jacques Taylor, the Morning News beat writer. "'Let's call 952 [JJones' extension] and see about that'". Sanders would connect with Jones, ask for the training to be pushed back an hour, and without fail would hear the owner say, "Sure. No problem. I'll tell Barry." - Boys Will Be Boys

As selfish and destructive as Deion Sanders was, he wasn't the issue either. The problem is obvious. No matter how much Reality and the masses in general want to pretend otherwise.

It was amazing they won a SuperBowl with the situation as it was.

In a way Switzer did quite a job steering that team during its SB run.

Yes it was Jimmys' players, but it is extremely difficult to come in and coach in a 'must win right now!' situation at any time, with anyones players.

Take into account that Jerrys open door policy was in full throttle during those years (see quote above) and Switzer may have to be given some slack for what went on at that time.

Barrys style is not mine, and not really how i want my team run. His background is 'rough' and a lot of people have issues with that as well. However he was a good coach and in charge when the Cowboys won our last SB. I personally have a hard time just writing him off as a blackmark in our history.
 

InmanRoshi

Zone Scribe
Messages
18,334
Reaction score
90
"I still remember Deion's first team meeting," says Clayton Holmes, the veteran cornerback. "We were so fundamental about film. The way we studied it was critical. Well, Deion comes in, puts his feet up on a table and doesn't even watch." When Dave Campo, the Cowboys new defensive coordinator, asked the $35 million man to break down a play, Sanders let out a sly laugh. "Hey, Coach," he said, pointing toward the screen, "I got that dude right there. Wherever he goes I go. All that Cover Two stuff you're talking about -- y'all work that out."

....

"There was a division between Deion and Troy that began to bubble over," says Kevin Smith. "We called it 'Double Doors' at Valley Ranch. Once we walked through those double doors it was football. We could laugh and joke, but it was all about football. To Aikman, that was sacred.

"When Deion came in, something changed for the worse. Guys who should have been studying football on a Wednesday at 12 o'clock were focused on other things. Deion was such a freaky athlete that he could shake one leg and be ready to cover anyone. But the guys following his lead weren't nearly as talented. You know what they say about dogs that chase cars -- they don't live long."

One of Sanders' most devoted disciples was Sherman Williams, the rookie running back with much talent but zero work ethic. "Deion had Sherman's ear 100 percent," says Kevin Smith. "He was a rookie who'd show up around 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock in the morning, smelling like weed and rolling with a posse. Guys like Sherman needed to be reminded of the importance of hard work. That did not come from Deion."

"You led by example," adds Dale Hellestrae, the offensive lineman. "And his example wasn't very good."

....

Though he talked as if he were the Muhammad Ali of the gridiron, Sanders' play in 1995 was merely OK. In nine games as a defensive back, Sanders intercepted two passes and contributed a paltry 22 tackles (that's a robust $318,182 per tackle).

"Personally," says one Cowboy, "I thought Kevin Smith was a better player." Whereas the other primary cornerbacks -- Smith, Larry Brown and Clayton Holmes -- embraced contact, Sanders was a feather duster. When he tackled, it was with the gusto of a 90-year-old woman.

"One time a running back ran a sweep toward him, and Deion dove half-hearted into the turf," says Case. "We're watching film the next day, razzing him pretty good. As serious as could be, he said, 'I saw that dude coming and I had to make a business decision.'"

An exerpt from Boys Will Be Boys....
 

AbeBeta

Well-Known Member
Messages
35,707
Reaction score
12,432
theebs;3847051 said:
well all due respect, I completely disagree.

Parcells walked into new england and redid the entire organization, from training facilities to how they approached the draft, how the offseason was structured and how they played the game. Went from the worst team in the league to the superbowl.

He certainly did. But Bill's think is taking a bad team and remaking it. That is exactly where the hard nosed guy is going to be strongest. What we needed at that time was a guy who could come in and manage veterans. Instead we went with a bumbling college guy.


theebs;3847051 said:
and I dont think he would have gotten along with sanders because sanders was the misunderstood hard working team first football playing dude people make him out to be.

The guys parcells had good relationships were the ones who were brash but at the same time complete workalholic football first sacrifice everything for football guys. this is the complete opposite of sanders.

Sanders was a CB. If your CB takes his guy completely out of the game, your coach is going to love him. From Bill's own mouth "you put up with a lot for talent." Would that relationship have had some bumps? Sure. But Bill was never a guy to run talent off the team. Now if Bill was the coach near the end of Deion's time you can be sure that he would have sent him packing much earlier. But in his prime? No way.
 

YosemiteSam

Unfriendly and Aloof!
Messages
45,858
Reaction score
22,194
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
lcharles;3847096 said:
My most loathed players to ever wear a Cowboys uniform??

1. T.O.

2. Deion



:banghead: :mad:

For me it's the other way around.

1. Deion
2. Pacman
3. Tank Johnson
4. TO
 
Top