FWST JFE: Jason Garrett: the next Sean Payton?

[casmith07]

Payton seemed to learn it a lot faster. Redball really has not seemed to have made much progress.

You guys forget pretty soon how bad Sean Payton was at game-planning and playcalling a few seasons ago.

 

[Woods]

Funny who things can change on a dime:

Versus the Minn Vikings, just a few weeks ago, many were wondering what happened to NO's offense, esp in the 2nd half . . . . In fact, NO's offense was getting esp conservative.

That said, I think Payton is a very good motivator and HC and has evolved over the past few years.

And I do think Red will also improve his coaching skills. I doubt Garrett goes anywhere this season as an NFL HC. We'll see what happens after this season.

 

[The Realist]

The article states Wade ignores the offense.

Wade stated last offseason he wanted the running game to improve.

Went from 27th to 7th.

 

[lcharles]

Jason Garrett: the next Sean Payton?


Jennifer Floyd Engel, 817-390-7760
Looking for comments?

:fact: :clap2:

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I believe she is referring to how his stint as an offensive coordinator in Arizona (taking them to the Super Bowl) was received.

Before that he was a laughingstock in Dallas being known as the coach who Bill Parcells punched off the sidelines.

Shoved by Parcells. Big difference from being 'punched.' And it was because Haley was mouthing off to the officials (although to Haley's credit, the refs had a doozy of a bad game).

I guess JFE believes that Parcells should have been fired while we hired first time coach Payton. Like any owner in their right mind would have ever done that.

I think we saw some improvement of Garrett vs. 2008, but I still don't think he's ready to be a HC and he's got full autonomy over the playcalling. Despite that, the defense clearly outplayed the offense in '09, and yet JFE is too ignorant to understand that and wants Wade gone and Garrett as HC. Let's get the offense playing clearly better than the defense first before we start annointing Garrett as the next Bill Walsh.

One last thing, Payton had the INCREDIBLE fortune of getting Drew Brees. How often do you see a team pick up a Pro Bowl QB who is in the *beginning* of his prime in free agency? That's an almost remarkable amount of luck. Then consider that Brees wanted to go the Dolphins and was set to go there, but didn't pass their physical.

I think Payton has obviously done a great job there in New Orleans, but he had his growing pains there with the Saints as well (there was some Saints fans calling for his job after the '08 season). But, with some luck and some patience, things worked out. Hopefully we'll see that from Garrett as well. But again, let's see the offense look great and clearly out-perform the defense first before we start getting that annointing oil ready.





YAKUZA

 

[casmith07]

The article states Wade ignores the offense.

Wade stated last offseason he wanted the running game to improve.

Went from 27th to 7th.

Wade's the worst coach ever though. Just ask this board.

 

[TheCount]

Wade's the worst coach ever though. Just ask this board.

Maybe before he won a playoff game and led the team to a solid December. Now, I think the general opinion of him is much improved, and he earned it.

 

[Alexander]

Wade's the worst coach ever though. Just ask this board.

He is still not a well-rounded head coach. His offenses in Denver and Buffalo were bland and simple and were it not for Garrett, we would have someone like Joe Pendry running our offense.

He is just not that involved or apparently interested in the offensive side of the football. Not a fatal fault, as most coaches have their areas they dabble in the most. He is actually fairly fortunate he has Garrett and it is clear how much autonomy he has. Comtrast that to Payton's tenure here were Parcells was watching over him like a hawk.

 

[burmafrd]

IT seems pretty clear that Garret owns the O while Wade owns the D. the only decisions Wade makes are like going on 4th down or something like that.

Considering what NY had at the time I wonder if anyone would have accomplished much as OC. I think it was more of a personality conflict then anything else.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

He is actually fairly fortunate he has Garrett and it is clear how much autonomy he has. Comtrast that to Payton's tenure here were Parcells was watching over him like a hawk.

What are you saying here?

And no one has a more "bland and simple" offense than your Coach Parcells. Doesn't mean it can't be effective.

 

[LandryFan]

That might be the best JFE article I've ever read.

You also like diahrrea, don't you?

 

[Don Corleone]

Wade's the worst coach ever though. Just ask this board.

:laugh2:

The funny thing is that I see a lot in common between Jim Caldwell of the Colts, and Wade. Does Jim Caldwell look like an intimidator that coaches by fear? Yet, the mediots seem to love the guy. Granted, he doesn't have the history that Wade does.

Make no mistake. Fans and mediots alike would have crucified Wade if he were on the losing end of SB44 like Caldwell was.

 

[wileedog]

Considering what NY had at the time I wonder if anyone would have accomplished much as OC. I think it was more of a personality conflict then anything else.

Consider it was Jim Fassel that tossed him out.

Notice how much work he's gotten lately?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I think I will throw a monkey wrench into the thread some what.

I have seen many here claim that Garrett has full autonomy on the offensive side of the ball.

I actually do not believe that.

I think he is hamstringed with certain players because of ownership.

I would like to think that if he had his way Roy Williams would not be the starter nor would Marion Barber right now.

Now I think we saw some of that change towards the end of the season where Felix was getting more touches and we started seeing Hurd and Ogletree get playing time in spots instead of Roy Williams.

So...I tend to believe that he does not have total control of the offense. Now that is not to say that Jerry is the first or only owner that will demand that certain players are starters (look at Kerry Collins/Vince Young) but I think he does have some control over who Garret may or may not want to be on the bench or as starters in some cases. I would also say that although Wade mainly sticks to the D side of the ball I imagine he has some say in a few areas like starters not losing their jobs due to injury (Columbo/Free at RT situation) although to be fair that is something that many coaches believe.

Just some things to consider when someone claims that Jason has full control over the offense.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

:laugh2:

The funny thing is that I see a lot in common between Jim Caldwell of the Colts, and Wade. Does Jim Caldwell look like an intimidator that coaches by fear? Yet, the mediots seem to love the guy. Granted, he doesn't have the history that Wade does.

Make no mistake. Fans and mediots alike would have crucified Wade if he were on the losing end of SB44 like Caldwell was.

They may love him but I have heard many different people in the media say that Manning is the coach of that team on offense and that Caldwell does not have to do much because of manning. So there is good and bad with that in some areas. He will probably never get the credit that other coaches would get because of Manning and Dungy being there before with that Defense (although it was far from the D that Dungy had with Tampa).

 

[TheCount]

:laugh2:

The funny thing is that I see a lot in common between Jim Caldwell of the Colts, and Wade. Does Jim Caldwell look like an intimidator that coaches by fear? Yet, the mediots seem to love the guy. Granted, he doesn't have the history that Wade does.

Make no mistake. Fans and mediots alike would have crucified Wade if he were on the losing end of SB44 like Caldwell was.

NO coach gets crucified for losing the Superbowl, are you kidding me?

 

[Hostile]

I believe Jason Garrett will end up being a better Head Coach than Sean Payton. I think he is further along then Payton was at the same intersections in their careers.

Note for those who cannot translate plain English, I am not dissing Sean Payton. Their circumstances are not exactly similar. The main comparison seems to be their time in Dallas as the OC.

I think the biggest strike against Jason Garrett is that Jerry Jones loves him. I am being dead serious when I say that. He got hired before Wade and Head Couches and Couch GMs everywhere flew off the handle. Immediately the guy had to be perfect, or he was a flop. It has been unreal to watch that process.

Then again, what do I know about football. I'm just here to be a homer if you ask some people. Forget direction or anything else. Immediate results or failure. That is the motto. It is utterly ridiculous, but such is the reality of a world who complain that the media know nothing at all and then parrot that media word for bloody word. I agree, they know very little, but if you accept that as fact then don't repeat it and claim wisdom has been spewed.

The second biggest strike against Garrett seems to be that he wants to be a Head Coach. Damn him for dreams. He should be our version of Jim Johnson who was fine with being a Coordinator his entire talented coaching career.

I think he is potentially the best Head Coach we have had since Jimmy Johnson and he could actually surpass Jimmy in some ways, though he will always trail him in others.

 

[CF74]

I think I will throw a monkey wrench into the thread some what.

I have seen many here claim that Garrett has full autonomy on the offensive side of the ball.

I actually do not believe that.

I think he is hamstringed with certain players because of ownership.

I would like to think that if he had his way Roy Williams would not be the starter nor would Marion Barber right now.

Now I think we saw some of that change towards the end of the season where Felix was getting more touches and we started seeing Hurd and Ogletree get playing time in spots instead of Roy Williams.

So...I tend to believe that he does not have total control of the offense. Now that is not to say that Jerry is the first or only owner that will demand that certain players are starters (look at Kerry Collins/Vince Young) but I think he does have some control over who Garret may or may not want to be on the bench or as starters in some cases. I would also say that although Wade mainly sticks to the D side of the ball I imagine he has some say in a few areas like starters not losing their jobs due to injury (Columbo/Free at RT situation) although to be fair that is something that many coaches believe.

Just some things to consider when someone claims that Jason has full control over the offense.

Absolutely.
I would break down control of our offense like this:
60% Garrett
20% Jerry
20% Wade
Not to be taken literally but more for illustration purposes. There are certain guys playing because either Jerry or Wade wants it that way and Garrett is the third man down on the totem pole. As far as play calling is concerned, Wade has his hands in the mix as well, maybe not as much but he does over ride some of the decisions...

 

[Alexander]

I think I will throw a monkey wrench into the thread some what.

I have seen many here claim that Garrett has full autonomy on the offensive side of the ball.

I actually do not believe that.

So you are saying he gets a high degree direction from Phillips in that regard? I highly doubt it. Now I might believe there is the idea that Phillips trusts younger players less. We have seen some evidence of that on the defensive side of the football and if he indeed determines who plays and does not, it makes some sense. I was referring moreso to the notion that he would be nearly as hands on and authoritative as Parcells was. That I have no question that he is not.

I think he is hamstringed with certain players because of ownership.

I would like to think that if he had his way Roy Williams would not be the starter nor would Marion Barber right now.

I am apt to blame Jones for quite a few things, but this? Not positive.

Now I think we saw some of that change towards the end of the season where Felix was getting more touches and we started seeing Hurd and Ogletree get playing time in spots instead of Roy Williams.

And didn't Jones suggest most of them? I distinctly remember him calling out for more Olgetree and Jones through the season.

 

[Boyzmamacita]

Shoved by Parcells. Big difference from being 'punched.'

YAKUZA

http://i756.***BLOCKED***/albums/xx201/vidstar/DCC_Parcells-Haley-punch.gif

Looks like a punch to me.:laugh2: