Garrett and Phillips

[visionary]

its not an excuse. its reality. I think as fans we are sick and tired of just blaming jerry. that will never change, so lets put everything on garrett. why? it gives us hope to have him fired because Jerry is not going anywhere. and the next coach brings hope. so did campo, so did gaily, so did parcells, so did wade. and it ended up all the same.

even bilicheck wouldn't find success here. that's the bottom line.

Sorry. Campo and bailey brought no hope and most fans who understand football did not like the wade hire
It is not the new coach syndrome, it is recognizing that garret is a less than mediocre coach only a couple of steps above campo and adds very little value

 

[TwoDeep3]

Sorry. Campo and bailey brought no hope and most fans who understand football did not like the wade hire
It is not the new coach syndrome, it is recognizing that garret is a less than mediocre coach only a couple of steps above campo and adds very little value

Out of all the magpies brought in just before naming Wade the next contestant on Jerry is Right, I liked Norv. Which goes to show you my level of expertise, since Rivera seems to have figured something out. Like building a defense.

But then there is that pesky game show played here where the points double during the drafting rounds.

 

[visionary]

Out of all the magpies brought in just before naming Wade the next contestant on Jerry is Right, I liked Norv. Which goes to show you my level of expertise, since Rivera seems to have figured something out. Like building a defense.

But then there is that pesky game show played here where the points double during the drafting rounds.

I think that hoping for Norv was not a reflection of people's lack of football knowledge rather of our desperation

 

[birdwells1]

It would take someone with a big pair, like belicheck who would come in, ignore Jerry and do things his way.

Jerry would hate it but if he were winning there is not a whole lot he could do about it without losing the fanbase.

That would be fun to watch play out.

That's right, this is why JJ likes to hire guy's that have no NFL clout, it kinda happened when Parcells was here remember saying that he "didn't have to walk on egg shells anymore" when Bill left?

 

[TwoDeep3]

I think that hoping for Norv was not a reflection of people's lack of football knowledge rather of our desperation

ok

 

[WPBCowboysFan]

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It would take someone with a big pair, like belicheck who would come in, ignore Jerry and do things his way.

Jerry would hate it but if he were winning there is not a whole lot he could do about it without losing the fanbase.

That would be fun to watch play out.

parcells tried and some how jerry interfered, like getting TO and making his own moves....

yeah, it would be fun, but good coaches like that aren't stupid enough to come to dallas. people often talk that we should have gone after harbaugh. I am not sure harbaugh was stupid enough to come here.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Sorry. Campo and bailey brought no hope and most fans who understand football did not like the wade hire
It is not the new coach syndrome, it is recognizing that garret is a less than mediocre coach only a couple of steps above campo and adds very little value

garrett is average, three stratigh 8-8 seasons show that.

he is way above campo. so I understand the hate for garrett, but seriously. campo was a joke.


and to my other point, no coach would find success here, unless you think just getting to the playoffs is success enough.

 

[Coy]

I guess I'm not sure of the connection between Dallas and SF, except both teams changed coaches. I mean teams changes coaches like they do underwear and the results with the new coach can be all over the board.

But let's bring thing back into focus as it applies to the Cowboys...

Wade benefitted from the teams strong drafting in 2003, 2004 & 2005. You look at the draft boards and it's apparent.

While at drafts from 2006 until 2009 have been correctly identified as being poor, if not horrendous.

Whoever was coaching this team from 2010 on what going to have to "pay" for those years of poor drafting, while whoever coached the team prior to 2010 was going to benefit.

Although I do not agree with you I see your point, two things to consider though:

1-Garrett was OC from 2007 to 2009 so he had to have some kind of input on those terrible drafts.

2- A good draft doesn´t necessarily mean you need to wait 4 years to reap the benefits on the field, and since we had good teams from 2006 to 2010 we didn´t exactly have to rebuild from scratch (actually most of our star payers were the same) plus we´ve had some good drafts since 2010 and we´ve done nothing with it and like it or not the HC has to shoulder most of the blame IMO.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Although I do not agree with you I see your point, two things to consider though:

1-Garrett was OC from 2007 to 2009 so he had to have some kind of input on those terrible drafts.

2- A good draft doesn´t necessarily mean you need to wait 4 years to reap the benefits on the field, and since we had good teams from 2006 to 2010 we didn´t exactly have to rebuild from scratch (actually most of our star payers were the same) plus we´ve had some good drafts since 2010 and we´ve done nothing with it and like it or not the HC has to shoulder most of the blame IMO.

I agree that Garret had some input on drafts. But the Cowboy's brain trust was infatuated with Felix Jones. I don't think JG had to do much (if any) arm-twisting to get Jerry to draft Felix Jones.

The only other upper-end offensive player skill player drafted by the Cowboys during the JG OC time frame was Bennett... Who has turned out to be a pretty decent TE.

Brewster the OL, selected in the 3rd round was a Hudson Houck pet cat.

The teams from '06 to '10 got old... got ineffective. And there was nothing to replace those guy as they dropped off the map in '10, '11 and '12, because the drafts sucked from '06 to '09.

 

[Coy]

I agree that Garret had some input on drafts. But the Cowboy's brain trust was infatuated with Felix Jones. I don't think JG had to do much (if any) arm-twisting to get Jerry to draft Felix Jones.

The only other upper-end offensive player skill player drafted by the Cowboys during the JG OC time frame was Bennett... Who has turned out to be a pretty decent TE.

Brewster the OL, selected in the 3rd round was a Hudson Houck pet cat.

The teams from '06 to '10 got old... got ineffective. And there was nothing to replace those guy as they dropped off the map in '10, '11 and '12, because the drafts sucked from '06 to '09.

Ok, but what about the drafts form 2011 to 2013? with those drafts plus the FA´s added to this team and with all the star players like Romo, Ware, Dez, Witten, Lee, Austin, Hatcher, Spencer also on the team and most in their prime don´t you think this team should be in the playoffs almost year in and year out?

I don´t think Garrett can have the excuse of poor drafting from 06 to 09, he just hasn´t done the job and I think he would be the first one to admit it.

By the way we got Dez and Lee in the 2010 draft, not so bad I´d say.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Ok, but what about the drafts form 2011 to 2013? with those drafts plus the FA´s added to this team and with all the star players like Romo, Ware, Dez, Witten, Lee, Austin, Hatcher, Spencer also on the team and most in their prime don´t you think this team should be in the playoffs almost year in and year out?

I don´t think Garrett can have the excuse of poor drafting from 06 to 09, he just hasn´t done the job and I think he would be the first one to admit it.

By the way we got Dez and Lee in the 2010 draft, not so bad I´d say.

I have no problems with the 2010 draft... It was the 4 before that which were putrid.

One game from making the playoffs 3 years in a row... Yeah, it's like kissing your sister, but it doesn't make you a bottom dweller either.

The team has been poor on the defensive side of the ball for each of the 8-8 seasons... In some cases historically poor. In some cases injuries can be blamed (the LB meltdown in '12 and the 19 defensive linemen used in '13). And yeah I do allow injuries to be an excuse.

Fix the pass defense and this will be a playoff team. Continue to being a bottom dweller when it comes to the number of yards given up per attempt and you'll miss the playoffs regardless of who the HC is.

 

[ConstantReboot]

I see Wade hasn't stopped trying to convince the world he is a good head coach. He must have a card in his wallet with all his statistical arguments ready at every turn. Phillips sucks as a head coach and Jerry sucks for not seeing what the rest of the nfl already knew.

I don't think that he's trying to convince that world his a good coach. Maybe his trying to convince the world he was a better coach than Garrett which I tend to agree with.

 

[Coy]

I have no problems with the 2010 draft... It was the 4 before that which were putrid.

One game from making the playoffs 3 years in a row... Yeah, it's like kissing your sister, but it doesn't make you a bottom dweller either.

The team has been poor on the defensive side of the ball for each of the 8-8 seasons... In some cases historically poor. In some cases injuries can be blamed (the LB meltdown in '12 and the 19 defensive linemen used in '13). And yeah I do allow injuries to be an excuse.

Fix the pass defense and this will be a playoff team. Continue to being a bottom dweller when it comes to the number of yards given up per attempt and you'll miss the playoffs regardless of who the HC is.

I think a good HC should be able to do something about that, call it talent, DC, play calling, run the ball more on offense, play keep away etc. Garrett has to deserve some if not most of the blame for the results on the field, he is in charge, this is a bottom line bussiness and he has failed. Even if we all know Jerry's faults as a GM.
Wade won after Parcells, Parcells won after Campo, (take a look at that team), even Gailey won after Switzer and those horrible drafts, good HC's win, bad ones don't.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I think a good HC should be able to do something about that, call it talent, DC, play calling, run the ball more on offense, play keep away etc. Garrett has to deserve some if not most of the blame for the results on the field, he is in charge, this is a bottom line bussiness and he has failed. Even if we all know Jerry's faults as a GM.
Wade won after Parcells, Parcells won after Campo, (take a look at that team), even Gailey won after Switzer and those horrible drafts, good HC's win, bad ones don't.

Tom Landry was 25 and 53 over his first 6 seasons... with not one single winning season.

Bill Bilichick was 36 and 44 in his 5 seasons at Cleveland.


And NO, I am not suggesting that Garrett is anywhere close to being the equal of either of those two.

But getting the team within 1 game of the playoffs in 2013 while using 19 different defensive linemen lifts him beyond being "Campoesque" IMO.

Some decent drafts have been strung together... some deadwood has been and is being removed... Let's see what 2014 brings.

Regardless of what anyone things of Garrett at this point... good, bad, indifferent he's here for this season. Let's let it play out.

 

[WV Cowboy]

I don't think that he's trying to convince that world his a good coach. Maybe his trying to convince the world he was a better coach than Garrett which I tend to agree with.

Ha, .. hey Wade, .. so we are conceding that you are a better coach than Garrett, but we still aren't saying that you are a good coach.

Where does that put Garrett ? LOL

 

[Coy]

Tom Landry was 25 and 53 over his first 6 seasons... with not one single winning season.

Bill Bilichick was 36 and 44 in his 5 seasons at Cleveland.


And NO, I am not suggesting that Garrett is anywhere close to being the equal of either of those two.

But getting the team within 1 game of the playoffs in 2013 while using 19 different defensive linemen lifts him beyond being "Campoesque" IMO.

Some decent drafts have been strung together... some deadwood has been and is being removed... Let's see what 2014 brings.

Regardless of what anyone things of Garrett at this point... good, bad, indifferent he's here for this season. Let's let it play out.

Let me be clear, I would love for Garrett to turn out great and maybe win a playoff game or two this year, I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost, I just don’t see it happening.

I don´t bash on Garrett just because, I really think he is a very bad HC, I don’t see a coaching philosophy, I don´t see accountability, I really don’t. I do like him however as maybe a GM but I don´t get the excuses people make for this guy (not talking about you), he should be able to get the job done and he simply hasn´t, he has failed, results are what they are.

In any industry in the world if the CEO doesn´t reach his or her objectives and not only that doesn´t show improvement for three years in a row he most probably get fired but not here, not with Jerry.

And about Landry or Belichick, you said it yourself, you are probably talking about 2 of the best 5 HC ever.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Tom Landry was 25 and 53 over his first 6 seasons... with not one single winning season.

Bill Bilichick was 36 and 44 in his 5 seasons at Cleveland.

And NO, I am not suggesting that Garrett is anywhere close to being the equal of either of those two

Then why bring them into the conversation?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Let me be clear, I would love for Garrett to turn out great and maybe win a playoff game or two this year, I am a Cowboys fan first and foremost, I just don’t see it happening.

I don´t bash on Garrett just because, I really think he is a very bad HC, I don’t see a coaching philosophy, I don´t see accountability, I really don’t. I do like him however as maybe a GM but I don´t get the excuses people make for this guy (not talking about you), he should be able to get the job done and he simply hasn´t, he has failed, results are what they are.

In any industry in the world if the CEO doesn´t reach his or her objectives and not only that doesn´t show improvement for three years in a row he most probably get fired but not here, not with Jerry.

And about Landry or Belichick, you said it yourself, you are probably talking about 2 of the best 5 HC ever.

The challenge is that I firmly believe that building a winning club needs more than good coaching. You need good ownership/team management and good player acquisition.

And I think several of the Cowboy coaches have suffered due inadequacies elsewhere in the organization.

Joe Torre wasn't considered anything special as a manager until he went to the Yankees and had the privilege of having solid ownership combined with a smart GM in Cashman. Joe Torre is a HOF now because of what he accomplished in New York. And that accomplishment wouldn't have happened without the other "two legs of the stool" being in place.

Garrett isn't the CEO. The CEO has the ability to call all the shots, which of course he doesn't or can't. And the true CEO isn't likely to change his spots any time soon.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Then why bring them into the conversation?

Easy, because while those two coaches were floundering, no one would have suggested that they were very good coaches either. As a matter of fact I remember the shots at Bill B. after his tour at Cleveland.