Garrett and Phillips

[MichaelWinicki]

It's amazing how Rod Marinelli and Kiffin had only been here several months but talked Jerry out of a player we had rated top 5 on our draft board but Garrett, Jerry's hand picked HC in waiting had nothing to do with building those teams while he was OC. Gotta love the logic.

Fair enough, but look at the first three rounds of the following drafts:
2006
Carpenter
Fasano
Hatcher

2007
Spencer
Marten

2008
Felix
Jenkins
Bennett

2009
Jason Williams
Robert Brewster

That's 5 offensive players. Two of which were linemen. One of which I know was a "pet cat" of Hudson Houck (Brewster). Personally I don't see Garrett having much if at all any input in the selection of Marten either.

That leaves Fasano, Felix and Bennett. All three guys are still playing in the NFL with each having some bright moments. If Garrett had a strong hand in selecting any of them, well then I'm not too concerned because I think two out of the three have done reasonably well, with Felix being a disappointment.

In addition 5 defensive players were chosen, so it wasn't like offensive was favored over the defense in the first 3 rounds of these drafts.

Personally I think the whole "Garrett should be partially blamed for the whole Wade Phillips mess" is weak.

 

[tantrix1969]

You have to add Roy Williams in as a pick(s) for Garrett imho

 

[MichaelWinicki]

You have to add Roy Williams in as a pick(s) for Garrett imho

With Jerry's history when it comes to his infatuation with wide receivers, i.e. Galloway?

Hey if someone at the time went to virtually every OC in the NFL and said, "Hey would you be interested in having Roy Williams as a wide receiver?"

What do you think they were going to say?

"No?"

Come'on.

And certainly it wasn't Garrett who negotiated the terms of the trade and the resulting contract extension. That has Jerry's mitts all over it.

 

[Dodger12]

Fair enough, but look at the first three rounds of the following drafts:
2006
Carpenter
Fasano
Hatcher

2007
Spencer
Marten

2008
Felix
Jenkins
Bennett

2009
Jason Williams
Robert Brewster

That's 5 offensive players. Two of which were linemen. One of which I know was a "pet cat" of Hudson Houck (Brewster). Personally I don't see Garrett having much if at all any input in the selection of Marten either.

That leaves Fasano, Felix and Bennett. All three guys are still playing in the NFL with each having some bright moments. If Garrett had a strong hand in selecting any of them, well then I'm not too concerned because I think two out of the three have done reasonably well, with Felix being a disappointment.

In addition 5 defensive players were chosen, so it wasn't like offensive was favored over the defense in the first 3 rounds of these drafts.

Personally I think the whole "Garrett should be partially blamed for the whole Wade Phillips mess" is weak.

Not sure why you included 2006 since JG wasn't around and I also don't see how Felix wasn't a completely useless draft pick considering we had a #1 running back and we used a first round pick on a back-up. The whole philosophy is flawed.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Not sure why you included 2006 since JG wasn't around and I also don't see how Felix wasn't a completely useless draft pick considering we had a #1 running back and we used a first round pick on a back-up. The whole philosophy is flawed.

Even if you remove the 2006 draft the affect is minimal.

And if the philosophy was flawed... blame the folks making the selections.

Bottom line, there are enough thing to bash Garrett with, but to hang failures from Wade's tenure on him... well that's a bit much.

 

[Little Jr]

We are talking about Dallas Cowboys head coaches, .. why do we care what Wade did prior to coaching here?

I don't know. You would have to ask the person who asked what wades record was his 1st 56 games. I'm assuming he was trying to make the argument that it would be a better comparison since wade had hc experience before the cowboys hc gig and jg didn't. Either way it didn't work out well for him to ask because wade still had a better record and made the playoffs in his 1st 56.like I said ask him why. I believe his comment was on the 1st or 2nd page.

 

[visionary]

Not sure why you included 2006 since JG wasn't around and I also don't see how Felix wasn't a completely useless draft pick considering we had a #1 running back and we used a first round pick on a back-up. The whole philosophy is flawed.

He is trying to find any excuse he can for Garrett and that is a tough job given his horrible track record, so give him a break and let him make stuff up

 

[visionary]

That's what I have always wondered about.

I used to wonder if Parcells just 'punked' Jerry for 4 million a year.

I can just see him with his New Jersey buddies, in some back room, smoking big cigars, .. "I'll go down to Dallas, take Jerry's money, .. but I promise you guys, they will never win a thing."

I mean, think about it, ... he is a Jersey guy, head coach of the N Y freakin' Giants.

Have you ever heard the story of the Trojan Horse?

Why would he ever want to bring glory to the Dallas Cowboys?

Parcells was a shadow of himself when he showed up here , even then he was a huge positive influence on the organization and was head and shoulders above all our HCs since jimmy

That is the pathetic mess this organization has been under the thumb of one Jerry jones and his sons (Stephen and Jason )

 

[MichaelWinicki]

He is trying to find any excuse he can for Garrett and that is a tough job given his horrible track record, so give him a break and let him make stuff up

As opposed to someone who hates every fiber of the Cowboys from the CEO down and each and every one of them is blamed for everything from the bubonic plaque to the Apollo 1 fire.

 

[visionary]

As opposed to someone who hates every fiber of the Cowboys from the CEO down and each and every one of them is blamed for everything from the bubonic plaque to the Apollo 1 fire.

See what I mean about making stuff up

I have been on this board and the old DMN board for 15 years and my post history can be seen by others. I am a fan and love the cowboys but I hate how they are being run into the ground by a lunatic ego maniac and his family so I voice my disgust .

You and your ilk are fans and shills for Jerry and his incompetence , that is plain for all to see as well. Jerry never did anything stupid you can't find an excuse for. I am a fan of the team and you are a fan of the owner.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

See what I mean about making stuff up

I have been on this board and the old DMN board for 15 years and my post history can be seen by others. I am a fan and love the cowboys but I hate how they are being run into the ground by a lunatic ego maniac and his family so I voice my disgust .

You and your ilk are fans and shills for Jerry and his incompetence , that is plain for all to see as well. Jerry never did anything stupid you can't find an excuse for. I am a fan of the team and you are a fan of the owner.

I consider Risen Star to be a buddy of mine, and we disagree on many things... which is perfectly OK.

I still respect his opinion– and you know why? Because it's not always negative, 24-7. He'll acknowledge good players and good coaches.

Even the folks that you think are "Jerry-homers" have on many occasions derided the Cowboys brain-trust for decisions that were thought to be flawed.

But you don't ever "hear" that. Why? You're too busy screaming "I hate the Cowboys" at the top of your lungs that you drown out everything. And consequently your opinion, even among those that dislike much more about the team than I do, become deaf to your message.

Even if this team were 0-16 every season, I would hope that I would never become that bitter.

And I've followed the team since SB5.

 

[Idgit]

See what I mean about making stuff up

I have been on this board and the old DMN board for 15 years and my post history can be seen by others. I am a fan and love the cowboys but I hate how they are being run into the ground by a lunatic ego maniac and his family so I voice my disgust .

You and your ilk are fans and shills for Jerry and his incompetence , that is plain for all to see as well. Jerry never did anything stupid you can't find an excuse for. I am a fan of the team and you are a fan of the owner.

It's bizarre that you can read his posts and then come away with a take like this which is so obviously just factually wrong. Jerry gets so much legitimate criticism on this board from posters of all temperaments, it's not even funny. You're trying to drive a wedge hat doesn't exist.

The real issues arise when people diagnose what's really wrong with the team differently. Not when one imaginary group doesn't think there's anything wrong with the current structure of the Cowboys.

 

[visionary]

I consider Risen Star to be a buddy of mine, and we disagree on many things... which is perfectly OK.

I still respect his opinion– and you know why? Because it's not always negative, 24-7. He'll acknowledge good players and good coaches.

Even the folks that you think are "Jerry-homers" have on many occasions derided the Cowboys brain-trust for decisions that were thought to be flawed.

But you don't ever "hear" that. Why? You're too busy screaming "I hate the Cowboys" at the top of your lungs that you drown out everything. And consequently your opinion, even among those that dislike much more about the team than I do, become deaf to your message.

Even if this team were 0-16 every season, I would hope that I would never become that bitter.

And I've followed the team since SB5.

Once again making stuff up as u go along

Not sure why u r bringing up RS but just yesterday one of your buddies said exactly the same thing about him, that he is constantly negative..... Go figure so clearly ur example falls flat on its face. U guys will call others names when you get desperate.

Your constant excuse making has been evident for a long time , when many of us were pointing out the need to upgrade the OL, u were telling us how great costa and Arkin were going to be, when we wanted DL/front 7 to be upgraded, u were telling us we need more CBs and defences are built on great secondaries

So please excuse me if I take ur opinion with a huge helping of salt

 

[visionary]

It's bizarre that you can read his posts and then come away with a take like this ......

By the same token , I think it is bizarre that you can read his posts (or yours) and not come away with that opinion

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Once again making stuff up as u go along

Not sure why u r bringing up RS but just yesterday one of your buddies said exactly the same thing about him, that he is constantly negative..... Go figure so clearly ur example falls flat on its face. U guys will call others names when you get desperate.

Your constant excuse making has been evident for a long time , when many of us were pointing out the need to upgrade the OL, u were telling us how great costa and Arkin were going to be, when we wanted DL/front 7 to be upgraded, u were telling us we need more CBs and defences are built on great secondaries

So please excuse me if I take ur opinion with a huge helping of salt

I'm sorry that you no longer can find anything at all positive about the team.

That's got to be a tough way to go through life.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I find it bizarre to claim that someone who thinks Jerry and Garrett are less than competent must "hate everything about the team."

 

[visionary]

I'm sorry that you no longer can find anything at all positive about the team.

That's got to be a tough way to go through life.

Oh I can see the positives like Dez and Tyron and t Fred
The problem is that they are FAR outweighed by the negatives in Jerry, Stephen, and Jason causing poor talent evaluation, poor cap management, lack of discipline, etc

And I am sorry that you can't see things factually and objectively

That is a sad way to go through life

 

[MichaelWinicki]

And I am sorry that you can't see things factually and objectively

That is a sad way to go through life

Yeah. That's the ticket.

 

[Idgit]

I find it bizarre to claim that someone who thinks Jerry and Garrett are less than competent must "hate everything about the team."

Those things aren't mutually inclusive. Many think Jerry and Garrett aren't sufficiently competent and yet don't have visionary's logically courageous post history.

 

[jnday]

With Jerry's history when it comes to his infatuation with wide receivers, i.e. Galloway?

Hey if someone at the time went to virtually every OC in the NFL and said, "Hey would you be interested in having Roy Williams as a wide receiver?"

What do you think they were going to say?

"No?"

Come'on.

And certainly it wasn't Garrett who negotiated the terms of the trade and the resulting contract extension. That has Jerry's mitts all over it.

IIRC , Jerry got Williams at Garrett's request. At the time, Garrett wanted a second receiver to get the most out of his offense. I would say that Garrett should take a little heat for Williams. It was Jerry that went out and gave away the farm. Millen said in an interview that he believed he could have got more out of Jerry.