Garrett and Phillips

jnday said:
IIRC , Jerry got Williams at Garrett's request. At the time, Garrett wanted a second receiver to get the most out of his offense. I would say that Garrett should take a little heat for Williams. It was Jerry that went out and gave away the farm. Millen said in an interview that he believed he could have got more out of Jerry.
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That's pretty bad when one of the worse GM's in NFL history said if he wanted he could have sucker punched Jerry more than he did.
 
BoysFan4ever said:
That's pretty bad when one of the worse GM's in NFL history said if he wanted he could have sucker punched Jerry more than he did.
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That is what he said during an interview on national TV. I really don't have any reason to doubt Matt Millen.
 
MichaelWinicki said:
Even if you remove the 2006 draft the affect is minimal.

And if the philosophy was flawed... blame the folks making the selections.

Bottom line, there are enough thing to bash Garrett with, but to hang failures from Wade's tenure on him... well that's a bit much.
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Any shortcomings or failures during Wade's tenure is as much on Garrett as it is on Wade. We had two head coaches during that time and we all knew it. Garrett bought into it as well and I don't think for a second he was a good soldier who had a clear chain of command through Wade. Well, it's quid pro quo for Mr. Garrett, only this time it's a D-line coach who has/had a louder voice then him on draft day.

And can you tell me who makes the decisions? I mean, we all know who makes the "final" decision, we've been reminded of that on an almost daily basis. But how do you know with any definitive sense that Garrett didn't have a say on the O-linemen, TE, WR's, etc. selected under him?
 
jnday said:
IIRC , Jerry got Williams at Garrett's request. At the time, Garrett wanted a second receiver to get the most out of his offense. I would say that Garrett should take a little heat for Williams. It was Jerry that went out and gave away the farm. Millen said in an interview that he believed he could have got more out of Jerry.
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The worst thing about that debacle was that Williams was on an expiring contract. After giving up the farm to get him, we then made him one of the highest paid receivers in the league. What made it even worse, is that guys like Boldin, Edwards, Holmes, Moss, and a few others I can't think of were traded for 3rd round or lower picks. Boggles the mind.
 
jnday said:
IIRC , Jerry got Williams at Garrett's request. At the time, Garrett wanted a second receiver to get the most out of his offense. I would say that Garrett should take a little heat for Williams. It was Jerry that went out and gave away the farm. Millen said in an interview that he believed he could have got more out of Jerry.
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Sure I could see Garrett or most offensive coordinators saying to their head coach, "Hey Roy Williams wants out of Detroit, last year he only played in 12 games and still had over 60 receptions for over 800 yards and 5 TD's... I'd love to have him in our offense."

It's not like Roy was a shlub. The guy has some talent.

The problem was the cost of acquiring him, and I don't blame Garrett for that. Jerry had one of his "must have" moments and took a hosing.

I don't blame Garrett for wanting another weapon.
 
Dodger12 said:
Any shortcomings or failures during Wade's tenure is as much on Garrett as it is on Wade. We had two head coaches during that time and we all knew it. Garrett bought into it as well and I don't think for a second he was a good soldier who had a clear chain of command through Wade. Well, it's quid pro quo for Mr. Garrett, only this time it's a D-line coach who has/had a louder voice then him on draft day.

And can you tell me who makes the decisions? I mean, we all know who makes the "final" decision, we've been reminded of that on an almost daily basis. But how do you know with any definitive sense that Garrett didn't have a say on the O-linemen, TE, WR's, etc. selected under him?
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I live within an hour and half of Buffalo... And got to see first hand the shortcomings of Wade Phillips.

And I was one of the most vocal on the board against the hire.

Wade Phillips was a flawed head coach before he set foot in Dallas.
 
CyberB0b said:
The worst thing about that debacle was that Williams was on an expiring contract. After giving up the farm to get him, we then made him one of the highest paid receivers in the league. What made it even worse, is that guys like Boldin, Edwards, Holmes, Moss, and a few others I can't think of were traded for 3rd round or lower picks. Boggles the mind.
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I agree.

One of Jerry's worst decisions.
 
MichaelWinicki said:
I live within an hour and half of Buffalo... And got to see first hand the shortcomings of Wade Phillips.

And I was one of the most vocal on the board against the hire.

Wade Phillips was a flawed head coach before he set foot in Dallas.
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I hated the Phillips hire. Despised it. My dislike of Garrett is not some tacit approval of Phillips. But I'm not blind to the fact that Garrett had a hand in the failures during the Wade tenure if anything because Jerry hired Wade for the very fact he'd accept a meddling owner and OC, hired before the HC, who was the heir apparent regardless of any success Wade would have.
 
Dodger12 said:
I hated the Phillips hire. Despised it. My dislike of Garrett is not some tacit approval of Phillips. But I'm not blind to the fact that Garrett had a hand in the failures during the Wade tenure if anything because Jerry hired Wade for the very fact he'd accept a meddling owner and OC, hired before the HC, who was the heir apparent regardless of any success Wade would have.
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I don't think would have mattered if it were Garrett, Norv, Sparano, you or I as the OC... Wade was going to go down, and go down hard eventually.
 
MichaelWinicki said:
I live within an hour and half of Buffalo... And got to see first hand the shortcomings of Wade Phillips.

And I was one of the most vocal on the board against the hire.

Wade Phillips was a flawed head coach before he set foot in Dallas.
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Wade just doesn't have it in him to be a good head coach, but neither does Garrett.
 
Dodger12 said:
I hated the Phillips hire. Despised it. My dislike of Garrett is not some tacit approval of Phillips. But I'm not blind to the fact that Garrett had a hand in the failures during the Wade tenure if anything because Jerry hired Wade for the very fact he'd accept a meddling owner and OC, hired before the HC, who was the heir apparent regardless of any success Wade would have.
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Are worlds colliding;)?
 
khiladi said:
And it's well known Wade wasn't even involved in offense in practices, Garrett having total control.
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why should he been involved? most teams are that way, that's why you have OC!!! only offensive minded coaches are deeply involved on the offense and vice versa and very few get involved on both sides....it wasn't anything new
\
but the no contact rule was wade.
 
WV Cowboy said:
He is a big part of the problem, .. yes.

Choosing coordinators before head coaches and not letting them be in on the decision to choose their coordinators, being the mouthpiece of the team, undermining the head coaches, challenging players in the media, saying Garrett is a coach in training.

That's just a few of the things that he does that are not condusive to building a strong franchise.
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I couldn't agree more. and he is still doing the same thing with Garrett. nothing has changed. and nothing will change.
 
visionary said:
of course jerry is the main bad influence on this franchise

having said this, jerry did not make garrett make poor in-game decisions, he also did not design a predictable offense where the defense can dictate whether you will pass or run based on their formation, the talk last pre-season was that kiffin was coming in because of his ties with garrett (of course the narrative changed once kiffin presided over a historically bad defense), i bet if we had fielded a top 5 defense, none of the garrett homies would be giving the credit to jerry, it would be all "garrett is building a team" stuff

so, yes jerry is to blame, but so is garrett

3 years into a supposed 3 year plan, we are still 8-8 and all i hear is that it will take more than one season to build the defense

so now we are on a 5-7 year plan
just moving the goalposts, that is all it is

garrett came into this HC position after being very familiar with the organization and having been the OC for 3 years. so he was very aware of jerry's meddling ways. so he has no excuse. as i said before, he is either a bad coach who makes poor plans/decisions/coaching hires or he is a spineless jelly fish that lets jerry walk all over him

neither is what i would want as HC for a team I am rooting for
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its not an excuse. its reality. I think as fans we are sick and tired of just blaming jerry. that will never change, so lets put everything on garrett. why? it gives us hope to have him fired because Jerry is not going anywhere. and the next coach brings hope. so did campo, so did gaily, so did parcells, so did wade. and it ended up all the same.

even bilicheck wouldn't find success here. that's the bottom line.
 
CowboysFaninDC said:
even bilicheck wouldn't find success here. that's the bottom line.
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It would take someone with a big pair, like belicheck who would come in, ignore Jerry and do things his way.

Jerry would hate it but if he were winning there is not a whole lot he could do about it without losing the fanbase.

That would be fun to watch play out.
 
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